Current Events > Fighting and restricting automation because it takes jobs is regressive.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Society would be far better if it adjusted to automation. UBI, a focus on better jobs rather than more will lead to a far better world for the future.

nooooooooooo I need my coal

Machines will take the heavy load of the labor (figuratively and literally), and we fix the machines when something goes wrong.

---

I've seen what it does. Did you not learn anything from Yevon's teachings?

---

Crono99 posted...

This kind of changes creates huge amounts of poverty for some time though. It's what happened (though it was much worse back then) at the time of the industrial revolution. Incidentally, it was the industrial revolution that inspired Marx and communism.

So can we prepare for that knowing what's coming will be recoverable and will be better on the way out?

UBI, or at least extension of unemployment funded by taxing the companies opting into automation more heavily for the time being, would be good.

Crono99 posted...

This kind of changes creates huge amounts of poverty for some time though. It's what happened (though it was much worse back then) at the time of the industrial revolution. Incidentally, it was the industrial revolution that inspired Marx and communism.

Increased automation is cause for concern, but I am also curious about the potential for new jobs that could be created. It seems to be inevitable whenever new tech makes its way off the drawing board and into our lives.

---

Its the lack of solution for the "takes jobs" part thats troubling, and try as you might to deny it those pushing hardest for automation have zero concern for this issue.

Automation is the inevitable answer to a further growing population (as no amount of human labor could keep up with the needs of a population 4 or 5x our current numbers), but in doing so you also have to address how people will actually live. Not everybody can fix robots or code.

---

DuranOfForcena posted...

taxing companies to fund social programs is a form of restriction.

That's fair, though to be clear I would want a tax that still makes automation more profitable, which shouldn't be hard if they embrace it fully.

Crono99 posted...

This kind of changes creates huge amounts of poverty for some time though. It's what happened (though it was much worse back then) at the time of the industrial revolution. Incidentally, it was the industrial revolution that inspired Marx and communism.

Will it? There are costs to automation and not every job can be automated or automated easily.

---

tbh even if taxed automation makes businesses the exact same amount they would have made with human workers, wouldn't it be worth it for them to switch to automation so they don't have to deal with people anymore?

---

CommonJoe posted...

Its the lack of solution for the "takes jobs" part thats troubling, and try as you might to deny it those pushing hardest for automation have zero concern for this issue.

Automation is the inevitable answer to a further growing population (as no amount of human labor could keep up with the needs of a population 4 or 5x our current numbers), but in doing so you also have to address how people will actually live. Not everybody can fix robots or code.

I honestly think UBI would be the best solution. We aren't going to get enough jobs for everyone, but rather give people the financial backing to either live a very basic life(I don't think UBI should cover much more than housing, food, and other basic necessities) or give them the breathing room to create their own income. We're at a point where selling yourself and your own work is easier than it's ever been, I'd love to encourage more and more of that.

Damn_Underscore posted...

tbh even if taxed automation makes businesses the exact same amount they would have made with human workers, wouldn't it be worth it for them to switch to automation so they don't have to deal with people anymore?

Maybe. Automation comes with its own ups and downs, and some will opt to keep. But it should be taxed so heavily that there's no financial bonus. I'd actually prefer the Financial aspect for using automation be enough to convince any large company to do it.

There are a lot of issues with implementing automation.

Prices won't go down, companies will just make more. This can already be observed with self checkout lanes.

Unemployment will rise, which in turn means crime could rise.

Companies hold it over our heads that if we fight for $15 they'll just implement automation faster. They're already doing it as fast as they can, they just have a scapegoat that the DDIQs fall for.

The idea behind automation is that it's "supposed to make our lives easier" but can anyone honestly say that's happening?

---

Villain posted...

The idea behind automation is that it's "supposed to make our lives easier" but can anyone honestly say that's happening?

Not having to rely on an actual person to take my taco bell order has been pretty based

---

Socialism does not tow party lines and automation isn't worth the mass displacement of workers.
---

"Can't we just... start a new war to get rid of the poor people?"

---

RadiantAdolin posted...

Automation comes with its own ups and downs, and some will opt to keep. But it should be taxed so heavily that there's no financial bonus. I'd actually prefer the Financial aspect for using automation be enough to convince any large company to do it.

Businesses will either move away or theyll find some other ways to cut costs or up their revenue. Their solutions probably wont be ideal for everyone.

---

CommonJoe posted...

Not having to rely on an actual person to take my taco bell order has been pretty based

I was never a fan of self check out and self serve touch screens in the first place but in light of the pandemic I honestly think they need to go for health reasons.

---

Villain posted...

The idea behind automation is that it's "supposed to make our lives easier" but can anyone honestly say that's happening?

Right now it isn't, but my idea isn't pushing the "automation will make life easier" angle, but that a proper response to it definitely could. IE, we'd be better in a society adjusted to automation than in a society without automation.

Villain posted...

I was never a fan of self check out and self serve touch screens in the first place but in light of the pandemic I honestly think they need to go for health reasons.

Are they more dangerous than a human cashier?

Those employees generally deal with huge numbers of customers and have to touch money and products.

---

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Are they more dangerous than a human cashier?

Those employees generally deal with huge numbers of customers and have to touch money and products.

That's why they advise you wash your hands before eating and don't touch your face.

RadiantAdolin posted...

That's why they advise you wash your hands before eating and don't touch your face.

