Board 8 > Zoe Quin strikes again (Part Two)

(+) Yeah! (+)

achoux posted...

Far right aside, the evidence presented in the article does raise the question on Quinn's allegation, no? I'm sure the dates are more than 'slightly off'. Things that Quinn said just doesn't add up.

Gatarix posted...

It's not about the dates, it's about her own tweets refuting a lot of her claims against Alec.

Corrik7 posted...

From everything I see, Zoe is not a credible source and questionably has a few screws loose.

Nothing in that post refutes what she or others have said in this situation. It's just another character attack. Whether intentional or not, you're GGers. After 5+ years, I'm not sure which is worse tbh. But here you still are.

There is also a 100% guarantee that this line of discussion reveals itself to be about denying abuse claims from women (and definitely also men). It happened in this topic series already. So don't act surprised when people flatly refuse to engage with this.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Dudes sister literally already admitted he did it.

Victims of abuse put on happy facades, thats how it can go on for so long.

It's not just about having a happy demeanor, it's about specific claims being disproven. She claims to be "isolated" when she's actually contemporaneously and publicly chatting with lots of people. She claims to be "physically confined" when she's actually going to stores (unless she was lying about that, to maintain a facade). She claims she fled a violent man in fear, but she was planning in advance around her departure and working closely with said violent man up until the moment of her flight (unless she was lying about that, to maintain her facade).

And if she was lying about all that, it doesn't do wonders for her credibility either.

I'm just saying, if this was a mafia game, I would 100% not buy the claim.

Regarding the sister, I assume she knew her brother was a general asshole to a lot of people (which is why she admits: he was in a dark place, he hurt a lot of people (and I definitely believe that part)). But she would have no way of knowing the specifics of the Zoe/Alec situation.
---

Corrik7 posted...

It is funny seeing how black and white people are. Like Tony and Rock have to utterly believe every last facet of the story.

From everything I see, Zoe is not a credible source and questionably has a few screws loose.

Lmao no dude.

I just believe his sister, best friend, and literally everyone who worked with him over internet randos who didnt know him?

Crazy concept, I know.
---

Gatarix posted...

I'm just saying, if this was a mafia game, I would 100% not buy the claim.

Excellent analogy for sexual assault and suicide
---

Gatarix posted...

It's not just about having a happy demeanor, it's about specific claims being disproven. She claims to be "isolated" when she's actually contemporaneously and publicly chatting with lots of people. She claims to be "physically confined" when she's actually going to stores (unless she was lying about that, to maintain a facade).

Did she tweet about going to stores every single day? Listen to yourself dude. Youre accusing a person of lying because they used Twitter and coordinated with a person they lived with on an international move, instead of fleeing in the dead of the night.

Is it possible she exaggerated? Sure, but literally none of the evidence provided proves she lied.

An innocent guy doesnt wish a fake accuser well and then commit suicideespecially one who struggled with a verified mental illness that made him vindictive and caused him to blame others.

Gatarix posted...

I'm just saying, if this was a mafia game, I would 100% not buy the claim.

Yet you 100% buy that shes making it up, despite admitting other Townies scanned him guilty? Interesting.
---

"She acted like things were fine on Twitter so it must all be made up!" is a pretty weird conclusion to just latch onto so readily.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lmao no dude.

I just believe his sister, best friend, and literally everyone who worked with him over internet randos who didnt know him?

Crazy concept, I know.

She never said he did what Zoe said he did.

So, again, you are just black and white following every word said to you regarding it by someone with less than stellar credibility.

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Is it possible she exaggerated? Sure, but literally none of the evidence provided proves she lied.

An innocent guy doesnt wish a fake accuser well and then commit suicideespecially one who struggled with a verified mental illness that made him vindictive and caused him to blame others.

Yeah, I think exaggerations are something which 100% would be a credibility issue in such a serious claim.

Also, glad you know how innocent people act and people who commit suicide.

= /

I bet you are one of those people who say innocent people never confess to crimes either lol.

---

She said he had darkness, hurt people, and wished Zoe well.

So again, you are just black and white following...
---

Corrik7 posted...

I bet you are one of those people who say innocent people never confess to crimes either lol.

Lmao Corrik you have literally been this person, mr the law = morally good.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

She said he had darkness, hurt people, and wished Zoe well.

So again, you are just black and white following...

Which for the nth time now, does not say anywhere he did what Zoe said.

There is a huge difference between hey he was an asshole in our relationship and what Zoe claims. That is why exaggerations are credibility issues in these situations.

