Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 234: Epsteins;Gate

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jakyl25 posted...

Please tell me you dont believe the Clintons had Seth Rich murdered

I don't, no.
There's definitely a lot of suspicious deaths around them though. That's where all the conspiracies grow, the continued list of bodies that just so happen to die off in peculiar ways. Can't fault any conspiracy theory there and it long predates Trump or the most recent election cycle. It's been talked about for literally over a decade. Do i believe there's something there, not really. Is it bizarre, definitely.
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https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1160305065325977600

I genuinely had to check if this was a real tweet

Nrrr posted...

The conspiracy theory actually seems to be that Epstein isn't really the body and it was a switch, not that the Clinton's killed him. But regardless of what conspiracy theory you believe about Epstein, absolutely zero percent chance he killed himself, and the Epstein case has revealed that the wealthy and powerful are largely compromised by intelligence assets and have incredible class solidarity. It's pretty bleak.

The conspiracy theories around this are going to be so stupid. Everyone will think they know how a jail works and imagine that it is impossible for someone to kill themselves in one when in reality it isn't all that uncommon at all especially after being denied bail for something they obviously did. Like if there was foul play here, where was it? The guy obviously wanted to kill himself and then gasp he did.

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What are guards even for if they cant stop rape, assault and suicide in a completely enclosed space where they constantly know where every inmate is, define where they can go, and have cameras.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1160294184424787970?s=21

Rubio is right, and I expect he will denounce Trump any minute now...!

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hockeydude15 posted...

Like if there was foul play here, where was it?

one confirmed thing: a major figure in a major scandal who supposedly had just tried to commit suicide was taken off suicide watch in less than a week.

not confirmed: cameras malfunctioned when he died.

neither makes any sense.
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The simplest explanation is incompetence. It should, of course, be investigated, but he was murdered is much less likely than pedophile who previously attempted suicide and who is going to spend the rest of his life in prison kills himself on the watch of negligent prison staff

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hockeydude15 posted...

The conspiracy theories around this are going to be so stupid. Everyone will think they know how a jail works and imagine that it is impossible for someone to kill themselves in one when in reality it isn't all that uncommon at all especially after being denied bail for something they obviously did. Like if there was foul play here, where was it? The guy obviously wanted to kill himself and then gasp he did.

The stupid thing is believing that Jeff Epstein wanted to kill himself, obviously he could figure out a way to do it. This is a guy who had plans to like freeze his head and dick to live forever lol and the justice system treated him with kid gloves last time. The body switched conspiracy is honestly more likely than Jeff Epstein killing himself.

"pedophile who previously attempted suicide" is a really, really low key way of saying "billionaire with ties to people at the highest level of governments who ran a child sex trafficking ring and has people accusing him and many of those people of major crimes."

he supposedly tried to kill himself, he was promptly put on suicide watch, he was taken off it six days later and somehow dies 12 days after that. incompetence is possible but that definitely sounds like "murdered" is the more likely option.
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Some info on suicide watch (in a clinical setting) and an explanation of why they dont continue at full intensity indefinitely (which I had been wondering about myself):

https://twitter.com/czedwards/status/1160297568837832704?s=21

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Wanglicious posted...

"pedophile who previously attempted suicide" is a really, really low key way of saying "billionaire with ties to people at the highest level of governments who ran a child sex trafficking ring and has people accusing him and many of those people of major crimes."

he supposedly tried to kill himself, he was promptly put on suicide watch, he was taken off it six days later and somehow dies 12 days after that. incompetence is possible but that definitely sounds like "murdered" is the more likely option.

No. It sounds like the guy who attempted suicide went and committed suicide.

He's an actual billionaire, even if he got the entire book thrown at him he was never going into Max-Sec genpop and could have lived relatively comfortably just in total isolation.

I don't see a guy like that killing himself before even going to trial.
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I dont think you have a very good understanding of prison.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

comfortably just in total isolation.

Also read this.

Repeatedly.

Until it sinks in.

Going from a life of obscene wealth, influence, and power to the rest of your life in prison, and being a child rapist (something even other prisoners hate with a passion) seems like enough of a reason to not want to spend time in prison.

Not to mention, he's still leaving behind a huge amount of evidence in terms of what the feds will seize. At best, this inconveniences the investigators. Epstein's word alone wouldn't take anyone down, he'd have to have some sort of evidence to corroborate his claims.
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I think it depends on what that evidence is. If he has tapes, for example, theyre all going down either way. If, however, he just has a list of his fellow child rapists I would imagine that wouldnt stand up as well in court without his testimony attached.

