Current Events > Jair Bolsonaro, Fascist, Elected President of Brazil

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VTBM
10/29/18 9:27:23 AM
#101:


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#102
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Solar_Crimson
10/29/18 9:29:40 AM
#103:


VTBM posted...
I love Tropical Trump! Ride the red wave!

That red wave must be all the innocent blood he's about to spill.
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#104
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HypnoCoosh
10/29/18 9:37:35 AM
#105:


Fantastic news.

I knew he was going to win.

Brazil seen how President Trump has brought America back from the dead and people are woke AF.
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Solar_Crimson
10/29/18 10:03:06 AM
#106:


HypnoCoosh posted...
Fantastic news.

I knew he was going to win.

Brazil seen how President Trump has brought America back from the dead and people are woke AF.

So, you're just ignoring all the shitty stuff he believes and his plans for the country.

But you're a Trump shill, so I can't really expect any better.
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VectorChaos
10/29/18 10:09:39 AM
#107:


South America be like

ShdlV8S
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MakoReizei
10/29/18 10:12:14 AM
#108:


ImAMarvel posted...
scar the 1 posted...
Just look who's supporting him. Where the money comes from. The gun lobby and the meat lobby are big backers, since he's campaining on less gun control and erasing the Amazon in favor of more meat production. Who's he against? A workers party that has historically brought millions of Brazilians out of poverty through social welfare programs. This isn't unique to Brazil. You'll see capital everywhere siding with the extreme right, because that's where they will find less regulation and more freedom to make money off of whatever they want. Trump is a good example, but this is all over the west. It's not a coincidence that they're all demonizing anything left-wing as communist or socialist. Capitalists love that stuff, and don't care the slightest if the person saying it is fascist.


Interesting and I'm not surprised in the slightest.

those evil capitalists
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Darkman124
10/29/18 10:14:17 AM
#109:


scar the 1 posted...
So yeah, he's playing on the fears, unrest and conservatism of Brazilians, but with the backing of greedy capitalists who would favor him over Haddad.


no argument from me on that summary. that's the trend globally.

mostly i am surprised it's working in the US. our crime rates are falling. i think, honestly, it's not even working that well here--most people lean left--but our election system is set up with significant structural flaws that result in the majority of voters not necessarily electing the candidates they voted for.

gerrymandering requires around a +6 dem national advantage to flip the apparatus designed most directly to represent by population.

EC being capped means small states are drastically overrepresented in electing the president, and they all lean one way. winner take all means half the population of every swing state has no voice, and 30-45% of every other state, the same.
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#110
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Darkman124
10/29/18 10:17:54 AM
#111:


eh, i don't think they do THAT good a job. mostly, i think they don't have to do all that well, because (as I edited in), our system is significantly easier to exploit than more recently developed democracies, who learned from the mistakes of our founding fathers.

we might've learned, too, but we made the amendment system too difficult to enact.
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scar the 1
10/29/18 10:20:46 AM
#112:


Darkman124 posted...
scar the 1 posted...
So yeah, he's playing on the fears, unrest and conservatism of Brazilians, but with the backing of greedy capitalists who would favor him over Haddad.


no argument from me on that summary. that's the trend globally.

mostly i am surprised it's working in the US. our crime rates are falling. i think, honestly, it's not even working that well here--most people lean left--but our election system is set up with significant structural flaws that result in the majority of voters not necessarily electing the candidates they voted for.

gerrymandering requires around a +6 dem national advantage to flip the apparatus designed most directly to represent by population.

EC being capped means small states are drastically overrepresented in electing the president, and they all lean one way. winner take all means half the population of every swing state has no voice, and 30-45% of every other state, the same.

IIRC, the disctricts with the highest crime rates saw pretty low support for Bozo. This echoes what we see all over the place - it's driven by fear, not by facts. Similarly you can see a lot of anti-immigrant sentiments in places with very little exposure to immigrants. And so on. And no one really cares about the truth anyway
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Hawaiian_punch
10/29/18 10:21:54 AM
#113:


Darkman124 posted...
eh, i don't think they do THAT good a job. mostly, i think they don't have to do all that well, because (as I edited in), our system is significantly easier to exploit than more recently developed democracies, who learned from the mistakes of our founding fathers.

we might've learned, too, but we made the amendment system too difficult to enact.