Yeah, it took a while to get used to, but its second nature now.

---

yes what we as a society with absolutely insane income inequality need is fewer options for low income workers and increased profit margins for mega rich ceos who will then surely "pass the savings on to the consumer "

---

Butterfiles posted...

yes what we as a society with absolutely insane income inequality need is fewer options for low income workers and increased profit margins for mega rich ceos who will then surely "pass the savings on to the consumer "

We force them to pass the savings on. Don't just rely on their generosity, do your job as a government and create the framework it happens through.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Are they more dangerous than a human cashier?

Those employees generally deal with huge numbers of customers and have to touch money and products.

All it takes is one anti masker who doesn't wash their hands regularly to touch the screens

---

Villain posted...

All it takes is one anti masker who doesn't wash their hands regularly to touch the screens

I will admit I went to a Home Depot and felt real uncomfortable using their handheld scanner at the self-check out station. Pretty sure I used a cup of hand sanitizer after, then washed for a minute when I got home. Im exaggerating, but not by much.

---

Villain posted...

All it takes is one anti masker who doesn't wash their hands regularly to touch the screens

The reason why I always keep my hands clean, long before COVID-19. Anytime I touch something that I don't know for a fact other people touched, I wash my hands. Door knob, elevator button, pen, touch screen, chair handle, dining table.

Sadly, a lot of people think that wearing a pair of gloves means they are fine, but the cross contamination that happens when they start wiping their nose, touching their phone, messing with their hair... no critical thinking or common sense.

---

RadiantAdolin posted...

We force them to pass the savings on. Don't just rely on their generosity, do your job as a government and create the framework it happens through.

How do we do that when it's clear that unlimited legal power is the key to getting what you want? They'll have an unlimited dream team of corporate lawyers smashing anyone who dares oppose them, even government entities, and wait them out until their resources are depleted.

---

Even if it does create jobs, its probably not going to create jobs in the same places and for the same people who's job it killed. A lot of people are going to get fucked over even if it balances out in the long run. Which there's no guarantee that'll happen.

---

I will probably never use self checkout or public touch order kiosks ever again. I don't care if I'm waiting in line an extra 5 minutes

---

I disagree with TC. I really f'n hate technology taking jobs from people. Let's face it, there are people in this world that are not that smart with things, but they still need jobs

---

Bad_Mojo posted...

I disagree with TC. I really f'n hate technology taking jobs from people. Let's face it, there are people in this world that are not that smart with things, but they still need jobs

There will still be jobs. Mind, those people will be cared for by taxing the excess earnings from automation to create at least a basic form of UBI. And there will still be plenty of jobs, especially in the long run where UBI makes starting your own business much more reasonable and those new businesses start to hire workers.

Proudclad topic

---

Bad_Mojo posted...

I disagree with TC. I really f'n hate technology taking jobs from people. Let's face it, there are people in this world that are not that smart with things, but they still need jobs

It's crazy to think that a utility clerk should suddenly learn complex coding or machinery since those jobs will "be in demand" as automation rolls out.

That isn't a knock to utility clerks, it's not not a realistic assessment to the situation.

---

I'm resisting automation because our current infrastructure isn't equipped to deal with the influx of people who had their jobs made redundant. The idiots in charge are far too interested in making money for themselves and their shareholders than looking after the people who make their products.

---

Everything should be as automated as possible

---

Irony posted...

Proudclad topic

I'm not proudclad, eww, and would proudclad ever support UBI?

RadiantAdolin posted...

proudclad ever support UBI?

yeah

Reis posted...

yeah

Really? That legit surprises me, but I didn't really know him I guess.

Which is why i work in automation

---

Villain posted...

I was never a fan of self check out and self serve touch screens in the first place but in light of the pandemic I honestly think they need to go for health reasons.

I sometimes don't do self checkout at grocery stores when I have a large amount of items, and I regret it every time due to either rude cashiers (uncommon) or fucking old people faffing about and adding 10+ minutes to your checkout time (LITERALLY EVERY TIME).

---

Automation will eventually take every conceivable job you could have as a human. The corporate hierarchy would offer little protection in the face of advanced AI making decisions on such a level that no meat brain could never hope to compete. How does life continue when its purpose is obsolete? This isn't as simple as we evolve and everyone ever has whatever they need and paradise is achieved, it's a real and dangerous unknown as to how intelligent species respond to those conditions.

---

EnragedSlith posted...

Automation will eventually take every conceivable job you could have as a human.

loooool no

Yeah it's a fatal flaw for sure, but we aren't even close to that yet. The hope is jobs will be more specialized, you won't have to work 40 hours a week because there isn't a need for human labor...I think it's best to let it happen in a free market rather than a totalitarian government pick and choose who gets what when.

I'm not saying that some of the wealth isn't being spread fairly, but then again we in 2020 have better lives than anyone on the history of planet Earth, ever. There is human progress for sure.

---

Crono99 posted...

This kind of changes creates huge amounts of poverty for some time though. It's what happened (though it was much worse back then) at the time of the industrial revolution. Incidentally, it was the industrial revolution that inspired Marx and communism.

booooooo

---

https://youtu.be/toL1tXrLA1c

---

All we need is computer programmers the rest of the jobs can get fucked!

---

VIIVincent posted...

I've seen what it does. Did you not learn anything from Yevon's teachings?

I lol'd

---