Current Events > Friendly reminder that Kratom is not a "safe" alternative to anything.

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you switch to Kratom to kick your meth or heroin habit, you might as well go back because you're just spending more for less high and just as much long term damage.

Bump for truth

Friendly reminder that you need a source for anyone to take you seriously
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BignutzisBack posted...

Friendly reminder that you need a source for anyone to take you seriously

I never take anything octillery says seriously
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BignutzisBack posted...

Friendly reminder that you need a source for anyone to take you seriously

The source is that I work in addiction recovery and have treaded people for kratom addiction. Shit does a lot of damage.

I thought octopuses were supposed to be smart.

Jeff_Garcia7 posted...

I thought octopuses were supposed to be smart.

I am.

OctilIery posted...

Jeff_Garcia7 posted...

I thought octopuses were supposed to be smart.

I am.

lol no
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andel posted...

OctilIery posted...

Jeff_Garcia7 posted...

I thought octopuses were supposed to be smart.

I am.

lol no

Sorry, it's the truth.

You haven't convinced me, TC.
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Pepys Monster posted...

You haven't convinced me, TC.

Try doing some basic research about itm. Kratom addiction is a real thing.

I'm actually curious about the topic and wish people would give arguments besides "ur wrong lol". But this is gamefaqs

To Google!

I was gonna go pick some up in like 20 minutes lol. I use it to help settle my stomach when Im low on pain meds.

I combine it so it's easy to just stop using it and go back to my main pain management. Stuff is situational. Most stuff isn't a good and bad black and white thing
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Lost_All_Senses posted...

I was gonna go pick some up in like 20 minutes lol. I use it to help settle my stomach when Im low on pain meds

It's safe to take casually, it's only abuse that is particularly harmful which is unfortunately what happens when used as an alternative.

Cartwheel_Kick posted...

I'm actually curious about the topic and wish people would give arguments besides "ur wrong lol". But this is gamefaqs

To Google!

its octillery. he can never construct an actual argument with sources, he just yells 'you wrong, me right'
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Cartwheel_Kick posted...

I'm actually curious about the topic and wish people would give arguments besides "ur wrong lol". But this is gamefaqs

To Google!

It's basically similar in damage to alcohol when abused. Casual use is fine, but people using it as MAT instead of something approved like methadone, suboxone, or vivitrol are going to end up abusing it the same as if they just started drinking instead.

I definitely seen something about getting withdrawals. But I already know how to minimize withdrawals of stuff my slowly taking it out your system. Cold turkey is never recommended. I never take Kratom long enough to get withdrawal systems or they're cancelled out by my prescribed meds
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OctilIery posted...

Cartwheel_Kick posted...

I'm actually curious about the topic and wish people would give arguments besides "ur wrong lol". But this is gamefaqs

To Google!

It's basically similar in damage to alcohol when abused. Casual use is fine, but people using it as MAT instead of something approved like methadone, suboxone, or vivitrol are going to end up abusing it the same as if they just started drinking instead.

Ah. I can believe that. But every substance can be abused.

If not, point one to me ASAP so I can start living a better life immediately

So kratom will give you meth mouth?
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Cartwheel_Kick posted...

OctilIery posted...

Cartwheel_Kick posted...

I'm actually curious about the topic and wish people would give arguments besides "ur wrong lol". But this is gamefaqs

To Google!

It's basically similar in damage to alcohol when abused. Casual use is fine, but people using it as MAT instead of something approved like methadone, suboxone, or vivitrol are going to end up abusing it the same as if they just started drinking instead.

Ah. I can believe that. But every substance can be abused.

If not, point one to me ASAP so I can start living a better life immediately

The problem is there are people suggesting Kratom as a safe alternative to quit heavier addiction, and it really isn't. It does a lot of damage and does nothing to treat the psychological aspects of addiction, and that kind of misinformation does a lot of damage :/

Lost_All_Senses posted...

I definitely seen something about getting withdrawals. But I already know how to minimize withdrawals of stuff my slowly taking it out your system. Cold turkey is never recommended. I never take Kratom long enough to get withdrawal systems or they're cancelled out by my prescribed meds

Yeah if you aren't getting withdrawals you're fine.

OctilIery posted...

Try doing some basic research about itm. Kratom addiction is a real thing.

And pretending its half as dangerous as regular meth use is fucking ridiculous and dangerous for someone who supposedly works with addicts.

What a dumb ass thing to say.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

OctilIery posted...

Try doing some basic research about itm. Kratom addiction is a real thing.

And pretending its half as dangerous as regular meth use is fucking ridiculous and dangerous for someone who supposedly works with addicts.

What a dumb ass thing to say.

No, it isn't. It does tons of long term damage, same as drinking constantly.

I used kratom to kick methadone and I don't take either one of them anymore.

What long term damage has been proven to be caused by eating Kratom? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

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Also who the fuck kicks a meth addiction with Kratom.

Kratom lessens opioid withdrawal symptoms, that doesnt have shit to do with amphetamines.

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If it's so dangerous then why did the DEA decide against banning it?
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Hey guys if you're considering kratom, why not just do meth?

