Board 8 > Villains II Mock Bracket

(+) Yeah! (+)

Inspired by some discussion on Discord earlier today, I decided to create a mock bracket for Villains II, this time with 64 characters. Full disclosure, I opted to use a broad definition of villains, so 'Best Antagonist' would probably be a more accurate title for this bracket. I welcome any predictions, griping about snubs or criteria, or any other sort of discussion!

Division 1:

(1) Sephiroth vs. (16) Illidan Stormrage
(8) CATS vs. (9) Baldur (God of War)
(5) Dr. Wily vs. (12) Scorpion
(4) Dr. Robotnik vs. (13) Nightmare
(3) Donkey Kong vs. (14) Lavos
(6) Dark Samus vs. (11) Handsome Jack
(7) Pokmon Trainer Blue vs. (10) Kuja
(2) Dark Link vs. (15) Pyramid Head

Division 2:

(1) GLaDOS vs. (16) Space Invader
(8) Crazy Hand vs. (9) Psycho Mantis
(5) Piranha Plant vs. (12) Gilgamesh
(4) Incineroar vs. (13) Diablo
(3) Ridley vs. (14) Delita Hyral
(6) Proto Man vs. (11) Xehanort
(7) Jecht vs. (10) M. Bison
(2) Magus vs. (15) Gruntilda

Division 3:

(1) Bowser vs. (16) Jeanne
(8) Revolver Ocelot vs. (9) Dracula
(5) King Dedede vs. (12) Liquid Snake
(4) King K. Rool vs. (13) Giovanni
(3) Miles Edgeworth vs. (14) Slime
(6) Bowser Jr. vs. (11) Catherine
(7) Meta Knight vs. (10) The Boss
(2) Waluigi vs. (15) Akuma

Division 4:

(1) Ganondorf vs. (16) Midgar Zolom
(8) Kratos Aurion vs. (9) Dr. Neo Cortex
(5) Wario vs. (12) Albert Wesker
(4) Shadow the Hedgehog vs. (13) Vergil
(3) Mewtwo vs. (14) Sigma
(6) Master Hand vs. (11) Metal Sonic
(7) Giygas vs. (10) Wolf ODonnell
(2) Kefka vs. (15) Tom Nook

Incineroar?

There are a few others I feel don't really belong, but I don't understand the logic of that one at all.
---

It's clearly based on a wrestling heel, which to me is sufficient for a broadly-defined bracket such as this.

Xehanort is a really questionable Kingdom Hearts choice, especially with Riku not in the bracket.
---

And Waluigi is an antagonist of... the internet?
---

Missing S-Block
---

Pretty good bracket! Here's some further considerations:

Jenova(Final Fantasy 7)
Seymour(Final Fantasy 10)
Kuja(Final Fantasy 9)
Arthas(World of Warcraft)
Boo(Mario Party Games)
Andross(Star Fox 64)
Asgore(Undertale)
Muffet(Undertale)
Monika(Doki Doki Literature Club)
Asch(Tales of the Abyss)
---

_SecretSquirrel posted...

Xehanort is a really questionable Kingdom Hearts choice, especially with Riku not in the bracket.

Yeah, you're right, I probably should have included Riku as the obligatory Kingdom Hearts character. After his bomb, though, I would rather at least see someone new.

-hotdogturtle-- posted...

And Waluigi is an antagonist of... the internet?

Waluigi is consistently cast as Luigi's rival in spin-offs, and like Blue, is never (to my knowledge) depicted as being heroic.

DK is not known for being a villain. By that logic Mario could be there as well as he was the villian in Donkey Kong

OFool posted...

DK is not known for being a villain. By that logic Mario could be there as well as he was the villian in Donkey Kong

DK was the toughest choice of the bracket for me. On the one hand, the old, villainous DK of the arcade games and their Game Boy successor is clearly now called Cranky Kong in the canon. On the other hand, DK has the whole, relatively contemporary Mario vs. Donkey Kong series in which he's still the main villain, which I ultimately decided was enough to qualify.

