Current Events > So the reason why health care is so expensive is because of Obama care right?

(+) Yeah! (+)

nt
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Not solely but it doesnt help. Its like in the state of michigan the insurance prices are so damn high because everyone is forced to have it.
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if you like your insurance you can keep it
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no its because hospitals charge ridiculous overinflated prices
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no
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notice how the Fox News sheep realized the individual mandate was a good thing as soon as Trump took office.
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As explained by Reggie Watts:

It's a stack of fuck-shit on top of itself

'Lodge care' getting killed off a hundred years ago.
The insistence that doctors have twelve years of secondary education.
A dogpile of huge malpractice settlements in the 80s and 90s, leading to a huge increase in malpractice insurance rates.
Medicare/Medicaid paying abysmal reimbursement rates, leading to private insurance doing the same.
Medical offices needing a small army of clerks to wade through the "billing and coding" clusterfuck medicare/aid created.
A nation-wide mandate that ERs cannot refuse anyone, for any reason.
Oh, and then Obamacare.

SH_expert44 posted...

Not solely but it doesnt help. Its like in the state of michigan the insurance prices are so damn high because everyone is forced to have it.

Wouldn't more people having insurance actually lower prices?
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its an exacerbating factor, far from the key factor.

biggest cause from what i can see is collusion between hospitals, insurers and drug/medical device manufacturers.
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Ryangrad posted...

SH_expert44 posted...

Not solely but it doesnt help. Its like in the state of michigan the insurance prices are so damn high because everyone is forced to have it.

Wouldn't more people having insurance actually lower prices?

Surprisingly no. The more people you have with the insurance the more people that actually use it. So insurance companies in turn jack up the prices so that they can sustain themselves.
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not an American here, but i can see why medical treatment can be expensive under forced health care program in a country full of corruption.

take my country for example :
1. Government implement health care.
2. People abusing it, they go to hospital for the smallest problem.
3. Hospitals and doctors used up the medicines, and they sent the bill to the government.
4. Government can't pay up because of over budget.
5. Pharma companies rises the price of the drugs to cover losses.
some devil's circle between 4 and 5 makes the price keep rising.

and you can't stop the 2nd step because people feel entitled because they paid for it. even the "free" healthcare in advanced countries are paid by tax.

and it gets worse if it's not a free healthcare, because the poor that can't even afford it now also have to face the rising prices of meds.

in short, healthcare works in a healthy government, but not in a corrupted one.
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Ryangrad posted...

SH_expert44 posted...

Not solely but it doesnt help. Its like in the state of michigan the insurance prices are so damn high because everyone is forced to have it.

Wouldn't more people having insurance actually lower prices?

not if you are required to carry more insurance than you actually need. My mom, a 65 year old post-menopausal woman, needs coverage in case she has another baby.
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KILBOTz posted...

Ryangrad posted...

SH_expert44 posted...

Not solely but it doesnt help. Its like in the state of michigan the insurance prices are so damn high because everyone is forced to have it.

Wouldn't more people having insurance actually lower prices?

not if you are required to carry more insurance than you actually need. My mom, a 65 year old post-menopausal woman, needs coverage in case she has another baby.

Your grandpa does too.

The main reason is because the payer is not the same as the buyer.
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Because the Conservative American views healthcare as a luxury like a BMW

AlephZero posted...

if you like your insurance you can keep it

People love to bring this up as if Trump didn't promise cheaper, better insurance for more people once he was in office in his first interview or whatever
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cmiller4642 posted...

Because the Conservative American views healthcare as a luxury like a BMW

Dealers are only allowed to sell BMWs.

Too bad the general public and most of Congress has exactly zero knowledge of how healthcare actually works. So we have a bunch of Dunning-Krugers on both sides screeching talking points.

Healthcare is too expensive. The solution isn't to spend more money on it (Democrats) or completely unviable HSAs (Republicans).

The solution is to vertically integrate the system, eliminating insurance companies and having a single, universal plan with tiered copays based on income. Enact proper utilization control and reasonable restraint with expensive tests and procedures.
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Yup Obama jumped in bed with his insurance buddies and literally said, "I'm going to throw you guys a big meaty bone."

He required everyone to get Obamacare or face a penalty which allowed his buddies to charge whatever they wanted as premiums since you HAVE to get it.