- TC
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OctilIery posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

OctilIery posted...

Try doing some basic research about itm. Kratom addiction is a real thing.

And pretending its half as dangerous as regular meth use is fucking ridiculous and dangerous for someone who supposedly works with addicts.

What a dumb ass thing to say.

No, it isn't. It does tons of long term damage, same as drinking constantly.

nah it doesnt, you are either lying or ignorant on the subject
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yemmy posted...

I used kratom to kick methadone and I don't take either one of them anymore.

What long term damage has been proven to be caused by eating Kratom? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

His gimmick is he shows up, says something, argues obnoxiously with everyone about it and then eventually everyone stops wanting to be around him

its like UR junior

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yemmy posted...

Also who the fuck kicks a meth addiction with Kratom.

Kratom lessens opioid withdrawal symptoms, that doesnt have shit to do with amphetamines.

Sometimes you just need something rather than nothing. I have no experience with meth myself but that's just a general thing about addiction
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andel posted...

OctilIery posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

OctilIery posted...

Try doing some basic research about itm. Kratom addiction is a real thing.

And pretending its half as dangerous as regular meth use is fucking ridiculous and dangerous for someone who supposedly works with addicts.

What a dumb ass thing to say.

No, it isn't. It does tons of long term damage, same as drinking constantly.

nah it doesnt, you are either lying or ignorant on the subject

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/kratom/side-effects

Yes, it does.

WaterLink posted...

Hey guys if you're considering kratom, why not just do meth?

- TC

So are you trolling or is your reading comprehension that bad?

yemmy posted...

I used kratom to kick methadone and I don't take either one of them anymore.

What long term damage has been proven to be caused by eating Kratom? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

Anecdotal evidence is not a valid argument. There are lots of things that CAN work that are still a bad potentially dangerous idea. You CAN just quit your addiction cold turkey, you CAN go from being an alcoholic to just drinking in moderation, you CAN replace your meth/heroin/benzo/alcohol addiction with another substance or addiction. But all of those are still bad ideas.

yemmy posted...

Also who the fuck kicks a meth addiction with Kratom.

Kratom lessens opioid withdrawal symptoms, that doesnt have shit to do with amphetamines.

The same people who try it with heroin as a replacement for any other addiction, people either uneducated or misled.

OctilIery posted...

yemmy posted...

I used kratom to kick methadone and I don't take either one of them anymore.

What long term damage has been proven to be caused by eating Kratom? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

Anecdotal evidence is not a valid argument. There are lots of things that CAN work that are still a bad potentially dangerous idea. You CAN just quit your addiction cold turkey, you CAN go from being an alcoholic to just drinking in moderation, you CAN replace your meth/heroin/benzo/alcohol addiction with another substance or addiction. But all of those are still bad ideas.

The right answer is in-between your guys arguments. Because everyone is different and most will fall into experiences in the middle ground. Then there will be situations where it saved a persons life and there will be situations where it helped ruin a persons life. It's really about finding what uniquely works for you personally
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Lost_All_Senses posted...

OctilIery posted...

yemmy posted...

I used kratom to kick methadone and I don't take either one of them anymore.

What long term damage has been proven to be caused by eating Kratom? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

Anecdotal evidence is not a valid argument. There are lots of things that CAN work that are still a bad potentially dangerous idea. You CAN just quit your addiction cold turkey, you CAN go from being an alcoholic to just drinking in moderation, you CAN replace your meth/heroin/benzo/alcohol addiction with another substance or addiction. But all of those are still bad ideas.

The right answer is in-between your guys arguments. Because everyone is different and most will fall into experiences in the middle ground. Then there will be situations where it saved a persons life and there will be situations where it helped ruin a persons life. It's really about finding what uniquely works for you personally

The problem with that is that it's going to do a lot more harm than good overall. That's why I picked those examples, they're all things that can work and save a person's life, but suggesting them to someone, or trying them yourself, is incredibly dangerous. If someone does it and makes it work(in this case by carefully managing their dosing and treating the psychological aspects of their addiction without relapsing) then that's great, and they're doing their program. But don't go for something that only helps a small minority of people.

I personally always talk about the risks first when discussing drugs with people. Usually tell my worst experiences. Then talk about how I manage it after. I think as long as you give the person all the information you have and don't push it on someone then you have no reason to feel guilty. I think it's terrible how much people push alcohol on each other and to a much lesser extent weed. Alcohol uses danger lives in the casualness that it's presented to people.
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i think tc is just arguing for his job security at this point
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spudger posted...

i think tc is just arguing for his job security at this point

Losing my job because of no clients would be the best case scenario Tbqh.

OctilIery posted...

andel posted...

OctilIery posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

OctilIery posted...

Try doing some basic research about itm. Kratom addiction is a real thing.

And pretending its half as dangerous as regular meth use is fucking ridiculous and dangerous for someone who supposedly works with addicts.

What a dumb ass thing to say.

No, it isn't. It does tons of long term damage, same as drinking constantly.

nah it doesnt, you are either lying or ignorant on the subject

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/kratom/side-effects

Yes, it does.

