Poll of the Day > I've been watching the Raimi Spider-Man movie (the one with Tobey Maguire)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Because I can only watch a few minutes each day.
>_>

Spoilers, obviously.

Peter just offered to treat Mary Jane to a cheeseburger. "Sky's the limit," he said, "Up to $7.84." Damn. That's a pretty good deal for a non-fast food cheeseburger.

Man, this movie is so good. Excited to see the second one again. But I still have to finish the first one.
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What kind of life situation are you in when you can only watch a few mins of a film a day lol
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SpeedDemon20 posted...

Man, this movie is so good.

Eh, there were things I liked and disliked. The Goblin armor would have been fine if they didn't go for such goofy gestures at times, like when he's just talking on the rooftop.
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FatalAccident posted...

What kind of life situation are you in when you can only watch a few mins of a film a day lol

Just life stuff, haha. Gym, the commute (a bus just died and cut off a lane and a half today?? It was literally right in front of an intersection too, so like three lanes had to slowly merge and drive pass), new games (THEY COME OUT SO FAST), chores. There's other personal things too, I can't get into. But yeah, just life stuff.
:D

Aaantlion posted...

SpeedDemon20 posted...

Man, this movie is so good.

Eh, there were things I liked and disliked. The Goblin armor would have been fine if they didn't go for such goofy gestures at times, like when he's just talking on the rooftop.

Yeah, those type of things don't really bother me too much.

In the scene where he fights the carjacker, the carjacker began with a gun and then switches to a knife. Spider-man kicks the knife out of his hands, there's a quick cut, and the carjacker just has the gun again suddenly, lol. But overall, not important for what the scene was doing.

I'm mostly focused on characters, what we learn about them, and the importance of scenes. There's a lot of character nuances I really like. Like we are shown a few times of MJ's broken home, her failures, and somehow despite all those things, she always appears happy to other people (she's always shown visibly upset before Peter talks to her). She's upset for a moment and then does a complete 180 when she sees her boyfriend or friends again (and I think that's very similar to how people are in real life).

I also really like J Jonah Jameson. As a character, he's an asshole and should be totally unlikeable, but when Green Goblin comes to ask him where to find Spider-Man's photographer. JJJ knowingly lies saying, "I don't know. We get them in the mail." despite him just telling Peter off, who was just outside his door. Maybe he's just being greedy and trying to protect his moneymaker? Maybe he's actually kinda honorable and protecting the people he cares about. Can't really say for sure, but I like to think the latter.

Also, I think a lot of things that happened or is said in this movie would not be okay, lol. Peter insinuated that Bonesaw was a woman or gay at one point. People would be all over that nowadays, lol. Also, MJ wore a Chinese dress at the parade. That'd probably catch a lot of flak too.
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The villain feels like it was ripped out of an episode of Power Rangers.

But the main problem with the villain isn't even the silliness imo. It's 1) that Green Goblin has no motivation or driving logic for being evil other than he literally took a serum or w/e that made him evil. And 2) that his origin story conveniently coincides with Spider-Man's.

But that's a common occurence with superhero films isn't it? Films like Spider Man and Batman Begins try to portray a non superhero inhabited world and show how a superhero came to exist in them. That's a pretty fanciful concept in of itself and exciting if done right. But there's always that second origin story crammed in (for the villain) so there can be a showdown at the end. As if the whole movie is just a professional wrestling match preceded by 2 hours of buildup.

Not saying it's a bad movie necessarily. I think the movie did for Spider Man what The Christopher Reeve films did for Superman. That was no small feat. Also, I love Toby Maguire as Parker.

I don't really consider the Raimi Spider-Man trilogy or Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy "superhero" movies. I'd consider them more of a drama. Maybe they used to be, but Iron Man definitely redefined what a superhero movie is (the humor tends to be more explicit nowadays; I think it became more explicit because it needed to be dumbed down for the masses, but that's another topic).

