Current Events > French parliament passes resolution calling anti-Zionism a form of anti-Semitism

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s0nicfan posted...

45 have been upheld.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

I shouldnt have used the word upheld.

What I meant was how many unfair resolutions has Israel been forced to comply with?

To me anti-semitism is any form of discrimination or violence towards Jewish people for being Jewish. Not genuine criticism of Israel and its policies.

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Right wing pro jewishness typically starts and ends at being nominally pro-Israel while simultaneously being actively anti semitic otherwise

shockthemonkey posted...

The answer to this problem is not to redefine anti-Zionism but to call out anti-Semitism when the two overlap

This exactly.

All forms of antisemitism must be challenged and where appropriate the ant-semite should face legal action. But to expand the definition of anti-semitism to say you dont agree with Israel is going too far.

This is a slippery slope and soon any form of genuine criticism of Judaism, Jews, Israel and its policies will be illegal.

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Magyar15 posted...

Not to the same extent. At all. And globally, you see the same singling out. The problem is, is that so many people take a reasonable statement "It's ok to criticize Israel," which I happen to agree with, and run with it, using it to lead to unsavory conspiracy theories. You don't see this with other countries. There's literally a post in this topic saying that France is doing this for bribe money

If you agree that "It's ok to criticize Israel", then why is your response to countries actively discouraging or banning that "Yeah but some people abuse free speech to say nasty things".

Should we ban criticism of everything because some people have racist, bigoted slants to their criticism?

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shockthemonkey posted...

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/15/propositions/pion2403.asp

It is not two sentences long

Well it's about half the length of a Warren proposal so shouldn't take too long for you to read. Seriously, where in the resolution are they doing what you're claiming they're doing? The translation even explicitly makes sure to say that criticism of Israel is not itself antisemitism.

But anti-Zionist acts can sometimes obscure antisemitic realities. Criticizing the very existence of Israel as a community of Jewish citizens is tantamount to hatred of the Jewish community as a whole, as is the collective responsibility of Jews for the policies of the Jewish people. Israeli political authorities is a manifestation of anti-Semitism. Such drifts are increasingly anti-Zionism "one of the contemporary forms of anti-Semitism," to use the words of the President of the Republic. To point to such drifts does not prevent any free criticism of the policies and positions taken by Israeli governments.

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Remember, if someone was actually antisemitic they wouldn't say up front that they were. They would endlessly argue semantics to protect their smokescreen rhetoric.

Antisemitism is one of the world's oldest and most hidden hateful agendas out there.
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shockthemonkey posted...

It conflates antizionism with antisemitism but it swears it doesnt so thats fine is not a stance Im going to entertain

It makes it so someone calling a Jew a "dirty Zionist" to try and get around hate speech laws is recognized as committing hate speech.

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If I criticize American policies but say "America" instead of "the American government", am I being anti-white or anti-Christian?

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hockeybub89 posted...

If I criticize American policies but say "America" instead of "the American government", am I being anti-white or anti-Christian?

Youre being ultra-racist because there are quite a lot of non-white people in America.

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hockeybub89 posted...

If I criticize American policies but say "America" instead of "the American government", am I being anti-white or anti-Christian?

America nor christianity nor white people doesn't have a millenia history of being persecuted and genocided against while bigots brainwash people with smokescreens to defend it. Not a good comparison.

Also America isn't solely white.
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

You don't see people making claims about foreign financial influence from nations?

The fuck rock you been living under?

Not like they do Israel.

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hockeybub89 posted...

If I criticize American policies but say "America" instead of "the American government", am I being anti-white or anti-Christian?

No, because you're criticizing policy. If you walked around calling black people dirty Congolese and then defended your racism with "oh, but I'm criticizing African policy", no one would buy your bullshit either. That's explicitly what the resolution addresses, and everyone making some kind of slippery slope argument that this will then be used to prevent all criticism of Israel is doing exactly the crap that they criticize Republicans of doing all the time.

