Poll of the Day > The Hong Kong protests are making me rethink my views on gun control

(+) Yeah! (+)

There are just nightmarish things happening to people there right now. The mainland police officers have been just grabbing young people off the street and they are never heard from again, sometimes theyre not even involved in protests.

Many believe the folks they arrest are being executed and having their organs harvested since there is already evidence that China has been harvesting organs from prisoners and Muslims in the country.

The video below really struck a chord with me. Police are holding a guy down and beating him so he cant defend himself, while at the same time covering his mouth so he cant yell out his own name, so that it makes it easier for him to disappear.

Weve got a lot of issues of gun violence in the US and I dont know what the solution is to all of those problems, but I also would never want people in our country to be in a position where they dont have the means to fight back against crimes against humanity like this.

Warning - video is violent and disturbing
https://mirrorbot.ga/mirrors/dat7xt/
---

I kinda agree.

Maybe America should smuggle guns into China via sales to Taiwan to support the revolutionaries...
...
---

Yeah if only the founding fathers thought of that and made an amendment or something
---

Mead posted...

There are just nightmarish things happening to people there right now. The mainland police officers have been just grabbing young people off the street and they are never heard from again, sometimes theyre not even involved in protests.

Many believe the folks they arrest are being executed and having their organs harvested since there is already evidence that China has been harvesting organs from prisoners and Muslims in the country.

The video below really struck a chord with me. Police are holding a guy down and beating him so he cant defend himself, while at the same time covering his mouth so he cant yell out his own name, so that it makes it easier for him to disappear.

Weve got a lot of issues of gun violence in the US and I dont know what the solution is to all of those problems, but I also would never want people in our country to be in a position where they dont have the means to fight back against crimes against humanity like this.

Warning - video is violent and disturbing
https://mirrorbot.ga/mirrors/dat7xt/

In all fairness, police brutality/violence is a relatively recent development for Hong Kong.

As for gun control... I don't know if having more tools for violence/harm is necessarily the answer, but that's not to say I support what's currently happening over there.

---

hypnox posted...

Yeah if only the founding fathers thought of that and made an amendment or something

Ive always supported the 2nd amendment

Just not without limits
---

Mead posted...

hypnox posted...

Yeah if only the founding fathers thought of that and made an amendment or something

Ive always supported the 2nd amendment

Just not without limits

And I've supported responsible gun training for a long time. I'm for everyone having a gun, but they need a license just like a driver's license to prove they know how to safely operate and occasionally repair their firearm.
---

Lokarin posted...

Mead posted...

hypnox posted...

Yeah if only the founding fathers thought of that and made an amendment or something

Ive always supported the 2nd amendment

Just not without limits

And I've supported responsible gun training for a long time. I'm for everyone having a gun, but they need a license just like a driver's license to prove they know how to safely operate and occasionally repair their firearm.

Yeah that makes sense to me too
---

My friend wants to move to china and teach English.

I have been trying to talk him out of it.
---

Oh really? It's almost like guns are a deterrent to violence against you.

Well, better late than never.

Mead posted...

hypnox posted...

Yeah if only the founding fathers thought of that and made an amendment or something

Ive always supported the 2nd amendment

Just not without limits

No limits. People overestimate the power of small arms.

Lokarin posted...

Mead posted...

hypnox posted...

Yeah if only the founding fathers thought of that and made an amendment or something

Ive always supported the 2nd amendment

Just not without limits

And I've supported responsible gun training for a long time. I'm for everyone having a gun, but they need a license just like a driver's license to prove they know how to safely operate and occasionally repair their firearm.

You don't need any training whatsoever. It's fucking simple. Put the mag in, charge the bolt/striker, fire.

The only training anybody needs is the common sense not to go around killing people or destroying property that doesn't deserve it.

Dfy556 posted...

Lokarin posted...

Mead posted...

hypnox posted...

Yeah if only the founding fathers thought of that and made an amendment or something

Ive always supported the 2nd amendment

Just not without limits

And I've supported responsible gun training for a long time. I'm for everyone having a gun, but they need a license just like a driver's license to prove they know how to safely operate and occasionally repair their firearm.

You don't need any training whatsoever. It's fucking simple. Put the mag in, charge the bolt/striker, fire.

The only training anybody needs is the common sense not to go around killing people or destroying property that doesn't deserve it.