In storytelling, it's very important that characters have proper backstories, motives, and goals. When I was going into this movie, I couldn't recall what the plot was about (other than the obvious points of what happens), but Green Goblin does have motives and goals.

When Oscorp was facing the possibility of losing funding, Norman wanted to show the board that there was progress in their performance enhancers and that they were ready for human testing (all 8 trials were positive in showing enhancement, but one had drastic side effects). One doctor was against human trials and recommended "going back to formula" and the board members agreed. Then of course, Norman does what he does. The performance enhancers seem to tap into Norman's inner desires and manifests them for him.

Later on, when the board told Osborn they were expecting his resignation from the company, he attacks them at the parade (though he wiped them pretty fast and could've left a long time ago, but continued to fight Spider-Man).

When he talks to himself later, revealing to himself that he is the Green Goblin, he also reveals to the audience his next plan: try to get Spider-Man to join him. His main argument is that they could accomplish a lot together or they could continue battling back and forth and let innocents die in the crossfire. I have to admit that this is a weird motive. He could have easily killed Spider-Man there and be done with it. I don't know how Spider-Man could further his goals for power. But yeah, there are driving factors for what he chooses to do.

As for Batman Begins (one of my favorites! If not, my most favorite!), Ra's Al Ghul and Bruce are essentially the same broken character, and each took similar but slightly different paths. Ra's tried to show Bruce his path, but of course Bruce was sternly against killing. Their paths crossing was inevitable since they both had different ideas on how to "save" Gotham. Maybe it didn't seem that way to Bruce, because Bruce (and maybe the audience if they don't know what Ra's Al Ghul is all about) probably thought he solved the League's threat to Gotham by destroying the base and letting their "leader," fake Ra's, die. But the League was bigger and more powerful than Bruce expected; they already had a plan in the works for Gotham (as he would later find out). Scarecrow doesn't really have much of a background. I'm okay with that though (his weapon was alluding towards Ra's Al Ghul's return). His motives and goals are pretty simple (money).

I think Spider-Man was always pretty popular. The technology probably wasn't there to make a good movie yet (i.e.: aesthetically pleasing). The story could always be there, but it might've looked awful with earlier technology.

I never watched the Superman movies. I'll get around to them someday, but I don't really like him as a character. It's hard to find the humanity in him that would make him relatable. I did hear about one Superman storyline that did interest me (and will probably never become a movie): when Superman tried to solve world hunger. The story basically concluded that he could pummel bad guys all day, but he was powerless when it came to changing the world. In order to change the world, he needed to inspire hope in people. I need to go read that.
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final_lap posted...

The villain feels like it was ripped out of an episode of Power Rangers.

But the main problem with the villain isn't even the silliness imo. It's 1) that Green Goblin has no motivation or driving logic for being evil other than he literally took a serum or w/e that made him evil. And 2) that his origin story conveniently coincides with Spider-Man's.

But that's a common occurence with superhero films isn't it? Films like Spider Man and Batman Begins try to portray a non superhero inhabited world and show how a superhero came to exist in them. That's a pretty fanciful concept in of itself and exciting if done right. But there's always that second origin story crammed in (for the villain) so there can be a showdown at the end. As if the whole movie is just a professional wrestling match preceded by 2 hours of buildup.

Not saying it's a bad movie necessarily. I think the movie did for Spider Man what The Christopher Reeve films did for Superman. That was no small feat. Also, I love Toby Maguire as Parker.

Goblin took the serum and was forced out of the company that he built, thats his motivation.

Man, that's a really concise way of saying what I said. I should hire you! I tend to get really rambly and wordy.

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Okay, I just got to the Thanksgiving scene where Norman tells Harry that MJ is just with him because of his money. When Harry returns to the room, MJ sarcastically says, "Thanks for sticking up for me, Harry." LADY. WHAT?! Harry literally says, "You're wrong about her, dad." Though I guess he kinda said it softly, relative to his dad's shouting.

I'm not feeling that part of the scene.
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SpeedDemon20 posted...

