Current Events > Is pirating video games "stealing"?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well there would be no IP in a truly free market. It can't exist without government enforced artificial scarcity. There is no information scarcity unless you make laws to restrict access.

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darkstar4221 posted...

To all those who oppose piracy in every single way, that you believe intellectual property is a legitimate property right. Let's say hypothetically the copyright duration was 10 years, so all nes/snes/genesis/psx/ps2/sega saturn/dreamcast/neo-geo/xbox games are in the public domain. If you pirate a video game that is no longer protected by copyright, is that still stealing?

No. As I said earlier, theft it's taking something that doesn't belong to you without permission. If something is considered public domain, then that is permission to copy it. You fundamentally cannot pirate a public domain media.

You can still plagiarize it however.

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SailorGoon posted...

YellowMustard69 posted...

This.

Piracy is copying. Not stealing.

lol no. Not that. That is a very fallacious analogy. It's very different to replicate physical property than it is to replicate intellectual property. Replicating physical property means you already have the materials to do it. What you do and how you shape what resources you have takes little to no discretion since they already belong to you. When you build a car from scratch, it is assumed you procured the materials to do so legally. You paid for it one way or another.

Not to mention there is a lot of gray area in the legality of the matter of making your own car. You guys are being disingenuous so you can justify your actions. Just own up to it. It's illegal no matter how you cut it. People do illegal shit all the time and don't harm anyone.

So please explain then how if I download something that it's not making a copy. Thanks.

C'mon guy. I never said that you aren't making a copy. I'm saying that you aren't making a legal copy. That the copy you made does not truly belong to you. That game never belonged to you in the first place and replicating that doesn't change the fact.

The difference I highlighted is with piracy that is a true copy meanwhile replicating a car is not a real copy. That car is its own entity.

It's not your property. It does not belong to you. You are not entitled to ownership, rights, or use for free of charge
What is so hard to get about this?


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The issue though is that if you copy something then the one that you copied from has not been stolen because it is still in physical possession of the owner.

YellowMustard69 posted...

The issue though is that if you copy something then the one that you copied from has not been stolen because it is still in physical possession of the owner.

Right, its illegal copying not theft. Its a different crime altogether.
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Are people still doing mental gymnastics to convince themselves they aren't stealing when they pirate stuff?

you wouldn't download a car

SauI_Goodman posted...

you wouldn't download a car

No, we would if we could.
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MKScorpion posted...

Are people still doing mental gymnastics to convince themselves they aren't stealing when they pirate stuff?

Pirates dont care. Are you trying to convince yourself that pirates feel bad, will stop or that they can ever be stopped?
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Tyranthraxus posted...

darkstar4221 posted...

To all those who oppose piracy in every single way, that you believe intellectual property is a legitimate property right. Let's say hypothetically the copyright duration was 10 years, so all nes/snes/genesis/psx/ps2/sega saturn/dreamcast/neo-geo/xbox games are in the public domain. If you pirate a video game that is no longer protected by copyright, is that still stealing?

No. As I said earlier, theft it's taking something that doesn't belong to you without permission. If something is considered public domain, then that is permission to copy it. You fundamentally cannot pirate a public domain media.

You can still plagiarize it however.

But as someone said earlier copyright violation and theft isn't technically the same thing. Since most content is still protected by copyright, all the roms and emulation I have of older video games would be considered stealing since I never bought the original copy.

Lairen posted...

Pirates dont care. Are you trying to convince yourself that pirates feel bad, will stop or that they can ever be stopped?

Idk man. Actual pirates are a bit more admirable. They acknowledge what they are and they say I don't give a fuck. They do and take what they want because they can. There's no justifying it, nor do they care to. They don't need to be in the right.

It's better to take something that's not yours and have the only reason to give be "because I wanted it" instead of the bullshit "well I had no other choice. I needed to. This is actually the ethical thing to do because blah blah blah. It is rightfully mine. I am entitled to it"

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SailorGoon posted...

Lairen posted...

Pirates dont care. Are you trying to convince yourself that pirates feel bad, will stop or that they can ever be stopped?

Idk man. Actual pirates are a bit more admirable. They acknowledge what they are and they say I don't give a fuck. They do and take what they want because they can. There's no justifying it, nor do they care to. They don't need to be in the right.

