Current Events > Do you think the world would be better off without religion?

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The kindest people I've ever known are religious.

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Fuck.

No.

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It's a double edged sword.

In one way you can argue religion has halted some scientific progress, but on the other hand, if there were no religion, people wouldn't have as much of a moral compass. Crimes would be even more plentiful and a lot of people would cease being decent human beings.

We need religion.

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Squall28 posted...

The kindest people I've ever known are religious.

The worst people I've known have been religious.

religion was a net benefit (though not by much) purely just because of how much it helped communities to form

but in the current era? I'm inclined to believe so. If all memories of religion just wiped out of our minds, then yeah I think this world would be better overall.

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We would still be in the dark ages if not for religion.

Unlike now, historically science and religion went hand in hand, and without one another they would have not had the financial backing to ever explore or discover.

Some of the greatest things in the world have came from multiple religions, yes there have been a lot of wars waged because of religion, but I don't think it outweighs the good it has done overall

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garlic powder posted...

if there were no religion, people wouldn't have as much of a moral compass. Crimes would be even more plentiful and a lot of people would cease being decent human beings.

I'm sure there is a lot of evidence to the contrary of everything you said here.

garlic powder posted...

It's a double edged sword.

In one way you can argue religion has halted some scientific progress, but on the other hand, if there were no religion, people wouldn't have as much of a moral compass. Crimes would be even more plentiful and a lot of people would cease being decent human beings.

We need religion.

why do you need religion to tell you that stuff?

Both Christianity and Judaism believe in the ten commandments, which, are mostly good rules to follow.

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Ic3Bullet posted...

The worst people I've known have been religious.

Story time?

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CwebbMichSac4 posted...

why do you need religion to tell you that stuff?

because if a person believes they will be responsible for their actions in this life, they're less likely to do horrible things. Also, many people that are currently incarcerated turn to religion and it has helped them become better people.


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religion provided useful measures of social stability long ago

but today we can get that from entertainment easily enough.

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garlic powder posted...

It's a double edged sword.

In one way you can argue religion has halted some scientific progress, but on the other hand, if there were no religion, people wouldn't have as much of a moral compass. Crimes would be even more plentiful and a lot of people would cease being decent human beings.

We need religion.

Actually the amount of people in prison who identify as atheist is like 0.25% of the prison population. People who identify as Christian who are in prison make up like ~80%. I've done the math on this several times and basically self-identifying Christians occupy prisons by a factor of 40x more per capita. That's, of course, because poverty breeds crime, as well as less education. Less educated people believe in religion....why? Because the less educated you are, the dumber you are, generally speaking.

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@garlic_powder also, you don't need religion for morality. There are things like empathy, the golden rule, philosophy, and logic that guide people. Animals can have moral codes. Animals are gay too, despite what religious folks might tell us about where our genitals are supposed to go.

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if you need religion to be a good person, then you aren't a good person

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8-bit_Biceps posted...

Actually the amount of people in prison who identify as atheist is like 0.25% of the prison population. People who identify as Christian who are in prison make up like ~80%. I've done the math on this several times and basically self-identifying Christians occupy prisons by a factor of 40x more per capita. That's, of course, because poverty breeds crime, as well as less education. Less educated people believe in religion....why? Because the less educated you are, the dumber you are, generally speaking.

and how many of those people that identify as Christian became Christian AFTER being incarcerated? You got the numbers on that one???

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8-bit_Biceps posted...

@garlic_powder also, you don't need religion for morality. There are things like empathy, the golden rule, philosophy, and logic that guide people. Animals can have moral codes. Animals are gay too, despite what religious folks might tell us about where our genitals are supposed to go.

Of course religion isn't required to be a decent human being. It doesn't hurt having it for some people who may rely on it though.

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fuck religion

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Squall28 posted...

The kindest people I've ever known are religious.

the most homophobic and judgemental people i know are religious

Neither better nor worse, I think there's ample evidence that people will create other sorts of belief systems and sort themselves into tribes even without religion per se

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garlic powder posted...

It's a double edged sword.

In one way you can argue religion has halted some scientific progress, but on the other hand, if there were no religion, people wouldn't have as much of a moral compass. Crimes would be even more plentiful and a lot of people would cease being decent human beings.

We need religion.

Ah yes universal morality must not exist. We need big daddy to direct our thoughts and guide our hand. How would I have ever known kicking a puppy was bad until my holy book told me the way.

the conventional modern notion of religion blinds us to the fact that eliminating existing religious systems would just give rise to new ones, as they are a byproduct of the human condition itself

religion even exists within secular societies - but if you tell them their system of beliefs and norms is a religion, they will deny it and claim it's the truth and reality, much like devout religious people, and like devout religious people may even be willing to defend their beliefs with force

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linid0t posted...

Ah yes universal morality must not exist. We need big daddy to direct our thoughts and guide our hand. How would I have ever known kicking a puppy was bad until my holy book told me the way.

Ok and what political party do you affiliate with? Because if it's Democrat, then we need Uncle Sam to get us jobs, give us a monthly allowance, and tell business owners who they have to sell things to.

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garlic powder posted...

Ok and what political party do you affiliate with? Because if it's Democrat, then we need Uncle Sam to get us jobs, give us a monthly allowance, and tell business owners who they have to sell things to.

do you really think the democratic process and religion are analogous?

I mean there are lots of arguments that democracy is flawed but that seems like a stretch

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Yes.

