Current Events > I saw Star Wars: The Last Jedi. I don't understand the hate. [Spoilers]

(+) Yeah! (+)

The only things I didn't like were Leia coming back to life and literally flying back into the ship, and Rose Tico's character as a whole.

I really don't understand why people treat the movie like it's sacrilege.

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My 2 biggest problems were how they trashed Luke's character and how useless Finn's side adventure was.

Also I love how they free that one horse and Rose is like "now this trip was worth it" meanwhile literally dozens of child slaves are still doing their thing back where they ran from lol
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• They destroyed Luke's character
• Leia flying through space
• Entire side plot was useless because Holdo was an idiot/badly written
• "Sacred texts"
• Dead Yoda using Force Thunderstorm
• Humor was forced ... badly. No pun intended
• Snoke, being one of the more impressive developing characters got flushed down the toilet
• Captain Phasma and Finn could've had an impressive arc with each other but that was also flushed
• Holdo suicide mission was uninspiring

There's a small list

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without nitpicking on things like overuse of kiddy humor, Leia flying through Space, villains acting like clowns, etc.

In general I felt like they didn't develop the story or characters in an interesting direction. Fine, get rid of Luke, whatever. Do it how you want but at least do something interesting with the new characters. They failed to make you interested in what happens next and how it all ends. It just doesn't seem like an epic story like in the OT & PT.
I felt like they didn't know where to go with it.

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CRON posted...

I really don't understand why people treat the movie like it's sacrilege.

They're mad that Luke isn't Goku. That's pretty much all you need to know.

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ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

In general I felt like they didn't develop the story or characters in an interesting direction. They failed to make you interested in what happens next and how it all ends.

Honestly, this sums it up pretty well. It attempted to create it's own identity and just did not succeed.

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Luke did not have any fucking dignity in TLJ, the whole purpose of RJs film was to destroy his character.

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Have you even watched the original trilogy? Because if you know Luke, then you see him succumbing to fear into tempting to murder his nephew in his sleep. And then shutting himself off to the force, become a hermit and let Kylo run free and let his Sister and Brother in law deal with him (aka getting killed) is just insulting.

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longpost inc:

from a movie perspective it's awful. like half of it is pointless filler (i.e. the whole casino planet part). there are tons of weird little inconsistencies and plot points. character development is all over the place. there are some lines of dialogue that feel like they were written by Tommy Wiseau (the throne room scene with Snoke immediately comes to mind, how the movie starts with a Yo Mamma joke, etc). There are tons of other details (how Luke was handled as a character, how there is no real established villain or conflict, etc), and altogether these add up to a pretty crappy movie.

from a star wars fan perspective, it's even worse. i have long had the belief that star wars fans dont necessarily like the movies as much as they like the potential of the franchise. They like to hear about a planet or see some cool looking character like Boba Fett and wonder about him. The new trilogy does nothing to spark this imagination. there's no real cool new locations, no cool new aliens, etc; there is no sense of a conflict or universe being any bigger than what is presented on the screen.

for all the hate the prequel trilogy gets, the one thing it nails is that sense of scale. you've got politics, a bunch of prominent alien races, expansion on the sith/jedi lore, tons of new planets with their own history & culture, etc. the new movies have none of this, they're just generic blockbuster films with star wars assets plopped in there. if you took out the X Wings and lightsabers and replaced them with something else TLJ could be any other movie, there is nothing "star wars" in those movies besides superficial, surface-level shit.

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EvenSpoonier posted...

They're mad that Luke isn't Goku. That's pretty much all you need to know.

I do want to give more credit to the people who hate Luke in TLJ, but honestly, I think they misinterpreted the characters all these years. The outrage over him contemplating killing Kylo while he slept seems to be the biggest offender to people who think this way, as if old man Luke could never be capable of such a thought. Thing is though, Luke has always been emotional, impetuous, quick to anger and frustration. His occasional moments of speaking like a wise old master in RotJ don't change this, as he still lashes out emotionally in many scenes. He really is his father's son in every way that counts; they both walked right up to the edge up jumping into the dark side, and the only thing that separates Luke is that, in the moment of truth with the Emperor, he chose not to turn back and not give in to his dark desires.