And a lot of people with guns clearly need that training based on all the gun violence in the US
---

Dfy556 posted...

You don't need any training whatsoever. It's f***ing simple. Put the mag in, charge the bolt/striker, fire.

Umm... .not all guns
---

What?! Can you imagine what the situation would be with more access to guns during protests like that? A bloody massacre it would be.
---

Nichtcrawler X posted...

What?! Can you imagine what the situation would be with more access to guns during protests like that? A bloody massacre it would be.

Thered be a deterrent to the mainland police just abducting and beating helpless people the way they are at the moment
---

Lokarin posted...

Dfy556 posted...

You don't need any training whatsoever. It's f***ing simple. Put the mag in, charge the bolt/striker, fire.

Umm... .not all guns

No of course not all but if you're buying a gun today it's probably either a striker fired handgun or a semi auto rifle. I'm not breaking down every action for specificity just so someone won't call me out

Mead posted...

Thered be a deterrent to the mainland police just abducting and beating helpless people the way they are at the moment

Instead you want lethal force on site? That is how you get a civil war in the streets.
---

Mead posted...

Dfy556 posted...

Lokarin posted...

Mead posted...

hypnox posted...

Yeah if only the founding fathers thought of that and made an amendment or something

Ive always supported the 2nd amendment

Just not without limits

And I've supported responsible gun training for a long time. I'm for everyone having a gun, but they need a license just like a driver's license to prove they know how to safely operate and occasionally repair their firearm.

You don't need any training whatsoever. It's fucking simple. Put the mag in, charge the bolt/striker, fire.

The only training anybody needs is the common sense not to go around killing people or destroying property that doesn't deserve it.

And a lot of people with guns clearly need that training based on all the gun violence in the US

Yeah well that isn't my problem or yours and it sure isn't the government's either.

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Mead posted...

Thered be a deterrent to the mainland police just abducting and beating helpless people the way they are at the moment

Instead you want lethal force on site? That is how you get a civil war in the streets.

Maybe they deserve it. When your authorities are blatantly abducting people they deserve to get shot. Would you tolerate that?

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Mead posted...

Thered be a deterrent to the mainland police just abducting and beating helpless people the way they are at the moment

Instead you want lethal force on site? That is how you get a civil war in the streets.

Thats pretty much what is already happening there
---

Yes, I wonder how the notoriously tyrannical government of China would react to the protestors if they started killing police. I dont think the reaction from them would be to kill less people.
---

kangolcone posted...

Yes, I wonder how the notoriously tyrannical government of China would react to the protestors if they started killing police. I dont think the reaction from them would be to kill less people.

Tyranny should be fought, sometimes that takes bloodshed
---

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Mead posted...

Thered be a deterrent to the mainland police just abducting and beating helpless people the way they are at the moment

Instead you want lethal force on site? That is how you get a civil war in the streets.

Unfortunately, civil war is necessary to get Beijing's influence out of Hong Kong once and for all.
---

Im all for the second amendment. And honestly, despite being progressive in most of my views Ive never felt like we should be banning ANY type of guns.

But I wont stand for the right calling a shooting done by a person of color a terrorist attack and a shooting done by a white kid a troubled young man.

I also wont stand for the dog whistles and stupid shit that comes out of, not just this president but, the right.
---

The moment a protestor pulls out a gun is the moment protestors start getting ground into paste by machine gun fire.

Hong Kong is fucked but guns wouldn't save them at this point. The world needs to grow a pair and isolate China economically.
---

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Mead posted...

Thered be a deterrent to the mainland police just abducting and beating helpless people the way they are at the moment

Instead you want lethal force on site? That is how you get a civil war in the streets.

So your answer is for them to be defenseless and just accept unwarranted arrests and execution for no reason? That's the other side of the spectrum, it's either defend yourself or wait to be picked up and executed for any reason. With a government like that a Civil War would only help more than hurt the situation.

Until the people fight to make a change, these actions wont stop and unless they use guns and force to on equal footing, they would be lining up for a slaughter. Is that what you want to keep happening? Based on your comment it sure is!
---

Thanks for the personal attack, just what was missing from the discussion...

What I actually want is neither. Either situation is a losing situation.