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s0nicfan posted...

No, because you're criticizing policy. If you walked around calling black people dirty Congolese and then defended your racism with "oh, but I'm criticizing African policy", no one would buy your bullshit either. That's explicitly what the resolution addresses, and everyone making some kind of slippery slope argument that this will then be used to prevent all criticism of Israel is doing exactly the crap that they criticize Republicans of doing all the time.

It's really amazing that he's going to quote your post and start defending himself even more.
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JonTaylorThomas posted...

It's really amazing that he's going to quote your post and start defending himself even more.

interesting way to stifle a debate. What are you afraid of?

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Feetish posted...

interesting way to stifle a debate. What are you afraid of?

As a jewish man, I'm afraid of history repeating itself for the 10000th time while people stand idly by and do nothing.
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s0nicfan posted...

No, because you're criticizing policy. If you walked around calling black people dirty Congolese and then defended your racism with "oh, but I'm criticizing African policy", no one would buy your bullshit either. That's explicitly what the resolution addresses, and everyone making some kind of slippery slope argument that this will then be used to prevent all criticism of Israel is doing exactly the crap that they criticize Republicans of doing all the time.

But all Israel criticism is conflated with anti-Semitism and it shouldn't matter that the two sometimes really do overlap. It would be like taking a stand against criticism of Sharia nations because some people are just using it to make their anti-brown people hate more palatable.

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shockthemonkey posted...

Conflating all anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism is redefining words in a dangerous way

Hood thing the resolution doesn't do that, intentionally or not

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Kinda weird you're fighting to the death to defend policy towards a country you have no ties to.
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JonTaylorThomas posted...

Kinda weird you're fighting to the death to defend policy towards a country you have no ties to.

Weird take when non-Israel nations are treating Israel with kid gloves because "some people use legitimate criticism to mask illegitimate criticism".

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JonTaylorThomas posted...

As a jewish man, I'm afraid of history repeating itself for the 10000th time while people stand idly by and do nothing.

So the best way of ensuring that is by stopping all criticism whatsoever?


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Because pick up a fucking history book, jfc.

Anti zionism is another smokescreen in a long list of smokescreens tossed out by the world's biggest groups of antisemites. This really is no different.

"No we're just talking about policy! This has nothing to do with jews!"

And the sad thing is the above statement can apply to anytime when jewish people got the short end of the stick. It isn't exclusive to modern day israel.
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JonTaylorThomas posted...

It's really amazing that he's going to quote your post and start defending himself even more.

Why don't you stand up and tell the class what you're implying here?

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Feetish posted...

So the best way of ensuring that is by stopping all criticism whatsoever?

What criticism are you referring to, specifically? Because it looks to me you're just throwing a blanket over the issue.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Why don't you stand up and tell the class what you're implying here?

Don't bait me, please. You know exactly what it meant.
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JonTaylorThomas posted...

Because pick up a fucking history book, jfc.

Anti zionism is another smokescreen in a long list of smokescreens tossed out by the world's biggest groups of antisemites. This really is no different.

"No we're just talking about policy! This has nothing to do with jews!"

And the sad thing is the above statement can apply to anytime when jewish people got the short end of the stick. It isn't exclusive to modern day israel.

So is legitimate criticism ok, or is it not because anti-Semites can use it as a smokescreen? Make up your mind

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shockthemonkey posted...

Is it antiSemitic to criticize Christian zionists?

Being that it was also antisemitic to criticize the German christians who wanted to protect the jews from being persecuted against the invading nazis, yes.

Again, pick up a fucking history book. Everytime jewish people are persecuted by a foreign state, the smokescreen to indoctrinate people is always "just policy here"
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JonTaylorThomas posted...

Don't bait me, please. You know exactly what it meant.

Yeah I fucking do

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hockeybub89 posted...