It's better to take something that's not yours and have the only reason to give be "because I wanted it" instead of the bullshit "well I had no other choice. I needed to. This is actually the ethical thing to do because blah blah blah. It is rightfully mine. I am entitled to it"

Im tip toeing around cause the tos can mod you if youre too adamant about pirating but ill say im not trying to justify any pirating.
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SailorGoon posted...

It's better to take something that's not yours and have the only reason to give be "because I wanted it" instead of the bullshit "well I had no other choice. I needed to. This is actually the ethical thing to do because blah blah blah. It is rightfully mine. I am entitled to it"

There's nothing bullshit about it, you're just too stupid/too brainwashed to understand.

darkstar4221 posted...

But as someone said earlier copyright violation and theft isn't technically the same thing. Since most content is still protected by copyright, all the roms and emulation I have of older video games would be considered stealing since I never bought the original copy.

You're so close dude i know you can do this

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@ledbowman I thought based on your posts that I've seen that you were on the left, I'm surprised you're anti piracy when it's essentially an anti-working class / poor stance.

p-m posted...

There's nothing bullshit about it, you're just too stupid/too brainwashed to understand.

It's not your property. You are not entitled to something others paid for and was created with the intent to be sold for free. You do not have an innate right to use or own any and every piece of media. Just because you want something doesn't mean you get to have it.


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ledbowman posted...

darkstar4221 posted...

But as someone said earlier copyright violation and theft isn't technically the same thing. Since most content is still protected by copyright, all the roms and emulation I have of older video games would be considered stealing since I never bought the original copy.

You're so close dude i know you can do this

As someone said earlier copyright violation and theft are not the same thing. If the government wanted to they can shorten the copyright duration to 7 years. If pirating is the same thing as actual theft, there would be no such thing as term-limits or public domain.

Copyright infringement is not stealing. There is difference between making a "copy" of a work, and "stealing" a work.

p-m posted...

@ledbowman I thought based on your posts that I've seen that you were on the left, I'm surprised you're anti piracy when it's essentially an anti-working class / poor stance.

Lmao, politics have nothing to do with calling a spade a spade. Led and myself have both said that we are not foreign to the practice and don't condemn anyone for doing so. However we aren't disingenuous to say we are entitled to what we take and that it rightfully belongs to us.

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SailorGoon posted...

It's not your property. You are not entitled to something others paid for and was created with the intent to be sold for free. You do not have an innate right to use or own any and every piece of media.

intellectual property is a bullshit concept, I have an ethical right to all media as a human being regardless of what the law says

lol

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No cuz itz and teh art

Is saving a starry night jpg stealing?

Video games are sport/art/careers

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I don't see why literally copying a file is such a big deal

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A game everyone pirates a lot is popular enough to sell a lot. Theres no game that failed due to pirating. And you keep dodging how renting and borrowing and buying used are the same difference.

And even if pirating directly caused a company to go under i wouldnt care in the slightest.

Argue your anti pirating crap somewhere without these stupid tos protecting yourside. You wont. Imagine all this pro-pirating opinions on an anti-pirating site.
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Who cares?

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Garioshi posted...

I don't see why literally copying a file is such a big deal

It's not a big deal.

Being in possession of something that is not yours and trying to justify it by saying things like you needed to do it or you deserved it while other people paid for it however. That's what I take issue with. Fucking own up to what you're doing.

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SailorGoon posted...

It's not a big deal.

Being in possession of something that is not yours and trying to justify it by saying things like you needed to do it or you deserved it while other people paid for it however. That's what I take issue with. Fucking own up to what you're doing.

Imagine caring this much about piracy.

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Lonestar2000 posted...

Imagine caring this much about piracy.

Bruh. I've said countless times I don't give a shit about whether you pirate stuff. I can't even count on one hand how many times I've said that I myself have illegally downloaded stuff.

I just don't sit there and say I was entitled to it. If someone tells me "hey that's not yours" I say "I don't care. I wanted it". I don't do the mental gymnastics you guys are doing to justify it.

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SailorGoon posted...

Lonestar2000 posted...

Imagine caring this much about piracy.

Bruh. I've said countless times I don't give a shit about whether you pirate stuff. I can't even count on one hand how many times I've said that I myself have illegally downloaded stuff.

I just don't sit there and say I was entitled to it. If someone tells me "hey that's not yours" I say "I don't care. I wanted it". I don't do the mental gymnastics you guys are doing to justify it.