WaterLink posted...

Hey guys if you're considering kratom, why not just do meth?

- TC

So are you trolling or is your reading comprehension that bad?

Literally nothing in the link you posted is comparable to the brain, liver, heart, and intestinal damage long term alcohol abuse does.
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OctilIery posted...

andel posted...

OctilIery posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

OctilIery posted...

Try doing some basic research about itm. Kratom addiction is a real thing.

And pretending its half as dangerous as regular meth use is fucking ridiculous and dangerous for someone who supposedly works with addicts.

What a dumb ass thing to say.

No, it isn't. It does tons of long term damage, same as drinking constantly.

nah it doesnt, you are either lying or ignorant on the subject

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/kratom/side-effects

Yes, it does.

WaterLink posted...

Hey guys if you're considering kratom, why not just do meth?

- TC

So are you trolling or is your reading comprehension that bad?

that doesn't remotely support what you are claiming. try again
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https://americanaddictioncenters.org/kratom/side-effects

So this is what passes for a 'source' now? Jesus.
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vigorm0rtis posted...

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/kratom/side-effects

So this is what passes for a 'source' now? Jesus.

not only that but it doesnt even support his original and absurd claim. the moral of the story here is just that octillery is really bad at arguing and proving any point
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OctilIery posted...

Losing my job because of no clients would be the best case scenario Tbqh.

Cool. Get exponentially better at your job and maybe you can help that happen.

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Lost_All_Senses posted...

Sometimes you just need something rather than nothing. I have no experience with meth myself but that's just a general thing about addiction

I understand what you are saying, my thing has never been stimulants, I liked crack the one time I did it but it made me stare into space for the 10-15 minute duration of the high.

OctilIery posted...

Anecdotal evidence is not a valid argument. There are lots of things that CAN work that are still a bad potentially dangerous idea. You CAN just quit your addiction cold turkey, you CAN go from being an alcoholic to just drinking in moderation, you CAN replace your meth/heroin/benzo/alcohol addiction with another substance or addiction. But all of those are still bad ideas.

I'm not promoting kratom I am just stating that it does aid the withdrawal of stronger opioids.

If someone can't handle Kratom withdrawal with a few klonopins and maybe some trazadone then they have more of a psychological addiction.

You're trying to tell me my anectdotal evidence is 'wrong' when all I was saying is that it worked for me and I have been addicted to Oxy, Fent, Hydro, Bupe, and Methadone. I sometimes will take a Percocet recreationally but considering at one point i used to wake up shaking until I got 60mg of oxy up my nose I think I'm doing pretty well.

You still didnt say what is so dangerous about Kratom though. I'm no guru on Kratom because I used it to get off of methadone and then stopped but nothing I've read about it has said it was hepatoxic or anything beyong a small percentage of the population that don't have the liver enzyme to properly break down any opioids correctly.

If you're promoting bupe/suboxone over Kratom I can go ahead and tell you you're just being fed BS propaganda by FDA/Big Pharma and havent talked to anyone that has come off of both at different times. Bupe withdrawal is almost as bad as methadone withdrawal and I can name at least 5 people that i know that would tell you it is actually worse.

I understand replacing one dope with another dope is not advisable but if kratom was so bad the DEA would do something about it and it is not supposed to be something to replace it. It is supposed to be used as a taper or aid for withdrawal symptoms.

Doctors that push suboxone are pieces of shit for the most part. The only use for suboxone is to use it like kratom, for like a week or two and then stopped. Suboxone is a fuckin serious problem in jail now too because of how easy it is to hide the strips vs baggies of H or pills.


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Do you know what the fuck vivitrol is TC?
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Alteres posted...

Do you know what the fuck vivitrol is TC?

I already mentioned vivitrol in here and in other topics, what's your point?

You sure as hell don't use it to help with opioid withdrawal.

That would be a good way to seriously fuck someone up.
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Has anyone on the anti-kratom side ever had an opioid withdrawal? Cause you might be more understanding if you have.
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Alteres posted...

You sure as hell don't use it to help with opioid withdrawal.

That would be a good way to seriously fuck someone up.

Using a partial ru opioid receptor agonist to ease opioid withdrawal is a bad idea?

Why is that the preferred method of cessation by professionals then?

Better yet why do I spend my time arguing with randos on the internet that have no research or personal experiences with these things when I've jumped on and off opioids because of kidney problem/stones many different times because I literally couldn't function without opioids?

Like I said I'm not shilling kratom but I sure as fuck woulda been glad to have t the first time I kicked. I learned about it from a friend who was snorting 8mg of bupe a day and used it to kick that. He also is not dependent on opioids anymore either.

But yeah life experience doesnt matter when you're on CE arguing with people with no proof of Kratom being toxic yet saying it is just as damaging or dangerous as meth or dope off the street

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Lost_All_Senses posted...

Has anyone on the anti-kratom side ever had an opioid withdrawal? Cause you might be more understanding if you have.

I've experienced kratom withdrawal. It sucks but it sure as hell isn't hell or torture lol.
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how about dont do meth to start?
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