Current Events > Do save states count as cheating?

(+) Yeah! (+)

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Is that the whole "I met him in another state so it's not cheating" concept?
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Yes. However, I don't have any issues with people cheating in offline games so it doesn't matter lol.
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of course they're cheating

Yomi posted...

Yes. However, I don't have any issues with people cheating in offline games so it doesn't matter lol.

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nah, not really. they're really for re-doing parts, being able to close the game and pick up where you left off, etc.

They could be used to cheat but aren't cheating in and of themselves unless you're a no saving at all during the game purist.
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Only if you're not just using them to save the game.

Imagine 100%ing Super Mario Bros 3 in one sitting
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Ehh... yeah. But honestly using it to mitigate some pretty dated game mechanics like passwords in place of save files is pretty fair
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Yeah but it's acceptable when it's done to make the game less of a dated PoS. For example, savestating at the beginning of each level so you don't have to redo the whole game when you die.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Only if you're not just using them to save the game.

Imagine 100%ing Super Mario Bros 3 in one sitting

I don't need to imagine this I've done it multiple times. it's not that long of a game

as for topic: I'd consider them cheating when used in any place you wouldn't typically be able to save a game (mid level, mid battle, right before a tricky boss fight, etc)
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I only save on text password screens and as a self-destructing type of resume feature if I have to stop playing.
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This came up because I was playing that Disney Afternoon Collection earlier.

I was thinking it kind of depends on how the game was originally intended to be played. Most NES games obviously were designed around replaying large sections of the level. Save scumming levels and bosses whenever you get hit takes all the challenge and reward of the game.

On top of that, they even added rewind buttons to some rereleases, like this and the Mega Man Legacy Collection. It makes the achievements for beating the games feel pointless.

Save states alone are not cheating unless they are used for save scumming.
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i don't think so. savestates aren't giving you an unfair advantage mechanic-wise. it's just saving time. even if you're trying to best some RNG odds.

i'm sure there are corner cases though.
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I mean it depends, but in most cases yeah.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Only if you're not just using them to save the game.

Imagine 100%ing Super Mario Bros 3 in one sitting

game is easy. lost when i got to the stage in dark land.
though pipe land has some bad levels in general where one could lose lives.
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I mainly use save states in older games as a "stop for now and resume later" thing.
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SauI_Goodman posted...

Is that the whole "I met him in another state so it's not cheating" concept?

Why did this make me laugh
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Perseverance is a big part of a game's challenge, so even if you only saved at the beginning of each level I'd say you didn't really beat the game. Even just reloading levels to learn them before going for a no-save states run is pretty iffy. The stress of the one-off chance to learn something is a part of it, but people circumvent that.

That said, what does it matter if you really beat it or not? Games are there for our enjoyment. Whatever lets us get the most enjoyment out of them is probably a good thing.
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SpiralDrift posted...

Perseverance is a big part of a game's challenge,

It depends on the game. Most games you can hit pause and leave for hours or days. That's not the game challenging you with perseverance.
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SMAP- posted...

SauI_Goodman posted...

Is that the whole "I met him in another state so it's not cheating" concept?

Why did this make me laugh

lol how did I miss this poast
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SpiralDrift posted...

That said, what does it matter if you really beat it or not?

In general, it doesn't.

I asked because the game I was playing gave achievements for beating the game, regardless of save state use. In these cases, I think either using save states should disable the achievements or there should be separate achievements for beating the game without save states/rewind.

Eevee-Trainer posted...

Yomi posted...

Yes. However, I don't have any issues with people cheating in offline games so it doesn't matter lol.

Yes and no.

No if you use them only to decrease tedium.
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Save scumming isn't the most professional way to play a game but who am I trying to impress? I mostly save scum boring things that I don't want to have to do again if I die
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It depends. Save state usage ranges from saving on a password screen so you can reload from that without writing down the password to saving every time you make progress and loading every time you take damage, with millions of other cases in between. The line is somewhere, but it's hard to say where.
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bloodydeath0 posted...

i don't think so. savestates aren't giving you an unfair advantage mechanic-wise. it's just saving time. even if you're trying to best some RNG odds.

i'm sure there are corner cases though.

Using savestates to beat RNG odds can still lead to getting an unfair advantage.

>playing Fire Emblem
>character one battle away from a level up
>save state
>do the battle, get bad stat gains from the level up due to RNG
>load previous save state
>waste some random numbers, do battle, get better stat gains from the level up

IMO that would fall under save scumming, and therefore cheating. But of course...

Eevee-Trainer posted...

Yomi posted...

However, I don't have any issues with people cheating in offline games so it doesn't matter lol.

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I think it's cool to be able to savestate to practice hard sections of a game.
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I think its fine if like, I'm playing an old snes or psx rpg and may be a ways away from a save point and just need to stop playing
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