Okay, I just got to the Thanksgiving scene where Norman tells Harry that MJ is just with him because of his money. When Harry returns to the room, MJ sarcastically says, "Thanks for sticking up for me, Harry." LADY. WHAT?! Harry literally says, "You're wrong about her, dad." Though I guess he kinda said it softly, relative to his dad's shouting.

I'm not feeling that part of the scene.

I mean, I didn't really like the whole scene.

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Jameson is a good guy at heart; he's just cheap as hell and his opinions happen to run completely opposite Spider-Man. And he's somehow little bullheaded when it comes to his opinion of Spidey.
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Yeah, JJJ is great! I love all his scenes.

OHJOY90 posted...

SpeedDemon20 posted...

Okay, I just got to the Thanksgiving scene where Norman tells Harry that MJ is just with him because of his money. When Harry returns to the room, MJ sarcastically says, "Thanks for sticking up for me, Harry." LADY. WHAT?! Harry literally says, "You're wrong about her, dad." Though I guess he kinda said it softly, relative to his dad's shouting.

I'm not feeling that part of the scene.

I mean, I didn't really like the whole scene.

Well, the purpose of the scene is (1) Norman/Green Goblin learning Peter is Spider-Man and (2) setting up the Harry/MJ split. It does the first well enough. The second was kinda weak, imo.

And it's Friday, boys! Let's finish this darn movie tonight!
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I loved Raimi's spiderman films at the time. I actually loved his renditioning of the green goblin. He's like the one villain I want to see from the new Marvel franchise, even though I'm not really interested in the latest Marvel movies.
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keyblader1985 posted...

Jameson is a good guy at heart; he's just cheap as hell and his opinions happen to run completely opposite Spider-Man. And he's somehow little bullheaded when it comes to his opinion of Spidey.

His opinion changes completely when His son was Spider Jameson: The Super Astronaut... Makes sense as one reason for him not to like Spider-Man is that he steals the limelight from his astronaut son, who is a true American hero... There are other reasons, as well...
Though, when he finds out Peters identity, hes usually cool with it...
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SpeedDemon20 posted...

Yeah, JJJ is great! I love all his scenes.

Well, the purpose of the scene is (1) Norman/Green Goblin learning Peter is Spider-Man and (2) setting up the Harry/MJ split. It does the first well enough. The second was kinda weak, imo.

I suppose, I just don't really like the scene. Although I can see that it was necessary to include those bits for narrative purposes though. Also, what exactly was the point of having Harry and MJ together in the first place?


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OHJOY90 posted...

I suppose, I just don't really like the scene. Although I can see that it was necessary to include those bits for narrative purposes though. Also, what exactly was the point of having Harry and MJ together in the first place?

Two things, I think:
1. For the audience to feel bad for Peter (Harry never tells Peter that he was with MJ; she told him and was surprised Harry didn't, despite them being roommates).
2. Harry is how Green Goblin learns about MJ, when he tells his dad about their split. So he could use MJ as a hostage at the final battle.

That's kind of a dick move on Harry's part. He knowingly hooked up with the one girl he knew his best friend liked.
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SpeedDemon20 posted...

Two things, I think:
1. For the audience to feel bad for Peter (Harry never tells Peter that he was with MJ; she told him and was surprised Harry didn't, despite them being roommates).
2. Harry is how Green Goblin learns about MJ, when he tells his dad about their split. So he could use MJ as a hostage at the final battle.

That's kind of a dick move on Harry's part. He knowingly hooked up with the one girl he knew his best friend liked.

Oh yeah, that makes sense now that you mention it, it's been a while since I've seen the film, and even then some stuff tends to go over my head.

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That's why I'm rewatching it! It's been years!
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Yeah, I might rewatch it if I spot it come up on TV or a streaming service, as I'm not sure where the DVD is.

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SpeedDemon20 posted...