There is a huge difference between hey I got drunk and we had sex, and I got drunk and was raped.

Exaggerations are absolutely credibility issues. If you believe she may have exaggerated, then you cannot believe she is credible either regarding the issue.

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lmao Corrik you have literally been this person, mr the law = morally good.

This post doesn't make sense.


---

Corrik7 posted...

I bet you are one of those people who say innocent people never confess to crimes either lol

If an innocent person lies about doing a crime, that isn't great for their credibility is it? How can you trust that they didn't commit the crime anymore?
---

wait are we mass claiming I'm the doctor

---

extha taught me a valuable lesson in the last topic about how i shouldnt just believe these stories when they come out so im gonna go ahead and put that into practice and not believe this article debunking the claims
---

I can never get into this gamer gate stuff far enough to form a legitimate opinion. Seems like it's always about the shittiest people getting mad about slightly less shitty women.

But I've been reading some of this Zoe Quin stuff and I have to say after living briefly with a pathological liar who accused me and my ex of confining her to her house (in truth we were trying literally anything to get her out of our house) this whole story has my hackles raised. As a random dude on the internet I would probably err on side of "Don't trust what Zoe says, in this, or quite likely any, situation" so if you could please add my opinion to the pile of hot takes, I would appreciate it.
---

Yeah, Everytime I asked what gamergate is about both sides tell me different things then both accuse me of trolling after I don't get it. Lol

---

This is as good a time as any to point out that I've had Ulti tagged as "Pathological Liar" for years, lol.

If there's anyone who knows how to identify one, it's this guy.

Obviously the most correct answer is that she did it for the attention, which is why a quick glance at her twitter shows she went from dozens of tweets a day to zero since this happened. Mission accomplished!
---

I'll never forget when Ulti claimed to have won a copy of a book that wasn't released. Then he doubled down and claimed it was an advance copy, but then like a month later the author was talking about how the book wasn't even finished yet, so Ulti tripled down that it was a super secret advance manuscript of what had been written thus far.

And then finally he just pretended he had been trolling the entire time to "own the libs."
---

I'll never forget when I blocked Ulti and b8 improved significantly for it.
---

HashtagSEP posted...

I'll never forget when Ulti claimed to have won a copy of a book that wasn't released. Then he doubled down and claimed it was an advance copy, but then like a month later the author was talking about how the book wasn't even finished yet, so Ulti tripled down that it was a super secret advance manuscript of what had been written thus far.

And then finally he just pretended he had been trolling the entire time to "own the libs."

He also made 100k on Bitcoin. Lol

---

Corrik7 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

I'll never forget when Ulti claimed to have won a copy of a book that wasn't released. Then he doubled down and claimed it was an advance copy, but then like a month later the author was talking about how the book wasn't even finished yet, so Ulti tripled down that it was a super secret advance manuscript of what had been written thus far.

And then finally he just pretended he had been trolling the entire time to "own the libs."

He also made 100k on Bitcoin. Lol

He also made like 600k on a day 1 bet that Trump would win, lol.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

An innocent guy doesnt wish a fake accuser well and then commit suicideespecially one who struggled with a verified mental illness that made him vindictive and caused him to blame others.

...but they do.
innocent people committing suicide over false accusations isn't unheard of by any means, especially when said accusation is sexual assault or abuse. especially if they're struggling with verified mental illness.

that's not evidence in either direction and a really crappy argument.

Gatarix posted...

But the allegations that she was abusive - being jealous/controlling, forcing her boyfriend to cut ties with female friends while she was cheating on him, gaslighting him and other forms of emotional abuse - I don't believe those were ever disproven. They just kind of got swept under the rug because everyone fixated on the games journalism angle (which IMO is the least interesting angle to pursue). Unless there's something I'm missing because I admittedly stopped following the Zoe/Eron news after a certain point.

you're missing the part where she abused the law by placing a gag order that shouldn't have been applicable in the first place and said order also was, according to first amendment scholars, unconstitutional. the legal fight's the most damning part about their relationship.
---

foolm0r0n posted...

Nothing in that post refutes what she or others have said in this situation. It's just another character attack. Whether intentional or not, you're GGers. After 5+ years, I'm not sure which is worse tbh. But here you still are.

There is also a 100% guarantee that this line of discussion reveals itself to be about denying abuse claims from women (and definitely also men). It happened in this topic series already. So don't act surprised when people flatly refuse to engage with this.

I wasn't even there when this gamergate stuff happens.

