Current Events > Some more news about Baldur's Gate 3 [Stealth and Combat]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Funkydog posted...

I just want to get excited over BG3 :(

Sorry we're temporarily banning excitement for the day. Please resume excitement tomorrow.

OlorinTheOtaku posted...

I mean flipping hell, that's outright embarrassing for 5e! Why does it have so few spells? Thanks to that, almost every Warlock just uses Eldritch Blast all the time. Same thing with Clerics and Toll the Dead.

This always struck me as a silly double standard. No one complains when an archer spams arrows from their Longbow, or a Rogue chooses Crossbow Expert and spams bolts.

Also, to answer the question portion of that: 5e is meant to be inviting for newcomers. It's purpose built to be rid of elitism and esoteric rules.

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PrideOfLion posted...

Unlimited cantrips is one of the best design choices ever. No more "ok so I've used all my spells for the day, good thing I have a crossbow"

Eldritch Blast!
Eldritch Blast!
Eldritch Blast!

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PrideOfLion posted...

Exactly. I'd rather the Warlock get to do Warlock things instead of having to switch to non-Warlock things.

Warkock is the only class that has this issue. Thanks for all the things you can do to make Eldritch Blast better, EVERYONE uses it.

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PrideOfLion posted...

Unlimited cantrips is one of the best design choices ever. No more "ok so I've used all my spells for the day, good thing I have a crossbow"

I like the Pillars of Eternity system because of that.

Spells and skills are per battle.

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Bad_Mojo posted...

Warkock is the only class that has this issue. Thanks for all the things you can do to make Eldritch Blast better, EVERYONE uses it.

Warlocks are limited in their spell slot selection and almost no one takes short-rests like they're supposed to, so that's what they're left with
The feat 'Pole-Arm Master" makes them so much better than pretty much any other weapon
Rapiers are the best dex weapon
Etc.

5E has all kinds of things that end up limiting choices unless you willingly take a downgrade, this isn't a bad thing

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DrizztLink posted...

I like the Pillars of Eternity system because of that.

Spells and skills are per battle

To be clear for any reader this is only in Pillars of eternity 2. I agree that the system is great.

BGII is fucking awesome. Shame, NVW 1 and 2 isn't any good. Pathfinder is good but, holy balls is it harder then Baldurs Gate and way more complex.

JE19426 posted...

To be clear for any reader this is only in Pillars of eternity 2. I agree that the system is great.

It's been a while since I played 1, didn't remember it was different.

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How do you all feel about Divinity Original Sin II?
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Antifar posted...

How do you all feel about Divinity Original Sin II?

I didn't like it. Too much randomness in both the available loot, and the store inventory.

Bad_Mojo posted...

Oh yeah, there are so many options in BG3. If you watch any of the demo videos you'll see just how many options there are, and this is coming from someone that really enjoyed DOS2.

I'm even excited that we can zoom in and actually see our character

It does seem like there are going to be a lot of options for characters in and out of combat, which has me excited despite how I feel about the source material.

I'm looking forward to the game. I hope they add Dragonborn to the race list.

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Warlocks are limited in their spell slot selection and almost no one takes short-rests like they're supposed to, so that's what they're left with
The feat 'Pole-Arm Master" makes them so much better than pretty much any other weapon
Rapiers are the best dex weapon
Etc.

5E has all kinds of things that end up limiting choices unless you willingly take a downgrade, this isn't a bad thing

LOL, I can't tell if this post is supposed to be satire or not. It really hits the nail on the head, though.

"5e, the system where you either play as a buffed up, min-maxed character who does the same damn thing every round - or you deliberately gimp your character just so that the game can have a semblance of variety and challenge."

This always struck me as a silly double standard. No one complains when an archer spams arrows from their Longbow, or a Rogue chooses Crossbow Expert and spams bolts.

I don't know about you, but yes, I'd definitely complain if the best thing my archer could do was just make a standard attack each round, which is exactly what Eldritch Blast users seem to always do. At the very least, if I'm having to use a bow all the time, I at least would try called shots or something to make it interesting.

Also, arrows are limited, Eldritch Blast isn't. Right off the bat, that fact alone means that arrows are going to be inherently more tactically interesting to use. Using Eldritch Blast is just playing the game using an infinite ammo cheat code.
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You sure you don't want to stick around on CE?

With all the bitching, whining, and the undeserved superiority complex, you fit right in.