Any course of events that reduces the number of surviving witnesses only favours the Chinese government in this situation, as they can just more easily alter the narrative. Giving them warranted excuses just makes it even easier and less of a false narrative.
---

Mead posted...

kangolcone posted...

Yes, I wonder how the notoriously tyrannical government of China would react to the protestors if they started killing police. I dont think the reaction from them would be to kill less people.

Tyranny should be fought, sometimes that takes bloodshed

In the US right now, there are people being held in captivity without basic supplies based on charges which dont even rise to the level of felony. Why arent you taking up guns against that?

Or maybe, its easier to sit behind a keyboard and type about how others should take up armed resistance in the face of almost certain death.
---

kangolcone posted...

Mead posted...

kangolcone posted...

Yes, I wonder how the notoriously tyrannical government of China would react to the protestors if they started killing police. I dont think the reaction from them would be to kill less people.

Tyranny should be fought, sometimes that takes bloodshed

In the US right now, there are people being held in captivity without basic supplies based on charges which dont even rise to the level of felony. Why arent you taking up guns against that?

Or maybe, its easier to sit behind a keyboard and type about how others should take up armed resistance in the face of almost certain death.

Yes it is obviously easier to post on a message board than fight to the death for a cause

Astounding deduction
---

Mead posted...

And a lot of people with guns clearly need that training based on all the gun violence in the US

Lol are you claiming that being trained to properly use a firearm will somehow lead to less violence? If anything, that will make shooters more effective. I think what you're referring to is something called anger management.

But also, lol... because I've been laughed at for making this very same fucking point

kangolcone posted...

Yes, I wonder how the notoriously tyrannical government of China would react to the protestors if they started killing police. I dont think the reaction from them would be to kill less people.

"The key to stopping oppression is to make it easier for the oppressor." Sound logic there, mate

Im saying that before someone should be allowed to have a gun they should have to show that they have a basic understanding of gun safety. Not just in the use of the weapon but knowing when its appropriate to use it and when not to, safe storage, and also the importance of taking steps to keep it out of the hands of others.

Think about the dumbest, least responsible person you know in your life, should that person be allowed to just go buy an assault rifle no questions asked?
---

Mead posted...

Im saying that before someone should be allowed to have a gun they should have to show that they have a basic understanding of gun safety. Not just in the use of the weapon but knowing when its appropriate to use it and when not to, safe storage, and also the importance of taking steps to keep it out of the hands of others.

Think about the dumbest, least responsible person you know in your life, should that person be allowed to just go buy an assault rifle no questions asked?

Like Switzerland. And for them its a mandatory for every citizen from my understanding.

---

Mead posted...

Im saying that before someone should be allowed to have a gun they should have to show that they have a basic understanding of gun safety. Not just in the use of the weapon but knowing when its appropriate to use it and when not to, safe storage, and also the importance of taking steps to keep it out of the hands of others.

Think about the dumbest, least responsible person you know in your life, should that person be allowed to just go buy an assault rifle no questions asked?

Sure I get that and I support being required to take some kind of safety course. I dont, however, believe that would make much of a dent in the gun violence in the US. I think restrictions due to prior violent offenses is probably the most effective deterrent. But yeah, maybe that small barrier might deter jim bob from going out and buying a gun and shooting someone outside his double wide. But even then with private sales, (which is how a ton of neighborhood rednecks acquire firearms), they'd probably just ignore those laws regardless unless the charge was significantly more than a slap on the wrist

Disarming a population, or instilling the idea that being armed is unneeded, is a precursor to being able to kill a just revolution before it can even start.

Step 1: Disarm the population
Step 2: Silence dissidents
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit
---

Yeah the only way to stop violence is definitely with more violence thats always worked 100% of the time ow8
---

Mead posted...

Nichtcrawler X posted...

What?! Can you imagine what the situation would be with more access to guns during protests like that? A bloody massacre it would be.

Thered be a deterrent to the mainland police just abducting and beating helpless people the way they are at the moment

No, there wouldn't. It would give the Chinese government all the justification they needed to move in with the military, since they could now credibly make the case that they were dealing with an armed rebellion, rather than civil unrest.

The protesters would not win that fight. Nobody wins a fight with the military, except for another military. It would be a fucking bloodbath.
---

FatalAccident posted...

Yeah the only way to stop violence is definitely with more violence thats always worked 100% of the time ow8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_theory
---

FatalAccident posted...