We need the government to tell us what cars to buy. We need the government to tell us that plastic straws are bad. We need the government to tell me to stay away from plastic bags. There are already states/cities that have banned these products.

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overall i feel we needed religion before the internet.

there are times we need religion with the internet.

we are defining our values with the internet and some day religion wont be needed.

i do believe people need something or someone to believe in and the internet can spread inner dependency some day. but now, we are so into externalities to define ourselves that its going to get worse until a revolution is done to accept our uniqueness and strive for a better world tomorrow.

...some day.

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Historically, religion has been incredibly important. While it has been used to do terrible things, the reverse is also true.

However, if, in the modern day, you need religion to stop you being a shitty person, you are and probably always will be a shitty person.

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I'd say the end of the Abrahamic religions would be a net positive in today's society. Religion as a whole is really neither inherently good or bad, so it really depends on the overall application.

Balrog0 posted...

Neither better nor worse, I think there's ample evidence that people will create other sorts of belief systems and sort themselves into tribes even without religion per se

This is essentially what's happening now. Religion has been on the downtrend and what it's being replaced with is consumerism, where people are revolving their identities on things they buy or media they consume.

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Anyone who answers yes is extremely ignorant of history.

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I don't think the world would be any different tbh. Something else would replace it that would be what people cling to and it would the motivator for all the good and bad that happened in history due to religion.

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Too many dipshit atheists for me to say yes 100%.

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garlic powder posted...

Yes.

We need the government to tell us what cars to buy. We need the government to tell us that plastic straws are bad. We need the government to tell me to stay away from plastic bags. There are already states/cities that have banned these products.

yeah but those decisions are made by officials who are elected by the people, whether or not you like them

the edicts from religion are the exact opposite of that, in that the decisions are handed down from on high

the fact that you're jumping to the end game (do this or do that) rather than looking at the process makes me feel like you're missing the point of a statement like, "We need big daddy to direct our thoughts and guide our hand. How would I have ever known kicking a puppy was bad until my holy book told me the way," because it's not about someone having access to information you don't have, it's just about people thinking differently than you do and you not liking it. But that's not the issue. People who don't think you need religion aren't mad when religion tells you not to kill people.

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Balrog0 posted...

yeah but those decisions are made by officials who are elected by the people, whether or not you like them

the edicts from religion are the exact opposite of that, in that the decisions are handed down from on high

the fact that you're jumping to the end game (do this or do that) rather than looking at the process makes me feel like you're missing the point of a statement like, "We need big daddy to direct our thoughts and guide our hand. How would I have ever known kicking a puppy was bad until my holy book told me the way," because it's not about someone having access to information you don't have, it's just about people thinking differently than you do and you not liking it. But that's not the issue. People who don't think you need religion aren't mad when religion tells you not to kill people.

I literally already said nobody needs religion to be a good person or direct our thoughts in a positive way. Some people may need that spiritual direction, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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I think sometimes people need faith to help them pass through what is happening to them.

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garlic powder posted...

if there were no religion, people wouldn't have as much of a moral compass

Who started this myth? We don't need religion to tell us that murdering people is bad.

garlic powder posted...

It's a double edged sword.

In one way you can argue religion has halted some scientific progress, but on the other hand, if there were no religion, people wouldn't have as much of a moral compass. Crimes would be even more plentiful and a lot of people would cease being decent human beings.

We need religion.

Something along these lines imo. Our morality, at least in part, was built by whatever religion we were raised by or were adjacent to whether we believe the religion or not.

But at the same time religion holds us back and causes animosity towards the other.

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I Like Toast posted...

Anyone who answers yes is extremely ignorant of history.

This.

Even people saying religion leads to wars, those wars led to the progress that gave us modern society.
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Sad_Face posted...

This is essentially what's happening now. Religion has been on the downtrend

notice how things like homophobia, racism, and other bigotry has been on the downtrend because of that

I Like Toast posted...

Anyone who answers yes is extremely ignorant of history.

Your statement makes no sense.

Nobody has denied how influential religion has been but seeing as we don't have any idea how the world would have developed without it, it's really got fuck all to do with a grasp of history.

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HerpToTheDerp posted...

notice how things like homophobia, racism, and other bigotry has been on the downtrend because of that

Correlation does not equal causation, really as simple as that.

The only one of those you could even argue is encouraged by the Abrahamic religions (which it isn't) is homophobia, and still many religious people are ok with homosexuality than ever before. It really is just a societal trend.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/18/most-u-s-christian-groups-grow-more-accepting-of-homosexuality/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/american-muslims-are-now-more-accepting-of-homosexuality-than-white-evangelicals_n_597f3d8de4b02a4ebb76ea3d
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As an atheist...no, not at all. Organized religion was/is necessary. Anyone who believes otherwise has no idea what they're talking about.

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MKScorpion posted...

Who started this myth? We don't need religion to tell us that murdering people is bad

Religious people donate a larger percent of their income than non religious

So the actual question is where is this myth that morality is defined by if you think murder is okay or not. But the angstheist had no desire of intellectual honesty

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I Like Toast posted...

Religious people donate a larger percent of their income than non religious

So the actual question is where is this myth that morality is defined by if you think murder is okay or not. But the angstheist had no desire of intellectual honesty

The idea that donating more money necessarily makes you a better person or is the only means of measuring it is incredibly intellectually dishonest.

Seems like you just want to troll with your posts in this topic.

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