SuperNiceDog posted...

Pretty good bracket! Here's some further considerations:

Jenova(Final Fantasy 7)
Seymour(Final Fantasy 10)
Kuja(Final Fantasy 9)
Arthas(World of Warcraft)
Boo(Mario Party Games)
Andross(Star Fox 64)
Asgore(Undertale)
Muffet(Undertale)
Monika(Doki Doki Literature Club)
Asch(Tales of the Abyss)

Thank you for the kind words! Ultimately, I excluded a lot of these characters due to lack of room, and Monika would also be spoilers for the people who haven't played DDLC yet (including me, but hey, I already knew regardless!). That being said, I decided on Illidan over Arthas because Arthas has already been in multiple contests as an individual entrant. Kuja is also tucked into the bracket, as the 10 seed in a first-round match against Blue.

SuperNiceDog posted...

Asgore(Undertale)
Muffet(Undertale)

If we had to get an Undertale representative to stink up the bracket, Flowey is probably the best choice.
---

Uneducated opinions brought to you by SMASHFEAR:

Sephiroth > Donkey Kong
Ridley > GLaDOS
Bowser > Edgeworth
Mewtwo > Ganondorf

Sephiroth > Ridley
Bowser > Mewtwo

Bowser > Sephiroth

Unless Sephie gets revealed as Ultimate DLC, then ooh boy.
---

No Andrew Ryan?
---

Stuff like even putting Kratos is probably too close to spoilers, even if it's old.
---

This is a good bracket, great job!
---

@SBAllen

this wouldn't be an awful idea for a mini-contest if you didn't restrict noms too much, keep it in mind!
---

KokoroAkechi posted...

No Andrew Ryan?

I admit I didn't think of him beforehand, but there's unfortunately not enough room for a probable foddery character from a dead series.

pjbasis posted...

Stuff like even putting Kratos is probably too close to spoilers, even if it's old.

Fair enough, I can't say I know very much about the specific situation of Kratos and Tales of Symphonia. Unfortunately, it's too late to edit this bracket.

ZenOfThunder posted...

This is a good bracket, great job!

Thank you! It pleases me greatly to see that you approve of my efforts!

-hotdogturtle-- posted...

And Waluigi is an antagonist of... the internet?

"Waluigi's most significant role to date was as the main antagonist of Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix"
- Wikipedia

Waluigi kicks off the plot of DDR:MM by stealing the music keys, but he's really only the first boss. The actual final boss is Bowser.
---

hylianknight3 posted...

Waluigi kicks off the plot of DDR:MM by stealing the music keys, but he's really only the first boss. The actual final boss is Bowser.

The main antagonist doesn't have to be the final boss, like Count Bleck in Super Paper Mario or.... all of Team Dark in Sonic Adventure 2. The FinalHazard may be the final boss but it's hardly the main antagonist of the game

Needs Nemesis from resident evil 3
---

There are a lot on there that I wouldn't say truly qualify as villains. I'd also be rallying hard for Alex (Golden Sun) during noms so he could sneak in.
---

Here're my picks

Division 1
Round 1:
Sephiroth > Fodder 1
Baldur > CATS

Scorpion > Wily
Robotnik > Nightmare

DK > Lavos
Dark Samus > Handsome Jack

Blue > Kuja
Dark Link > Pyramid Head

Round 2:
Sephiroth > Baldur
Scorpion > Robotnik

Dark Samus > DK
Blue > Dark Link

Round 3:
Sephiroth > Scorpion
Blue > Dark Samus

Round 4:
Sephiroth > Blue

Division 2
Round 1
GLaDOS > Space Invader
Psycho Mantis > Crazy Hand (assuming this contest happens when the site isn't filled with Smash hype)