I also really like J Jonah Jameson. As a character, he's an [a-word] and should be totally unlikeable,

J Jonah Jameson is the best thing about the Raimi films. That casting was perfect. It's also probably why we never saw him in the Amazing films, because nobody could top JK Simmons.... which Disney realized as well, since it brought him in to voice JJ in the cartoons and later... actually, I'm not sure how to handle that particular spoiler (if it even counts as a spoiler) since no matter what I do it'll be another layup for a malicious marker.

SpeedDemon20 posted...

Maybe he's just being greedy and trying to protect his moneymaker? Maybe he's actually kinda honorable and protecting the people he cares about. Can't really say for sure, but I like to think the latter.

He's always been portrayed as thickheaded, but with a good heart. He has a vendetta against Spider-Man --- partly for overshadowing his astronaut son and, in at least one cartoon, he blames it on a distrust of masked individuals because of a personal trauma (which is inconsistent since he ONLY targets Spider-Man) -- but he plays within a certain set of rules and goes out of his way to protect his staff.

SpeedDemon20 posted...

Also, I think a lot of things that happened or is said in this movie would not be okay, lol. Peter insinuated that [see original post]. People would be all over that nowadays, lol. Also, MJ wore a Chinese dress at the parade. That'd probably catch a lot of flak too.

I'm noting this but right now I'm going to resist remarking on society's changes, other than to point out that Raimi's Spider-Man film only came out in 2002 so shit changed quickly.
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final_lap posted...

The villain feels like it was ripped out of an episode of Power Rangers.

But the main problem with the villain isn't even the silliness imo. It's 1) that Green Goblin has no motivation or driving logic for being evil other than he literally took a serum or w/e that made him evil. And 2) that his origin story conveniently coincides with Spider-Man's.

But that's a common occurence with superhero films isn't it? Films like Spider Man and Batman Begins try to portray a non superhero inhabited world and show how a superhero came to exist in them. That's a pretty fanciful concept in of itself and exciting if done right. But there's always that second origin story crammed in (for the villain) so there can be a showdown at the end. As if the whole movie is just a professional wrestling match preceded by 2 hours of buildup.

Not saying it's a bad movie necessarily. I think the movie did for Spider Man what The Christopher Reeve films did for Superman. That was no small feat. Also, I love Toby Maguire as Parker.

You kinda have to do a double-origin story with the first movie in a superhero franchise, after which the sequels only need to do an origin story for the villain. Granted, not all superhero movies have a villain origin story. Joker's origins in TDK are unknown, beyond the stories he tells (which contradict each other). Some of the origin stories are interconnected. Thor 1 is about as interconnected as an origin story can get, as the hero and villain are side-by-side through much of it and the movie explores their relationship. Spider-Man and Green Goblin are somewhat tied together in Spider-Man and, in turn, in ASM1 you have something similar with Spider-Man and the Lizard. In general, having an interconnected origin story makes a lot more sense than just having a superhero and villain separately come into their powers and identity at the same time, which feels far more contrived and is a *lot* harder to work in from a narrative perspective.

And the serum didn't make the Goblin "evil," it made him crazy.... and the Raimi films' portrayal of insanity drove me crazy, considering it *always* involved a character talking to themselves or straight-up monologuing.

As for Batman Begins, it has two villains, neither of whom has a traditional origin story. Ras and his League of Shadows had always been around (and, more importantly, the League plays a role in Batman's origin) and then the Scarecrow had always been acting in that capacity.

Plus, because buildup to a fight would be boring, superhero movies usually have the hero fight the villain several times before the big confrontation. iirc, Spider-Man 1 has quite a few Goblin confrontations before the final battle.
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I just finished Spider-Man 2. Surprised this topic is still here.

Overall, very good, but the love scenes make me want to vomit.

I feel like a lot of the characters are solid, but some things do make me question them.

Like Mary Jane walking out on her WEDDING day. That's really messed up, not just to her fiance but their guests too. Just wasting a everyone's time. Also, Peter telling Mary Jane that they can't be together because he's Spider-Man and that would endanger her? She's been in the final boss fight each time, so clearly that didn't matter (and being the friend of Spider-Man's photographer, Peter Parker, seems much more dangerous!).