I think people were expecting him to become the new Obi-Wan: a wise, patient teacher type, which isn't Luke's character at all. The personality traits present in young Obi-Wan are very consistent with old Obi-Wan; I have no trouble believing that Ewan McGregor and Alec Guiness are playing the same character at different points in his life. Similarly, I find young Luke and old Luke to have the same consistency. Some people like to think that characters don't have meaningful arcs if they're not completely different people from where they started. But even in fiction, characters rarely ever change completely; they just learn how to better deal with their bad nature and impulses. To suggest that a character is ruined simply because they returned to such impulses in a moment of weakness is, honestly, pretty unfair; I think it goes a long way towards humanizing them.

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Romulox28 posted...

longpost inc:

from a movie perspective it's awful. like half of it is pointless filler (i.e. the whole casino planet part). there are tons of weird little inconsistencies and plot points. character development is all over the place. there are some lines of dialogue that feel like they were written by Tommy Wiseau (the throne room scene with Snoke immediately comes to mind, how the movie starts with a Yo Mamma joke, etc). There are tons of other details (how Luke was handled as a character, how there is no real established villain or conflict, etc), and altogether these add up to a pretty crappy movie.

from a star wars fan perspective, it's even worse. i have long had the belief that star wars fans dont necessarily like the movies as much as they like the potential of the franchise. They like to hear about a planet or see some cool looking character like Boba Fett and wonder about him. The new trilogy does nothing to spark this imagination. there's no real cool new locations, no cool new aliens, etc; there is no sense of a conflict or universe being any bigger than what is presented on the screen.

for all the hate the prequel trilogy gets, the one thing it nails is that sense of scale. you've got politics, a bunch of prominent alien races, expansion on the sith/jedi lore, tons of new planets with their own history & culture, etc. the new movies have none of this, they're just generic blockbuster films with star wars assets plopped in there. if you took out the X Wings and lightsabers and replaced them with something else TLJ could be any other movie, there is nothing "star wars" in those movies besides superficial, surface-level shit.

this hits it all pretty well too

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Rose is worse than Jar Jar Binks. Completely worthless. The whole casino side quest wouldve been a lot better if Finn and Poe did it. Other than that I dont have any huge complaints. Its not my favorite but I think the movie looks really good.

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DoGCyN posted...

They destroyed Luke's character

Probably my biggest issue with it. You'd think he would have learned something from Empire Strikes Back but no he didn't.

Leia flying through space looked really bad and the entire casino part felt forced in and pointless. It's not an amazing film but I don't find it as bad as others. It's a 6/10 movie to me. Some of the magic is definitely gone from the original movies which sucks and it's been gone since The Force Awakens despite me really loving that movie.

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Hairistotle posted...

@EvenSpoonier do you really think this?

"Luke isn't Goku" is a gross oversimplification of what I really think. But it gets the most basic points across, and hoo boy howdy does it piss the toxics off, which is a nice bonus.

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@EvenSpoonier

When even Mark Hamill himself says what they went with was fucking stupid that is all that actually matters. Not only does he know the character intimately but the hack RJ clearly gave zero fucks about how his script shit all over the characters and everything that had potential from TFA.

If they wanted a jaded old Luke it could have been done yet stay true to his character, look at how Logan got it right.

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You know, TLJ is the only SW film in recent memory I find remotely interesting but I think I'd defo trade it for relative online peace and a trilogy of original trilogy retreads that SW fans so richly deserve instead.

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NinjaBreakfast posted...

a trilogy of original trilogy retreads

you have that already

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In my opinion, The Last Jedi is an entertaining movie. The only thing I don't like on the surface is the terrible intro/the stupid gags in general.

However, if you take time to think about the plot at all, it's an absolute travesty.
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