So is legitimate criticism ok, or is it not because anti-Semites can use it as a smokescreen? Make up your mind

Please feel free to give legitimate criticisms and not blanket statements.
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"Why can't I give legitimate criticisms about black people" - hypothetical racist MAGA supporter that won't actually give a single "legitimate" criticism and is simply throwing up a smokescreen
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JonTaylorThomas posted...

Please feel free to give legitimate criticisms and not blanket statements.

Israel is an ethnostate that commits human rights abuses and is just as bad as Palestine in their current conflict. Netanyahu is a rotten asshole.

Now please tell me about how I actually just hate Jews and would never criticize another country like that.

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JonTaylorThomas posted...

"Why can't I give legitimate criticisms about black people" - hypothetical racist MAGA supporter that won't actually give a single "legitimate" criticism and is simply throwing up a smokescreen

Is Black People a country? Is it possible for someone to criticize "black people" and not have an issue with black people?

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Again, why are people pretending that this resolution can be used to shut down any legitimate criticism of Israel?

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Uh-huh. I vaguely remember some other historic individual criticizing the world allegedly becoming a "jewish" ethnostate and indoctrinating people with "legitimate" criticisms and policies.

Again, pick up a history book. The fake "legitimate" criticisms towards "Zionism" is just another in a long line of thinly veiled antisemitism.

I asked you to provide one of your alleged "legitimate" criticisms.
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

Again, why are people pretending that this resolution can be used to shut down any legitimate criticism of Israel?

Also this
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hockeybub89 posted...

Is Black People a country? Is it possible for someone to criticize "black people" and not have an issue with black people?

Except the difference is a racist always spouts "I can't give legitimate criticisms about ____" in an effort to play victim and hide his racism, but never actually brings one up.
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JonTaylorThomas posted...

Uh-huh. I vaguely remember some other historic individual criticizing the world allegedly becoming a "jewish" ethnostate and indoctrinating people with "legitimate" criticisms and policies.

Again, pick up a history book. The fake "legitimate" criticisms towards "Zionism" is just another in a long line of thinly veiled antisemitism.

I asked you to provide one of your alleged "legitimate" criticisms.

"It's ok to criticize Israel. Now let me air quote legitimate criticism and compare a guy to Hitler."

I said nothing of the world becoming a Jewish ethnostate. I don't think Jews are taking over the world. I just think that Israel should not be an ethnostate and that there is no winning side in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

But some people that are against ethnostates actually only dislike certain ethnostates so somehow that means everyone who supports diversity and globalism actually wants the exact opposite of any of that.

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JonTaylorThomas posted...

Except the difference is a racist always spouts "I can't give legitimate criticisms about ____" in an effort to play victim and hide his racism, but never actually brings one up.

There is no such thing as legitimate criticisms against black people. The very idea is racist.

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shockthemonkey posted...

If youre going to be this disingenuous as to pretend generalizing black people is the same as criticizing a government or colonial movement then I think its obvious you dont have any argument.

"Disingenuous" says the guy who repeatedly refuses to acknowledge that the stated purpose of this resolution is to recognize that comments like "dirty zionist" are thinly veiled antisemitic slurs and keeps insisting this is about preventing criticism of a nation's policies when, again, the resolution itself explicitly states that said criticism is still acceptable.

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But there are legitimate criticisms against jewish people defending their country from people attacking them?

Oh boy. I'm done here.
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JonTaylorThomas posted...

But there are legitimate criticisms against jewish people defending their country from people attacking them?

Oh boy. I'm done here.

TIL bulldozing houses in annexed territory with armored vehicles is a defensive measure

Free Palestine

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shockthemonkey posted...

My problem has been the deliberate conflation of antiZionism and antiSemitism and the fact that youre lying about that while accusing me of being disingenuous is pathetic.

People calling Jews "dirty Zionists" as a slur already explicitly conflates the two. That isn't something this resolution "did". Its been a means of dodging hate crimes for decades, and given that Jews in France are a full 50% of hate crime victims (and growing) at only 1% of the population is proof that it needs addressing.

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