Yeah the only way to stop violence is definitely with more violence thats always worked 100% of the time ow8

Mutually assured destruction leads to less violence, unless you are dealing with a lunatic
---

lol, the western media is so biased. They seem to have ignored the part where the protestors were the initial aggressors in nearly all the incidents throwing rocks, firebombs, and whatnot at cops and buildings.

Or off duty cops being ambushed at their homes?

And did they report anything about letting a murderer get away with murder because of the anti extradition protest?
---

Dfy556 posted...

People overestimate the power of small arms.

It's actually quite hard to shoot something with a pistol anything above a short distance.

It's not like movies or games where pistols just do less damage, hitting at all is hard.
---

darkknight109 posted...

No, there wouldn't. It would give the Chinese government all the justification they needed to move in with the military, since they could now credibly make the case that they were dealing with an armed rebellion, rather than civil unrest.

The protesters would not win that fight. Nobody wins a fight with the military, except for another military. It would be a fucking bloodbath.

I really doubt the chinese government wants another infamous Tiananmen square scenario to never live down

VeeVees posted...

lol, the western media is so biased. They seem to have ignored the part where the protestors were the initial aggressors in nearly all the incidents throwing rocks, firebombs, and whatnot at cops and buildings.

Or off duty cops being ambushed at their homes?

And did they report anything about letting a murderer get away with murder because of the anti extradition protest?

Every movement and person in history has done something wrong, if you just go looking to find the bad that's what you'll find

I look at the good and see if it outweighs the bad, and imo when you are fighting for liberty there is nothing bad enough to outweigh the good, freedom should be held above all else
---

FatalAccident posted...

Yeah the only way to stop violence is definitely with more violence thats always worked 100% of the time ow8

Actually, it has worked out pretty well a few times. You think we should've let nazi Germany take over the world without a fight?

VeeVees posted...

lol, the western media is so biased. They seem to have ignored the part where the protestors were the initial aggressors in nearly all the incidents throwing rocks, firebombs, and whatnot at cops and buildings.

Or off duty cops being ambushed at their homes?

And did they report anything about letting a murderer get away with murder because of the anti extradition protest?

Hey some of these protesters threw rocks at us I guess we had better start abducting them indiscriminately and harvest their organs

#JustChinaThings
---

Mead posted...

Hey some of these protesters threw rocks at us I guess we had better start abducting them indiscriminately and harvest their organs

#JustChinaThings

Quit being so biased! It's just their culture!

LMFAO
Exactly what I'm talking about. Because cops aren't just normal people working at their jobs and deserve to get beaten and burnt in the name of "liberty". More specifically, liberty for criminals so they don't get extradited and face justice for actual murder.
---

OhhhJa posted...

I really doubt the chinese government wants another infamous Tiananmen square scenario to never live down

Yes, Tiananmen Square was a horrible massacre and then China learned their lesson and never did anything authoritarian ever again.

Sarcasm aside, China paid little price for the massacre, and the world really didn't hold them to account in any meaningful way. And, of course, their position is much different today - back then they were an isolated nation, with their one superpower buddy in the USSR facing rapidly flagging fortunes and being just two years away from dissolution. Today, they *are* a superpower, one with ties to virtually every nation on the planet.

More to the point, while China probably wants to avoid the national embarrassment of another slaughter of unarmed protesters (probably the only reason why they haven't moved in the military already), if those protesters had guns I don't believe for a minute they would hesitate. Again, there's a big difference between civil protests and armed rebellion and it wouldn't take much for China to paint armed protesters as the latter.
---

VeeVees posted...

LMFAO
Exactly what I'm talking about. Because cops aren't just normal people working at their jobs and deserve to get beaten and burnt in the name of "liberty". More specifically, liberty for criminals so they don't get extradited and face justice for actual murder.

These cops absolutely are not normal people

Theyre thugs from the mainland that know full well they are abducting people and sending them to their deaths.There was a video a couple weeks ago of them abruptly arresting a high school student who wasnt even involved with any protests simply because he had a backpack and his family hasnt seen him since(and likely never will again)
---

If anyone uses tiktok you might want to consider not supporting the service going forward

The app now censors any mention of tianamen, Tibet, or anything related to lgbt topics, regardless of what country you use it in
---