Current Events > How is George Floyd's death not first degree murder? explain it to me please

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isn't first degree murder when you have clear intent to kill? that cop had plenty of time to take his knee away from George's neck. he kept it there for 8 and a half minutes. while a crowd of people were telling him that George was going to die. he didn't care. by willfully keeping his knee there for that long and ignoring the crowd's warnings, he proved, IMO that he had intent to kill. whether before he ever bumped into him or after the encounter began, at some point he made the decision to kill George Floyd. it should be First Degree Murder

and apparently the Floyd family believes it was First Degree as well.

Crono99 posted...

Doesn't first degree murder require premeditation? Like, he actually followed Floyd around in order to kill him and the arrest was just an excuse to kill him?

Isn't their story of George and the cop used to work in the same club or something.

It is first degree murder, which requires premeditation.

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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/78743303

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It is first degree. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise


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First degree murder requires planning in advance before the killing is carried out.

Second Degree murder only requires intent to kill or that the murder was the result of recklessness.

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xmenhavok posted...

Isn't their story of George and the cop used to work in the same club or something.

Next step would be them having to develop a motive. If there is no motive, despite them working together, I'm not sure they can classify it as premeditated.

You don't need prior planning for first degree. As long as he made the active conscious decision to kill, and it's obvious he did. Then it is first degree murder

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because the police union is strong

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2nd degree murder should come with additional penalties, on the basis of it being a fucking cop.

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I'm versed in law very well. Technically it's only 3rd degree if we're going by the book. To make it a 2nd degree is splitting hairs, the 2nd degree choice was only thrown in to keep people happy because of the massive media attention, which is very wrong. As officials themselves pointed out it's only 3rd degree, they changed their mind later because they were probably getting hammered by emotional people. If this did not have media, it would be 3rd degree with alarming precedent, nowhere near 2nd degree. But people speak with emotion instead of textbook. Because they are emotionally upset, they want the suspect in this case to receive the highest penalty, which again; it doesn't work like that... Even though I obviously disagree with the suspect, and am glad that he is being prosecuted, you cannot charge him more than what physically happened.

Why is it not 1st or 2nd degree? You have to use textbook, like a courtroom. I know almost nobody on the internet understands that so I'lll break a few details down. The suspect didn't wake up with intent to kill the victim. There is nothing to suggest that he wanted the victim to be dead... It was an accident. In court, we cut roots we do not rake leaves. Why did the accident occur? The victim was not compliant. It sucks to hear it, but he was moving around and did not obey the officers command. If he peacefully entered the police vehicle and did what he was instructed to do, the officer would not have used force. Because force was used, the officer got carried away and an accident occurred. Now you understand lawfully where we are splitting hairs. These 2 men arent enemies.. One didn't comply with the officer in a calm manner, the other tried doing his job and was impatient. Honestly I think it was the drugs. The victim was supposedly on drugs, so he couldn't be calm and act rationally. It's sad. This is why this is a good lesson to learn. If police ask you to do something politely, don't be an asshole, just do it. You could accidentally cause a situation that escalates way further than you can imagine.

There were multiple officers to backup the claim that the victim did not follow initial instructions. That is all it takes for leverage to be shifted. The Law REALLLLYYYYYY does not like those that do not listen, they instigate problematic situations. How many cops have been gunned down by a person who doesn't want to show his hands? Many. How many people have been shot by cops, because they wouldn't show their hands even though they did not have a weapon? Many... You see how idiotic that is? Just show him your hands if he asked you. Watching things like this in court hundreds of times starts to just enrage you. Listen to the officer and 95% of these cases would be avoided.

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^TC, this user went into Jeff's NYC march topic and said that jeff and the other protesters deserved to be beaten

zinezinzadan posted...

So you stayed outside even though it was against the law? Then you are angry because you got beat? Thats the definition of ignorance. The curfew is there for a reason. Its reason is to stop the VIOLENT riots that happen right after your peaceful protest. Those violent riots have caused damage to those close to me, quit being an ASSHOLE.

He also posted this:

zinezinzadan posted...