So, own up to your shitty posts. Dont tell me you really feel this way. I take issue with that man. Just say you enjoy making annoying shitty posts. Because you owe me that for some reason.
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Way I see it, if you can't find the game easily/it's out of print then it's fair game IMO

Steve Jobs had it right; if you provide an accessible, easy way to obtain content (in this case iTunes), less people would be incentivized to pirate it
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I Like Toast posted...

It is never okay to steal an entertainment product. It's not complicated.

it's like 0.999... = 1
some people just can't accept it or wrap their heads around it

AvantgardeAClue posted...

if you can't find the game easily/it's out of print then it's fair game

Why

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ledbowman posted...

AvantgardeAClue posted...

if you can't find the game easily/it's out of print then it's fair game

Why

If the publisher/developer are no longer making money on it then who are you stealing from at that point
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

If the publisher/developer are no longer making money on it then who are you stealing from at that point

The owner of the property

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AvantgardeAClue posted...

Way I see it, if you can't find the game easily/it's out of print then it's fair game IMO

Steve Jobs had it right; if you provide an accessible, easy way to obtain content (in this case iTunes), less people would be incentivized to pirate it

Like bc, and a more options on tbese digital stores?

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ledbowman posted...

AvantgardeAClue posted...

If the publisher/developer are no longer making money on it then who are you stealing from at that point

The owner of the property

Even though they would've not seen a penny of that money if I bought it used? Sure

GoodOlJr posted...

Like bc, and a more options on tbese digital stores?

Backwards compatibility, digital downloads, Netflix-style game subscriptions like Xbox Game Pass and anything else that keeps a game as close to MSRP as possible help combat piracy while keeping options realistic and affordable IMO.
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It's not about whether they will make money or not

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AvantgardeAClue posted...

Even though they would've not seen a penny of that money if I bought it used? Sure

Backwards compatibility, digital downloads, Netflix-style game subscriptions like Xbox Game Pass and anything else that keeps a game as close to MSRP as possible help combat piracy while keeping options realistic and affordable IMO.

Unfortunately a lot of licensed games will be lost due to legal headaches

Wwf no mercy RIP

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ledbowman posted...

It's not about whether they will make money or not

Then what the fuck is it about? Morals?
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Lairen posted...

So, own up to your shitty posts. Dont tell me you really feel this way. I take issue with that man. Just say you enjoy making annoying shitty posts. Because you owe me that for some reason.

lol at seasalt on this pirate

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Its really up to them to stop me. Thats literally how the law works.
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AvantgardeAClue posted...

Then what the fuck is it about? Morals?

No. Who gives a fuck. But the question is is it stealing which doesn't matter if they were going to make money

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Laws dont matter if no one enforces them.
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Lairen posted...

Laws dont matter if no one enforces them.

so it's okay that cops execute unarmed civilians and don't face justice?

Just want to point out a number of games cannot be purchased in any form because the published went out of business and the rights are stuck in legal hell. A lot of PSX-era and earlier games are in this area. So although I agree publishers should do like SEGA does and sell their old stuff for 99 cents on Steam, a lot of games cannot be sold.

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darkstar4221 posted...

But as someone said earlier copyright violation and theft isn't technically the same thing. Since most content is still protected by copyright, all the roms and emulation I have of older video games would be considered stealing since I never bought the original copy.

I have already said theft is taking something that doesn't belong to you without permission is theft. There's no condition required for the original object to be removed. If I use your SSN and birthday to open a bunch of new credit accounts, I've stolen your identity / committed identity theft. You're still very much in possession of your identity however. No one disputes that identity theft is theft.

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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

I know a few people who do not believe an artist owns the art they create, regardless if there is any intent to sell it. They think the original music you play, the painting you create, or the book you write belongs to the rest of the world when it's made, even if you only show it to your friends.

p-m posted...

intellectual property is a bullshit concept, I have an ethical right to all media as a human being regardless of what the law says

Lmao, I didnt think Id run into one of these nut jobs on CE, but I guess it shouldnt be surprising.
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malenz posted...

Lairen posted...

Laws dont matter if no one enforces them.

so it's okay that cops execute unarmed civilians and don't face justice?

No, someone has to enforce laws on the police officers or theyll continue. Like pirates continue to pirate. Great example.
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They don't give you an easy way to access classic games legally.

I'm not paying $600+ for Snatcher

cmiller4642 posted...

They don't give you an easy way to access classic games legally.

I'm not paying $600+ for Snatcher

then guess what. you dont get to access the game LMAO

when something sells out deal with it.