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PrideOfLion posted...

Unlimited cantrips is one of the best design choices ever. No more "ok so I've used all my spells for the day, good thing I have a crossbow"

One of the best things they introduced in 4e. I'm a level 12 wizard, and I have 5 level 1 spells? Fuck that noise. I should be powerful enough to have unlimited magic missiles and ray of frosts. They aren't that magically intensive, and growing in level should mean that your lower level casting becomes more efficient.

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Unlimited Magic Missiles? ... Good grief. As if being a level 12 Wizard wasn't already jacked up enough.

If you had infinite Magic Missile, why would you ever cast any other spell? The game would be so boring.
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You sure you don't want to stick around on CE?
With all the bitching, whining, and the undeserved superiority complex, you fit right in.

Hey hey, now, settle down.
I was personally invited here by the TC.
I do believe that makes my superiority complex quite deserved.

Yuk yuk yuk.

Also, I'm still waiting for someone to be triggered by my AMP count. Only then will my journey into this forbidden land be completed. I've gotta get the full CE experience, or I'm leaving a bad review on Yelp.
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OlorinTheOtaku posted...

Unlimited Magic Missiles? ... Good grief. As if being a level 12 Wizard wasn't already jacked up enough.

If you had infinite Magic Missile, why would you ever cast any other spell? The game would be so boring.

There is more to do in the game than fight.

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Balnazarr posted...

BGII is fucking awesome. Shame, NVW 1 and 2 isn't any good. Pathfinder is good but, holy balls is it harder then Baldurs Gate and way more complex.

NWN1 is great for all the mods others made. Some wonderful stuff there to enjoy

NWN2 is good for the Mask of the Betrayer DLC which is some utterly top notch roleplay loveliness. Rashemen, Thayvians and more!

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Alucard188 posted...

There is more to do in the game than fight.

I'm not sure what you can use MM for other than blasting dudes.

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DrizztLink posted...

I'm not sure what you can use MM for other than blasting dudes.

Yes, but he was talking about the game being boring. DMs have control over the content, as do players. If the game becomes stale, modify it.

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If you don't like fighting, or dungeon crawling, why are you playing a system where 99% of character abilities are tied directly to fighting or dungeon crawling?

Why not play something like FATE, or GURPS?
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OlorinTheOtaku posted...

If you don't like fighting, or dungeon crawling, why are you playing a system where 99% of character abilities are tied directly to fighting or dungeon crawling?

Those are two facets to a very multi sided die. I'm not adverse to fights or dungeons, but the game needs more than just that for it to be engaging.

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Hinakuluiau posted...

Warlocks are limited in their spell slot selection and almost no one takes short-rests like they're supposed to, so that's what they're left with

Yeah, Warlocks MUST make the most out of their Invocations, it's the balancing factor compared to full casters. And yeah, a high level Warlock at Tier 4 is looking at 4D10+20 if all of their blasts hit from Eldritch Blast. So their limited spell slots are meant for other things besides damage dealing spells.

On the topic of not taking Short Rests, meals are supposed to be a thing. To that end the overall limit in BG3 of 2 short rests per long rest is a nice balance.

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OlorinTheOtaku posted...

Also, arrows are limited, Eldritch Blast isn't.

Arrows are limited...That's your reasoning? It's 1gp for a quiver of 20 arrows, and IIRC their weight is minimal. You could spend 5gp to dump 100 arrows into a backpack. Barring Fighters, most classes aren't going to be shooting more than 2 arrows in a standard round. So a single quiver lasts 10 rounds of combat. Afterward, all but the most asinine of DMs will assume that you replenish the quiver after the fight.

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Arrows are limited...That's your reasoning? It's 1gp for a quiver of 20 arrows, and IIRC their weight is minimal.

You give your players infinite gold? If not, then yes, arrows are in fact limited.

You could spend 5gp to dump 100 arrows into a backpack.

That shouldn't fit. At most, you should only be able to have three quivers equipped at a time, but even that's a bit of a stretch and assuming the character isn't carrying much else.

Maybe you could have a hireling carrying around extra ammo like a golf caddy.

Afterward, all but the most asinine of DMs will assume that you replenish the quiver after the fight.