Yes, when that curfew is fighting another pressing matter. To ignore the Vandalism, Murder, and harassment that is happening after the protest is ignorant. The violence after the protest has done nothing but divide the races against each other. Latinos are hunting African Americans now, and whites who were not racist, have a very high probability of becoming racist. Everything this movement set out to do, it just shot itself back 80 years in history. Congratulations.

Normally I wouldn't say anything, but the fact that it's an old account and a long post might have lent credence to it if you didn't already know who he was

By the way, both of those posts of his are still up

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First degree murder is premeditated i.e. going into a situation with intent to kill. There was a news story a while ago about an intruder who broke into a guy's house and took a shower. The owner of said house left and came back with a gun and shot them dead. That's first degree murder. Second degree murder is killing with intent to kill, but without premeditation i.e. killing someone in a bar fight.

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Because the Minneapolis police are actually trained to use restraint by the neck, and there was no premeditation from the cop of "Oh I think I'm gonna murder this guy" for even a minute, he was just a fucking idiot who didn't adjust his technique when the man couldn't breathe.

We don't want a first degree charge, 99% chance he would walk away free if the charge was first degree.

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Yes that cop should get life without parole

zinezinzadan posted...

If this did not have media, it would be 3rd degree with alarming precedent,

If this did not have media, it would be suspended with pay. Which is kinda a big part of the problem.

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Diogeknees posted...

^TC, this user went into Jeff's NYC march topic and said that jeff and the other protesters deserved to be beaten

He also posted this:

Normally I wouldn't say anything, but the fact that it's an old account and a long post might have lent credence to it if you didn't already know who he was

By the way, both of those posts of his are still up

thanks

You want him to get off the charges by going for first degree? Cops never know what's waiting for them at the end of every call. People succeed in getting the charges brought up and up are going to be the reason the guy is acquitted, watch.

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Diogeknees posted...

^TC, this user went into Jeff's NYC march topic and said that jeff and the other protesters deserved to be beaten

Well that is a lie. I laughed out loud and didn't bother to read the rest of your post after that trolling.


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I think you have to pre-plan on killing them

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KillerKhan420 posted...

You want him to get off the charges by going for first degree? Cops never know what's waiting for them at the end of every call. People succeed in getting the charges brought up and up are going to be the reason the guy is acquitted, watch.

So you're saying the intent wasn't to kill him by leaving his fucking knee on his neck for 8 minutes?

He was just restraining him for the fun of it?

cmiller4642 posted...

So you're saying the intent wasn't to kill him by leaving his fucking knee on his neck for 8 minutes?

He was just restraining him for the fun of it?

The court doesn't see it that way. The court wants to know why the victim didn't follow initial instructions of complying with the officers when they first arrived on the scene, long before it ever became physical. I don't make laws, but everyone should follow them to protect themselves.

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zinezinzadan posted...

The court doesn't see it that way. The court wants to know why the victim didn't follow initial instructions of complying with the officers when they first arrived on the scene, long before it ever became physical. I don't make laws, but everyone should follow them to protect themselves.

So if you disobey a cop's initial orders and then decide to comply when they begin to use force that's a death sentence?

cmiller4642 posted...

So if you disobey a cop's initial orders and then decide to comply when they begin to use force that's a death sentence?

you are arguing with someone who only wants to gaslight

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Diogeknees posted...

you are arguing with someone who only wants to gaslight

No, I'm trying to educate you on how the real world works. Who makes the laws and chooses punishment? The court. Who is on the side of the court? The police... So the court looks after the police. Do you understand that many police officers have been killed by uncompliant individuals? So guess what the courts did? Gave cops a pass on uncompliant people. It's not rocket science. You can bitch about it all you want, just like the guy Jeff who disobeyed the curfew order. But I'm telling you it's in your best interest to do as you're fucking told, those cops also have a family and just want to go home. I'm not on the cops side, but I understand the system.

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zinezinzadan posted...

Who makes the laws and chooses punishment? The court

you might want to take middle school social studies again.

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zinezinzadan posted...