But overall, still pretty good.
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Love this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNxzdnZVIp0" data-time="
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I feel like I only like Mary Jane for Peter's sake. She's kind of a mess. If you go back and count how many times she switched romantic partners in the span of three movies, it's ridiculous.
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Yeah shes especially a drama llama in the second movie. (Shes pretty tame in the first).

She was a very acceptable live interest back in the day because we really hadnt seen anything like Spider-Man before. But today weve seen every type of superhero film imaginable so were a little more picky.

That basically sums up the Spider-Man movies as a whole. They were groundbreaking at the time only because noone had done anything like that before. But now we have multiple movies just like that every year. So you have to be extra special to separate yourself from the pack
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I've always liked the Sam Raimi version of Spiderman because he doesn't get the girl (which is canon), and 2)he's not a member of the 'in crowd' as demonstrated at the beginning of the movie. Technically Peter and Harry wouldn't even be friends if Harry hadn't failed at every private school that Norman sent him to, or so Norman tells Harry at the beginning of the movie . I was more under the impression that Norman saw Peter as the son that he wanted to have: inquisitive, respectful, intelligent, a sharp contrast to Harry who was more of a playboy than anything else.

GastroFan posted...

I've always liked the Sam Raimi version of Spiderman because he doesn't get the girl (which is canon),

Canon when? He marries MJ in the comics and, prior to that, he dated Gwen Stacy, Betty Brant, and others.

GastroFan posted...

2)he's not a member of the 'in crowd'

For all the talk of him not being a member of the in-crowd, the actual comics Spidey -- even in the early days -- wound up being the same places the popular kids were and they interacted with him a lot more than they should have. While he wasn't necessarily good friends with them, he very much moved in those circles.
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GastroFan posted...

I was more under the impression that Norman saw Peter as the son that he wanted to have: inquisitive, respectful, intelligent, a sharp contrast to Harry who was more of a playboy than anything else.

Yep, that is definitely true. Harry says as much several times.

"I think he wants to adopt you." (when Peter and Norman first meet)

"Don't act like you're my friend. You stole MJ from me. You stole my father's love. Then you let him die because you didn't turn in the freak. Isn't that right? Huh, brother?" (at JJJ's son's party)
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Also "I've been like a father to you. Be a son to me now."

Granted it was a ploy, but it wasn't completely out of nowhere.
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Spider-Man 2 is one of the greatest superhero movies ever made in my opinion. Saying that, I'm not massively into all the modern Marvel films, I'm surprised people aren't bored of all the superhero films by now. I get why they keep rolling them out, there's obviously a demand and they make tons of money at the end of the day but still.
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I think the next MCU phase is going to be less successful than they're hoping. A lot of people are getting burnt out.
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keyblader1985 posted...

A lot of people are getting burnt out.

But a lot of people aren't and are excited about the next phase.
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keyblader1985 posted...

I think the next MCU phase is going to be less successful than they're hoping. A lot of people are getting burnt out.

I think theyre purposely taking a step back and not putting a huge amount of money into this phase because of this reason

Most of the stuff theyve revealed are smaller, more personal independent films. Theyre giving the public a rest after such a barrage of films over the past couple years
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FrozenBananas posted...

keyblader1985 posted...

I think the next MCU phase is going to be less successful than they're hoping. A lot of people are getting burnt out.

I think theyre purposely taking a step back and not putting a huge amount of money into this phase because of this.

Most of the stuff theyve revealed are smaller, more personal independent films. Theyre giving the public a rest after such a barrage of films over the past couple years

Or, just like when they showed the upcoming movies for phase 3, they didn't include some of the movies that they revealed. I mean, they even said they already have phase 5 planned.
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You need to watch the Spiderman 2.5 version with the extra Jameson scene. (or probably look it up on youtube.)
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