GIRUGAMESH > Piranha Plant
Incineroar > Diablo

Ridley > Who?
Proto Man > Zeenort

Jecht > M.Bison
Magus > Gruntilda

Round 2

GLaDOS > Psycho Mantis
Incineroar > Gilgy

Ridley > Proto Man
Jecht > Magus

Round 3
Incineroar > GLaDOS
Ridley > Jecht

Round 4
Incineroar > Ridley

Division 3
Round 1

Bowser > not Bowser
Dracula > Ocelot

Liquid > Dedede
Giovanni > K Rool

Edgeworth > Slime
Bowser Jr > Catherine

The Boss > Meta Knight
Waluigi > Akuma

Round 2

Bowser > Dracula
Giovanni > Liquid

Bowser Jr > Edgey-Poo
Waluigi > The Boss

Round 3

Bowser > Giovanni
Bowser Jr > Waluigi

Round 4

Bowser > Bowser Jr

Division 4
Round 1

Ganondorf > Zolom
Kratos Aurion > Cortex

Wario > Wesker
Shadow > Vergil

Mewtwo > Sigma
Metal Sonic > Master Hand

Wolf > Giygas
Kefka > Tom Nook

Round 2

Ganon > Kratos
Wario > Shadow

Mewtwo > Metal
Kefka > Wolf

Round 3

Ganon > Wario
Mewtwo > Kefka

Round 4
Ganon > Mewtwo

Final four

Sephiroth > Incineroar
Bowser > Ganondorf

Bowser > Sephiroth

hombad46 posted...

hylianknight3 posted...

Waluigi kicks off the plot of DDR:MM by stealing the music keys, but he's really only the first boss. The actual final boss is Bowser.

The main antagonist doesn't have to be the final boss, like Count Bleck in Super Paper Mario or.... all of Team Dark in Sonic Adventure 2. The FinalHazard may be the final boss but it's hardly the main antagonist of the game

Is there another main antagonist who is defeated in the first quarter of the game and never reappears in the final three quarters?
---

hylianknight3 posted...

hombad46 posted...

hylianknight3 posted...

Waluigi kicks off the plot of DDR:MM by stealing the music keys, but he's really only the first boss. The actual final boss is Bowser.

The main antagonist doesn't have to be the final boss, like Count Bleck in Super Paper Mario or.... all of Team Dark in Sonic Adventure 2. The FinalHazard may be the final boss but it's hardly the main antagonist of the game

Is there another main antagonist who is defeated in the first quarter of the game and never reappears in the final three quarters?

Guess not. Oh well, point still stands that he's an antagonist and thus qualifies.

Oh, I totally agree. I just have to laugh sometimes at Waluigi fans (including at Wikipedia?) inflating his status, since I actually own the game. (I like him in it too; he just gets shown up by his brother and that other guy.)
---

Anyway now that I'm on a computer here are the ones I really question (there are others that are more of a rival than a straight-up villain but I think Allen has a loose enough definition at this point to let them slide)

(4) Incineroar - Yeah I don't really get it.
(3) Miles Edgeworth - I definitely wouldn't classify him as a villain. Even with rivals being eligible, his arc really doesn't qualify him to be in a contest like this. Put in Manfred Von Karma instead.
(8) Kratos Aurion - I guess if you count Snape as a villain then Kratos qualifies but he's pretty clearly playing for the good guys. Just have Mithos in like last time.
(3) Mewtwo - Has Mewtwo ever actually been depicted as an antagonist in the games moreso than any other Pokemon?
(15) Tom Nook - Is his status as a villain actually canon? I always thought it was just a meme.
---

Some characters from the last decade that deserve to be there:

Caius Ballad (Final Fantasy 13-2)
David (Last of Us)
Gwyn (Dark Souls)
Irene Engel (Wolfenstein)
Jack Baker (Resident Evil 7)
Keeper (Evil Within)
Lady Maria (Bloodborne)
Pagan Min (Far Cry 4)
---

scaryice posted...