I was leaning towards believing Quinn before this article came out. But now, not so much. It appears that some people only believe what they wanted to believe, despite presented with evidence that goes against that belief and called that character attack. How dare we question the victim (alleged) right?

It is ok not to engage with topics that made you uncomfortable I guess? And I'm sure nobody is forcing you either. If there is, you can publish his/her name on twitter and I'm sure everyone will have your back.

achoux posted...

I wasn't even there when this gamergate stuff happens.

That's why I said intentionally or not. You weren't there for Galileo either but you don't go around suggesting the Earth is the center of the universe. That is what you are doing in this conversation when you post like this. It's just an FYI from me to you, in case you genuinely don't know the movement you're joining. You don't have to listen.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

I'll never forget when I blocked Ulti and b8 improved significantly for it.

Yeah 2006 was a great year

---

i should've never bumped this to give my Les Mis opinion
---

I didnt say innocent people dont kill themselves, I said innocent people dont wish their (fake) accusers well and then kill themselves.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I didnt say innocent people dont kill themselves, I said innocent people dont wish their (fake) accusers well and then kill themselves.

Yeah this is a fair point that I hadn't thought of. I could see an innocent guy committing suicide after being publicly accused/shamed and having his friends and associates drop him like a hot potato, especially since he had a long history of suicidal ideation. But then why would he wish his accuser well?

But I also can't reconcile all Zoe's tweets with someone terrified of physical retaliation and needing a friend's help to flee.

I can reconcile it with the sister's account, that Alec was in a dark place and hurt people because of it. I believe he was a general asshole and surely that wouldn't exclude his girlfriend. And the tweet evidence does seem to support them breaking up right after Zoe's exit. But Zoe's accusations are a lot more specific and a lot more damning then "general asshole in a dark place" and that's the part I have trouble believing.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I didnt say innocent people dont kill themselves, I said innocent people dont wish their (fake) accusers well and then kill themselves.

How would you know this

---

Drakeryn posted...

But then why would he wish his accuser well?

You're asking for a rational action while dealing with someone irrational who is committing an insane act.

Could come up with any reason and it'd work. Easiest of which being leaving without feeling any guilt. Maybe he knows he wasn't that good of a guy but didn't abuse her the way she says he did. Maybe he was just letting go of everything. Maybe he was being passive aggressive.
---

Kinglicious posted...

Easiest of which being leaving without feeling any guilt. Maybe he knows he wasn't that good of a guy but didn't abuse her the way she says he did.

Incredible that you would concede maybe he wasnt a good guy but find it unfathomable a guy with nobody saying he wasnt abusive would abuse someone.
---

Drakeryn posted...

But I also can't reconcile all Zoe's tweets with someone terrified of physical retaliation and needing a friend's help to flee.

Ask women you know about their similar situations then. A video game message board topic entirely of dudes isn't the place to find this understanding.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Kinglicious posted...

Easiest of which being leaving without feeling any guilt. Maybe he knows he wasn't that good of a guy but didn't abuse her the way she says he did.

Incredible that you would concede maybe he wasnt a good guy but find it unfathomable a guy with nobody saying he wasnt abusive would abuse someone.

Where did i ever say this was unfathomable? Do you have me confused with someone else because this doesn't make any sense towards me.
---

so has anyone attacked Scott Benson's account yet for being uncredible or is it still all about Zoe Quinn for some strange, indeterminate reason?
---

Kinglicious posted...

who is committing an insane act.

I kind of resent the notion that suicide is an insane act.

---

It does go against the inherent instincts of man.

Insane isn't an accurate word, though.
---

Kinglicious posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Kinglicious posted...

Easiest of which being leaving without feeling any guilt. Maybe he knows he wasn't that good of a guy but didn't abuse her the way she says he did.

Incredible that you would concede maybe he wasnt a good guy but find it unfathomable a guy with nobody saying he wasnt abusive would abuse someone.

Where did i ever say this was unfathomable? Do you have me confused with someone else because this doesn't make any sense towards me.

I mean you named multiple reasons and none of them were he did it and was apologizing.

Unless Im misunderstanding your first part and you meant he was guilty over actually doing what he was accused of, but the very next sentence gives the impression you didnt.
---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

so has anyone attacked Scott Benson's account yet for being uncredible or is it still all about Zoe Quinn for some strange, indeterminate reason?

from what I understand, Scott's account has also come under heavy attack for various reasons:

1. He's trying to make things all about himself [I think this is fine, though. it's a personal account, of course it's going to be about what happened to him personally]

2. The account is, in places, vague enough that people question whether Scott was partially at fault for the events in question. For instance, he says that Alec threatened to kill himself on various occasions if Scott didn't do what he wanted. That's obviously not a good look, but what did Scott do to precipitate that kind of reaction? Or Alec having a (largely unspecified) breakdown - what did Scott do there?