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Even with his testimony there would still need to be solid evidence to even convict any of these people.

Epstein was likely only going to take down the people he had real dirt on. Saying "I saw x rape a child" and offering no other proof than a plane ticket showing he might have been there at the time wasn't going to go very far.
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The idea that someone murdered Epstein is kind of crazy.

Keep in mind that a coverup would take a lot of work. At bare minimum, you'd have to have one guard in on it. And do you really think a prison security guard is trained to make murder look like a suicide? Oh, and of course you'd have to have someone paying the guard off. So there's a connection there that has to be covered up. But again, it's unlikely the guard just happens to have the skills to make it look like a suicide and succeed (not to mention you then risk Epstein surviving the attack and telling everyone.) So many things could go wrong, especially in a prison.

Involve the government--and you're just adding more people to the conspiracy, and potential weak links in the chain. (If Trump were aware of having Epstein killed, he'd probably be denying it constantly on tv)

I think it's far more likely Epstein, in desperation, took his own life to avoid the consequences of his actions.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I don't see a guy like that killing himself before even going to trial.

This is the important part you guys skipped over.

Hes literally an incredibly well-connected billionaire.

With all the leverage he undeniably had over powerful people, and the best team money can buy, his fate was far too uncertain to kill himself already.
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Dancedreamer posted...

Keep in mind that a coverup would take a lot of work. At bare minimum, you'd have to have one guard in on it. And do you really think a prison security guard is trained to make murder look like a suicide?

I mean its impossible and borderline pointless to speculate on how, but absolutely yes:

prison guards probably personally see more suicide attempts than anybody, and setting aside that prison guards are often incredibly corrupt (google it, its horrifying), their job requires them to get all up in a suicide crime scene to make sure its not a prisoner trying to pull something.
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Leafeon13N posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

comfortably just in total isolation.

Also read this.

Repeatedly.

Until it sinks in.

Tony keeps failing to follow this program.

Also Ill say its completely possible he did kill himself, but I definitely dont trust prisons enough to be certain, especially when those same prisons let a high-profile person at risk of suicide, literally as high profile as it gets, commit suicide.
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Leafeon13N posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

comfortably just in total isolation.

Also read this.

Repeatedly.

Until it sinks in.

Tony keeps failing to follow this program.

Read the part about one of the most powerful men in the world not even waiting until trial.

Then read it again.
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You first.

You are literally always mr gullible conspiracy theorist in the topic btw. If you really need me to state the hard truth.

Leafeon13N posted...

You are literally always mr gullible conspiracy theorist in the topic btw. If you really need me to state the hard truth.

Uh, you may have me confused for someone else?

Unless you count me saying Bernie got screwed a conspiracy? Thats like...literally the only thing I believe that qualifies.
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Gullible is just believing the reports about someone that tons of powerful people want dead because they are in the documents being unsealed killed themselves in prison rather than just using their power to get out of it again (literally everyone who helped him is in the Trump administration too!)

Being under house arrest is bad for normal folks because its boring. But for all we know he has a movie theater, restaurant and theme park in his mansion.

He wasn't under house arrest. The judge rightfully decided that the risks of Epstein fleeing or trying to influence witnesses was too great and remanded him.

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Nrrr posted...

Gullible is just believing the reports about someone that tons of powerful people want dead because they are in the documents being unsealed killed themselves in prison rather than just using their power to get out of it again (literally everyone who helped him is in the Trump administration too!)

Or sometimes no amount of power, money, or influence can save you from a situation.
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https://twitter.com/shujaxhaider/status/1160260627094544384

Keep in mind that a significant number of prison 'suicides' are likely murder being covered up. At this same exact prison, a guard was arrested for taking 50k to give special treatment to an inmate. It's totally conceivable that foul play is what happened.

Do you have links to this information?
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Links to something being conceivable?
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To "a significant number of prison suicides being murder" and "a guard was recently paid $50k to give special treatment to an inmate" which I can't tell means he was treated poorly or well.
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Like the woman who does psychiatric evaluations put together a far more compelling case that a man with unlimited wealth, freedoms, and power was suddenly going to lose all of them in a horrible fashion simply decided to go with a route that gives him the easiest out.

I mean, I've dealt with multiple suicides in my life. The simplest solution is usually the right one: they felt like they had no way out of their current situation and chose the one escape they thought they had.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sandra_Bland

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/nyregion/victor-casado-zarrab-bribe.html
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Anecdotal evidence. The best kind of evidence.