I'm versed in law very well. Technically it's only 3rd degree if we're going by the book. To make it a 2nd degree is splitting hairs, the 2nd degree choice was only thrown in to keep people happy because of the massive media attention, which is very wrong. As officials themselves pointed out it's only 3rd degree, they changed their mind later because they were probably getting hammered by emotional people. If this did not have media, it would be 3rd degree with alarming precedent, nowhere near 2nd degree. But people speak with emotion instead of textbook. Because they are emotionally upset, they want the suspect in this case to receive the highest penalty, which again; it doesn't work like that... Even though I obviously disagree with the suspect, and am glad that he is being prosecuted, you cannot charge him more than what physically happened.

Why is it not 1st or 2nd degree? You have to use textbook, like a courtroom. I know almost nobody on the internet understands that so I'lll break a few details down. The suspect didn't wake up with intent to kill the victim. There is nothing to suggest that he wanted the victim to be dead... It was an accident. In court, we cut roots we do not rake leaves. Why did the accident occur? The victim was not compliant. It sucks to hear it, but he was moving around and did not obey the officers command. If he peacefully entered the police vehicle and did what he was instructed to do, the officer would not have used force. Because force was used, the officer got carried away and an accident occurred. Now you understand lawfully where we are splitting hairs. These 2 men arent enemies.. One didn't comply with the officer in a calm manner, the other tried doing his job and was impatient. Honestly I think it was the drugs. The victim was supposedly on drugs, so he couldn't be calm and act rationally. It's sad. This is why this is a good lesson to learn. If police ask you to do something politely, don't be an asshole, just do it. You could accidentally cause a situation that escalates way further than you can imagine.

There were multiple officers to backup the claim that the victim did not follow initial instructions. That is all it takes for leverage to be shifted. The Law REALLLLYYYYYY does not like those that do not listen, they instigate problematic situations. How many cops have been gunned down by a person who doesn't want to show his hands? Many. How many people have been shot by cops, because they wouldn't show their hands even though they did not have a weapon? Many... You see how idiotic that is? Just show him your hands if he asked you. Watching things like this in court hundreds of times starts to just enrage you. Listen to the officer and 95% of these cases would be avoided.

Thats all well and good, but You have to remember, the cop that killed him had a record... or would have had he not been a cop. He was involved in multiple acts of power abuse. If I recall correctly, he was even involved in a shooting.

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Dyinglegacy posted...

Thats all well and good, but You have to remember, the cop that killed him had a record... or would have had he not been a cop. He was involved in multiple acts of power abuse. If I recall correctly, he was even involved in a shooting.

They're definitely using his prior record. That is how they were able to squeeze 2nd degree. But I disagree with it because he can now get acquitted easier with 2nd degree. It's BS and only an idiot would have given him 2nd. The court knew what it was doing, he was guaranteed jail time on 3rd degree. But because people have their panties in a bunch and complained, now the suspect is 2nd degree, and Mark my words there is a damn good chance he won't serve jail time now. Idiotic. I've seen hundreds of these cases so I already know where it's going. He was guaranteed jail at 3rd degree and I was so happy.. Until idiots ruined it. If he escapes jail, watch the protests now. 10x deadlier.

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I just read another post by you in another topic stating he's definitively going to jail, but now he probably won't?

And how do you know about all this? You a laser?


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Dyinglegacy posted...

I just read another post by you in another topic stating he's definitively going to jail, but now he probably won't?

And how do you know about all this? You a laser?

If you learned to read you would understand that yes, I firmly believe charges will be dropped to 3rd degree and he is going to jail with his original prosecution. It's only the 2nd degree resurgence where things get weird and there is chance of him escaping. I know this because of my job. Yet there are people on here who probably haven't even finished school and want to argue with me when I tell them how real life is operating, They get mad. I don't make the law..

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Dyinglegacy posted...

I just read another post by you in another topic stating he's definitively going to jail, but now he probably won't?

And how do you know about all this? You a laser?

He just understands if it goes higher with the charges he has more likelihood of getting off.

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cmiller4642 posted...

So if you disobey a cop's initial orders and then decide to comply when they begin to use force that's a death sentence?

A lot of people will never understand this.

"He shouldn't have done so and so, then he'd be alive". It's disgusting and a lot of conservatives have been using this rhetoric for years on CE.

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