What a nice guy huh?

It's because of insurance mostly, and Obama let insurance companies help write the bill.
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DarkRoast posted...

Too bad the general public and most of Congress has exactly zero knowledge of how healthcare actually works. So we have a bunch of Dunning-Krugers on both sides screeching talking points.

Healthcare is too expensive. The solution isn't to spend more money on it (Democrats) or completely unviable HSAs (Republicans).

The solution is to vertically integrate the system, eliminating insurance companies and having a single, universal plan with tiered copays based on income. Enact proper utilization control and reasonable restraint with expensive tests and procedures.

What is your background that makes you uniquely not inflicted by Dunning-Kruger effect regarding healthcare discussions?
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I worked for 5 years at a huge health insurance company...

Doctors say it's insurance that makes healthcare costs high, insurance says it's doctor's. The answer is it's both.

Doctor's will ask how they can possibly survive at a job where insurance will pay them 80 bucks for a 5 minute visit.
Insurance companies will say doctor's will order tests that aren't needed and will follow their medical policies to the letter regarding things like approvals for MRI's and shit. This costs health care extra money.

Health Care is a business in this country and it really shouldn't be.
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PLANNING THE CONTROL OVER MEDICINE
The next topic is Medicine. There would be profound changes in the practice of medicine. Overall, medicine would be much more tightly controlled. The observation was made, "Congress is not going to go along with national health insurance. That (in 1969)," he said, "is now, abundantly evident. But it's not necessary. We have other ways to control health care." These would come about more gradually, but all health care delivery would come under tight control. Medical care would be closely connected to work. If you don't work or can't work, you won't have access to medical care. The days of hospitals giving away free care would gradually wind down, to where it was virtually nonexistent. Costs would be forced up so that people won't be able to afford to go without insurance. People pay.. you pay for it, you're entitled to it. It was only subsequently that I began to realize the extent to which you would not be paying for it. Your medical care would be paid for by others. And therefore you would gratefully accept, on bended knee, what was offered to you as a privilege. Your role being responsible for your own care would be diminished. As an aside here, this is not something that was developed at that time .. I didn't understand it at the time as an aside, the way this works, everybody's made dependent on insurance. And if you don't have insurance then you pay directly; the cost of your care is enormous. The insurance company, however, paying for your care, does not pay that same amount. If you are charged, say, $600 for the use of an operating room, the insurance company does not pay $600 on your part. They pay $300 or $400. And that differential in billing has the desired effect: It enables the insurance company to pay for that which you could never pay for. They get a discount that's unavailable to you. When you see your bill you're grateful that the insurance company could do that. And in this way you are dependent, and virtually required to have insurance. The whole billing is fraudulent. Anyhow, continuing on now, .. access to hospitals would be tightly controlled. Identification would be needed to get into the building. The security in and around hospitals would be established and gradually increased so that nobody without identification could get in or move around inside the building. Theft of hospital equipment, things like typewriters and microscopes and so forth would be "allowed" and exaggerated; reports of it would be exaggerated so that this would be the excuse needed to establish the need for strict security, until people got used to it. And anybody moving about the hospital would be required to wear an identification badge with photograph and.. telling why he was there .. employee or lab technician or visitor or whatever. This is to be brought in gradually, getting everybody used to the idea of identifying themselves - until it was just accepted. This need for ID to move about would start in small ways: hospitals, some businesses, but gradually expand to include everybody in all places! It was observed that hospitals can be used to confine people .. for the treatment of criminals. This did not mean, necessarily, medical treatment. At that .. at that time I did not know the word "Psycho-Prison" - is in the Soviet Union, but, without trying to recall all the details, basically, he was describing the use of hospitals both for treating the sick, and for confinement of criminals for reasons other than the medical well-being of the criminal. The definition of criminal was not given.
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Ryangrad posted...

SH_expert44 posted...

Not solely but it doesnt help. Its like in the state of michigan the insurance prices are so damn high because everyone is forced to have it.

Wouldn't more people having insurance actually lower prices?

Insurance premiums will go up when you attempt to turn insurance into socialized medicine. Similarly, if it were required that auto insurance companies started covering everyone (including reckless and drunk drivers) at competitive rates, then auto insurance premiums would skyrocket as well.
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