5e's rules clearly state that you can only recover half the arrows you shoot, if you spend a minute after the battle gathering them up.
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Ah, so you are yourself arguing from a place of asininity. You might as well argue that arrows are limited because the number of trees in the world are limited at any given time, that one person would die before they could cut down those trees, etc.

From a functional standpoint though, any half decent DM isn't going to sweat the particulars so long as some upkeep is given between adventures. Also, any DM that makes 5gp a rare amount of income is by default a terrible DM.

Anyway, you can in fact carry 100 arrows, easily done with a quiver on either side of a small pack and remaining 60 arrows in the pack itself. That's before you consider any sort of magically enhanced pack, of which D&D has multiple types. So with 40 arrows you have 20 rounds of combat, assuming 2 arrows fired per round, before even needing to consider recovering ammo or pulling some out of the pack.

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Ah, so you are yourself arguing from a place of asininity.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just quoting 5e's rules.

But how is it "asinine" to say an archer can't just infinitely reuse the same arrows?

Also, any DM that makes 5gp a rare amount of income is by default a terrible DM.

I never said arrows are rare, I said they're limited, as opposed to Eldritch Blast, which is literally unlimited and self-reloading.
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You might as well argue that arrows are limited because the number of trees in the world are limited at any given time, that one person would die before they could cut down those trees, etc.

You seriously arguing that it should be just as likely for your archer to simply run out of arrows in their quiver as it is for all arrows in the world to suddenly not exist?

And you say I'm being asinine...
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100 arrows is more than enough for a typical adventuring day. Unless you are running some survival heavy game where shopping is difficult or impossible, you are not going to run out and ammo is a non issue. In a game where shopping is a non issue, 20 arrows is enough for a typical adventuring day. Fights don't last very long and most DMs don't give a lot of fights so running out of ammo is usually a non issue.

OlorinTheOtaku posted...

Also, I'm still waiting for someone to be triggered by my AMP count. Only then will my journey into this forbidden land be completed. I've gotta get the full CE experience, or I'm leaving a bad review on Yelp.

I am offended by the LACK of amp.

So how about that BG3 stealth eh? eh?

Looks like darkvision plays a role, so can't hide in shadows from enemies with it.

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OlorinTheOtaku posted...

You seriously arguing that it should be just as likely for your archer to simply run out of arrows in their quiver as it is for all arrows in the world to suddenly not exist?

Specifically, as I stated previously, from a FUNCTIONAL STANDPOINT arrows might as well be unlimited.

You're interested in splitting the thinnest of hairs for matters that simply do not matter in the slightest 99.9% of the time.

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Funkydog posted...

So how about that BG3 stealth eh? eh?

Looks like darkvision plays a role, so can't hide in shadows from enemies with it.

I like how you can turn turn based on outside of combat so you can sneak around and set things up.

Really happy darkness plays a role in this game

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Mmm, Ive been replaying PoE just in anticipation. I truly cant tell what edition I like more tbh >_>

Then again, Ive never played TT.. just the CRPGs. I just know for a kid who didnt have online as a youngin it was fantastic to have a group you could control. I think that attracted me to the genre more than anything else. I was terrified of the titel/opening video of Sarevok mercing up that dude in the tower in BG1.

Do people like, play battle music and ambience when doing TT? I feel like that would be awesome lol I should look up a group on FB to join sometime..

playing a DnD video game can let you fulfull the fantasy of all the party members paying attention and knowing how to play

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RedJackson posted...

Do people like, play battle music and ambience when doing TT?

It's pretty easy to do. Heck, people have put up hundreds of hours of music onto Youtube for that purpose, categorized by type. Other folks just use OSTs from various games; like Skyrim or The Witcher 3.

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playing a DnD video game can let you fulfull the fantasy of all the party members paying attention and knowing how to play

Same can be said about playing a TTRPG solo.

And that way, you get to use the full amount of content from the entire game line, plus homebrew, and have any sort of campaign you want, instead of only being able to play with whatever the video game developers managed to code into the game.
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RedJackson posted...

Do people like, play battle music and ambience when doing TT?

Some do. I had one group where the GM just had a mix of music from games like NWN and BG and so on. It worked pretty well. Every once in a while he'd throw in something like the Indiana Jones soundtrack while we were in ancient ruins.

Overall, I'm a fan of ambience music during sessions. A bit in the background is enough - not too loud but also reduces the sounds from outside, for example. So, it helps the atmosphere and it serves to reduce distractions or annoyances.

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