Some characters from the last decade that deserve to be there:

Caius Ballad (Final Fantasy 13-2)
David (Last of Us)
Gwyn (Dark Souls)
Irene Engel (Wolfenstein)
Jack Baker (Resident Evil 7)
Keeper (Evil Within)
Lady Maria (Bloodborne)
Pagan Min (Far Cry 4)

How about Jin/Malos from Xenoblade 2? Or Ghirahim from Skyward Sword? Too bad comic book characters aren't allowed or I'd say Doc Ock from the latest Spider-Man game. Also after all this Smash Ultimate stuff, if a villain contest happened any time soon, Galeem would almost certainly make the cut.

Wreath posted...

Needs Nemesis from resident evil 3

Nemesis was my very last cut :(

Underleveled posted...

Anyway now that I'm on a computer here are the ones I really question (there are others that are more of a rival than a straight-up villain but I think Allen has a loose enough definition at this point to let them slide)

(4) Incineroar - Yeah I don't really get it.
(3) Miles Edgeworth - I definitely wouldn't classify him as a villain. Even with rivals being eligible, his arc really doesn't qualify him to be in a contest like this. Put in Manfred Von Karma instead.
(8) Kratos Aurion - I guess if you count Snape as a villain then Kratos qualifies but he's pretty clearly playing for the good guys. Just have Mithos in like last time.
(3) Mewtwo - Has Mewtwo ever actually been depicted as an antagonist in the games moreso than any other Pokemon?
(15) Tom Nook - Is his status as a villain actually canon? I always thought it was just a meme.

I can't think of anything more to say about Incineroar than above.

I don't really know about Edgeworth, since I haven't played any Ace Attorney game (I know), but as long as he's actively antagonistic towards Phoenix throughout much of the series, that's enough to qualify for a bracket better termed Best Antagonist.

Kratos I already addressed above.

In the games, Mewtwo's not uniquely antagonistic beyond the 'generic boss' sense of other legendary Pokemon; I just figured it would be considered a major snub for such a broadly-defined bracket if I didn't include it.

And Tom Nook's definitely not an outright villain, but my understanding is that he essentially traps the Animal Crossing main character in a growing debt prison with every purchase from him, which is clearly antagonistic.

hombad46 posted...

scaryice posted...

Some characters from the last decade that deserve to be there:

Caius Ballad (Final Fantasy 13-2)
David (Last of Us)
Gwyn (Dark Souls)
Irene Engel (Wolfenstein)
Jack Baker (Resident Evil 7)
Keeper (Evil Within)
Lady Maria (Bloodborne)
Pagan Min (Far Cry 4)

How about Jin/Malos from Xenoblade 2? Or Ghirahim from Skyward Sword? Too bad comic book characters aren't allowed or I'd say Doc Ock from the latest Spider-Man game. Also after all this Smash Ultimate stuff, if a villain contest happened any time soon, Galeem would almost certainly make the cut.

I admit, I do not recognize most of these names - given that I recognized a vast majority of the CBX characters upon seeing them in the bracket, for example, that doesn't make me optimistic about their potential. The only ones I could see being allowed and having some strength are Ghirahim and Lady Maria, and that's assuming the former isn't held back by his game's reception.

I'm pleased to see all this discussion so far - keep it up, everyone!

Boo(Mario Party) has to be in there!
---

SuperNiceDog posted...

Boo(Mario Party) has to be in there!

There's just not enough room for him (it?), I'm afraid.

Bump?

ZenOfThunder posted...

@SBAllen

this wouldn't be an awful idea for a mini-contest if you didn't restrict noms too much, keep it in mind!

Would be a good option for next year imo, since we have GotD in 2020.

Underleveled posted...

(3) Mewtwo - Has Mewtwo ever actually been depicted as an antagonist in the games moreso than any other Pokemon?

He is in the movie.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Underleveled posted...

(3) Mewtwo - Has Mewtwo ever actually been depicted as an antagonist in the games moreso than any other Pokemon?

He is in the movie.

He's the final boss of Guardian Signs, but he's under the control of Purple Eyes so he's not exactly the villain

Bump.

gunp
---

Final bump.

Division 1 is stacked tbh, I'd take like half of it over 1 seed GlaDOS I think
---