Stop.

Cool, two incidents. Hey, based on two incidents of illegal immigrants committing murder that means Trump is absolutely right about needing a border wall, too, right?

Not to mention the incident you cite was literally her dying due to incompetence by the jail staff, which is to say Bland still wanted to hang herself. So how does that support the idea that Epstein was actually just plain murdered?
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Its literally inconceivable to you guys?
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Two Muslims attacked someone, better ban all Muslims!
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yeah, epstein wasn't under house arrest of any kind, it was initially suicide watch in a prison where he was supposed to be getting checked every 15 minutes with almost nothing on him. it's a prison that has been very good at preventing suicides with its last one taking place 21 years ago and more recent former inmates have outright said it's impossible to kill yourself.

but he's dead now. mysteriously taken off suicide watch within a week of an attempt, the frequent checks that were supposed to happen didn't happen, all the day after 2000 pages related to him were unsealed by the courts.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Its literally inconceivable to you guys?

There's like a 1% chance he was murdered and a 99% chance he killed himself.

Why is it that the simplest explanation shouldn't be the default one until significant evidence is shown otherwise?
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Im just confused what this steadfast trust in the American prison is based on.

I already said its possible he suicided. But he was almost certainly the most high-profile, highly connected, richest pre-trial person to ever do so, which makes it naturally suspicious.
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There is absolutely zero evidence besides the word of the prison that he killed himself, which is fucking anecdotal evidence. There is motive for both suicide and murder. You are just believing what you want, I don't have a way to prove anything and neither do any of you. You can't win an argument that is just opinions, but I think it's insanely naive to think people didn't want Epstein dead or that Epstein wanted to die based on the situation.

Also apparently every cell in the shu has two cameras, one of which is on the bed (where his body was found).

So if he did, its been recorded.

I guess well see.
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TheRock1525 posted...

There's like a 1% chance he was murdered and a 99% chance he killed himself.

in a place where that should not be possible, has not been possible for over two decades, with people who were actually there saying "this is impossible."

yeah no.
if you're looking for a simple answer you're gonna get to either a) murder, or b) a lot of money and help from people inside to help him kill himself. at which point you then gotta look into the ones who did the assist.

the simplest answer is that his death was not something caused solely by his own hands.
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Like why would they bother with a failed attempt 18 days ago? These people are so incompetent that they can't properly murder him the first time? And now they do it 18 days later just to feed into conspiracy theories that he was killed for what he knew. He was taken off of suicide watch 10 days ago. Why bother waiting 10 days? He could have been questioned more in that time, given up more information to hurt other people. Fuck, there was literally rumblings of his pending arrest before they finally took him in, why not take care of him on the outside where there's much less risk of him talking? Fucking use the same heart-attack inducing gun that took out Breitbart.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Like why would they bother with a failed attempt 18 days ago? These people are so incompetent that they can't properly murder him the first time? And now they do it 18 days later just to feed into conspiracy theories that he was killed for what he knew. He was taken off of suicide watch 10 days ago. Why bother waiting 10 days? He could have been questioned more in that time, given up more information to hurt other people. Fuck, there was literally rumblings of his pending arrest before they finally took him in, why not take care of him on the outside where there's much less risk of him talking? Fucking use the same heart-attack inducing gun that took out Breitbart.

The first attempt was literally reported by different, credible sources to be possibly a real suicide attempt, a fake suicide attempt, and possibly as an attempted murder. Two out of those three fit the murder narrative, only one fits the suicide narrative. We don't have any hard evidence of anything and likely never will.

Nrrr posted...

There is absolutely zero evidence besides the word of the prison that he killed himself, which is fucking anecdotal evidence. There is motive for both suicide and murder. You are just believing what you want, I don't have a way to prove anything and neither do any of you. You can't win an argument that is just opinions, but I think it's insanely naive to think people didn't want Epstein dead or that Epstein wanted to die based on the situation.

And a lot of people want Bernie Madoff dead but he's still around and kicking, sadly.

And yeah, Epstein could be paranoid enough that he thought killing himself was the best thing he could do, which is once again radically different from being murdered.

And it's absolutely not anecdotal evidence. Do you even know what the word means?
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TheRock1525 posted...

He was taken off of suicide watch 10 days ago.

which is something that should have written psychiatric evaluation.
now in what world does an evaluation go "well, I see you tried to kill yourself six days ago, I guess you're okay now!"

hell, if you're going to believe that pedophiles are at higher risk of suicide, how exactly does that work with the above?
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