3. Not following through on a joint project is jerk behavior, but it's not "abuse." It diminishes real abuse when you call having a flaky co-worker "abuse."

4. Some people are cynically saying Scott's acting to keep all the NITW profits to himself and away from Alec's estate. oh I hate capitalism but gimme those sweet NITW profits plz

5. Other people are cynically saying that he's virtue signaling (my close friend/associate has been accused of sexual assault GOTTA DISTANCE MYSELF FAST) and it's kinda crappy to ditch a friend in favor of randos, like where's the loyalty? [though IMO it sounds like Alec was a pretty awful "friend" to begin with so I think it makes sense to ditch him]

I'm probably missing stuff but those are some of the main talking points
---

Gatarix posted...

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

so has anyone attacked Scott Benson's account yet for being uncredible or is it still all about Zoe Quinn for some strange, indeterminate reason?

from what I understand, Scott's account has also come under heavy attack for various reasons:

1. He's trying to make things all about himself [I think this is fine, though. it's a personal account, of course it's going to be about what happened to him personally]

2. The account is, in places, vague enough that people question whether Scott was partially at fault for the events in question. For instance, he says that Alec threatened to kill himself on various occasions if Scott didn't do what he wanted. That's obviously not a good look, but what did Scott do to precipitate that kind of reaction? Or Alec having a (largely unspecified) breakdown - what did Scott do there?

3. Not following through on a joint project is jerk behavior, but it's not "abuse." It diminishes real abuse when you call having a flaky co-worker "abuse."

4. Some people are cynically saying Scott's acting to keep all the NITW profits to himself and away from Alec's estate. oh I hate capitalism but gimme those sweet NITW profits plz

5. Other people are cynically saying that he's virtue signaling (my close friend/associate has been accused of sexual assault GOTTA DISTANCE MYSELF FAST) and it's kinda crappy to ditch a friend in favor of randos, like where's the loyalty? [though IMO it sounds like Alec was a pretty awful "friend" to begin with so I think it makes sense to ditch him]

I'm probably missing stuff but those are some of the main talking points

So basically, the talking points are pure conjecture and nothing actually reputable.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

So basically, the talking points are pure conjecture and nothing actually reputable.

Pretty much! Admittedly I am getting this third-hand from a friend of mine who browses Reddit a lot. My personal take is that I like Scott (I follow the guy on twitter, he seems cool) and hope that none of it is true, but don't know well enough to refute any of it.

(Although I do agree with the argument that "this isn't abuse")
---

Gatarix posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

So basically, the talking points are pure conjecture and nothing actually reputable.

Pretty much! Admittedly I am getting this third-hand from a friend of mine who browses Reddit a lot. My personal take is that I like Scott (I follow the guy on twitter, he seems cool) and hope that none of it is true, but don't know well enough to refute any of it.

(Although I do agree with the argument that "this isn't abuse")

Threatening suicide if someone doesnt do what you want isnt abuse?
---

My take on his essay is that the abuse he was talking about was Alec repeatedly blaming him for a potential suicide, which absolutely is abuse. Also, related to the project, I got the impression that Alec was constantly putting the blame for everything on Steve and belittling everything he did. I guess its a judgment call if you want to call that abuse, but its definitely more serious than just flaking out.

---

Yeah I feel like you absolutely do not get to pull the "oh Alec was mentally troubled and was acting out or pressured into it" card if you are also taking the position that emotional abuse isn't real abuse.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Threatening suicide if someone doesnt do what you want isnt abuse?

It's obviously an asshole thing to do. But I dunno, it just seems really weird to call "abuse" something that happens between co-workers collaborating on a project for work. It's not a family or intimate situation. It's an arms length professional relation.

If someone's boyfriend kept threatening suicide if she didn't obey then that would be abusive, but I can't really see it in the workplace.
---

That's a really weird stance and sounds more like wanting to make excuses for the guy
---

Gatarix posted...

It's obviously an asshole thing to do. But I dunno, it just seems really weird to call "abuse" something that happens between co-workers collaborating on a project for work. It's not a family or intimate situation. It's an arms length professional relation.

If someone's boyfriend kept threatening suicide if she didn't obey then that would be abusive, but I can't really see it in the workplace.

Well this is a hot take.

---