This is not necessarily a bad thing.

Can you imagine the kind of constitution that 45, Steve king, Stephen Miller, Tom cotton and Jeff sessions would put in place!? It would make him crow look like an interracial gang bang
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Darkman124
10/29/18 10:22:09 AM
#114:


scar the 1 posted...
IIRC, the disctricts with the highest crime rates saw pretty low support for Bozo. This echoes what we see all over the place - it's driven by fear, not by facts. Similarly you can see a lot of anti-immigrant sentiments in places with very little exposure to immigrants. And so on. And no one really cares about the truth anyway


yeah. i think the conditions are semi-necessary for the narrative to sell, but it is definitely true that it sells better where people are not familiar with the actual situation and therefore will buy whatever they're told.

separate note: their economy has been collapsing at the same time. unemployment over 11%. growth pretty much stopped.

5 years ago, BRIC was the hot item. Interesting to see that only india remains in a growth phase.
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RebelElite791
10/29/18 10:24:17 AM
#115:


Leave it to averagejoel to use any excuse to shitpost about capitalism
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Hawaiian_punch
10/29/18 10:26:32 AM
#116:


Darkman124 posted...
scar the 1 posted...
IIRC, the disctricts with the highest crime rates saw pretty low support for Bozo. This echoes what we see all over the place - it's driven by fear, not by facts. Similarly you can see a lot of anti-immigrant sentiments in places with very little exposure to immigrants. And so on. And no one really cares about the truth anyway


yeah. i think the conditions are semi-necessary for the narrative to sell, but it is definitely true that it sells better where people are not familiar with the actual situation and therefore will buy whatever they're told.

separate note: their economy has been collapsing at the same time. unemployment over 11%. growth pretty much stopped.

5 years ago, BRIC was the hot item. Interesting to see that only india remains in a growth phase.


India is done.

The h1b changes will hit them hard. Then programming will get further comoditized and automated and it will be the final nail
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Darkman124
10/29/18 10:27:37 AM
#117:


RebelElite791 posted...
Leave it to averagejoel to use any excuse to shitpost about capitalism


he is half right that fascism is a common outcome of economic depressions that are produced in the boom/bust cycles typical of a free market, particularly when the government is not capable of applying appropriate keynesian intervention during the lows and some measure of restraint/tightening during the highs.

Hawaiian_punch posted...
India is done.

The h1b changes will hit them hard. Then programming will get further comoditized and automated and it will be the final nail


i see you do not trade global markets

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/31/news/economy/india-economic-growth/index.html

sensex is generally considered to be in a correction right now
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scar the 1
10/29/18 10:27:38 AM
#118:


RebelElite791 posted...
Leave it to averagejoel to use any excuse to shitpost about capitalism

shut the fuck up
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Coastal_elite
10/29/18 10:34:57 AM
#119:


Darkman124 posted...
i see you do not trade global markets

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/31/news/economy/india-economic-growth/index.html

sensex is generally considered to be in a correction right now


No, I mean, they're doing ok now, but in the middle to long term they're fucked
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Darkman124
10/29/18 10:35:29 AM
#120:


right, and my statement is that the rest of BRIC is going into recessions right now, only india remains in a growth phase

and it's no surprise that of them, only india is not controlled by autocrats who seized power during recessions
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RebelElite791
10/29/18 10:37:29 AM
#121:


scar the 1 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Leave it to averagejoel to use any excuse to shitpost about capitalism

shut the fuck up

Im sorry that I care about the effect this will have on the Brazilian people and planet rather than just seeing an opportunity to push my edgy teenage worldview
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Antifar
10/29/18 10:38:49 AM
#122:


Bolsonaro couldn't have that effect without the backing of capital. Big business backs Bolsonaro.
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TheCyborgNinja
10/29/18 10:40:21 AM
#123:


biberals posted...
He is a member of the Social Liberal Party.

I don't see fascist there

Well, fascists haven't been able to call thenselves that since Mussolini lost. Now they call themselves the opposite of what they are.
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scar the 1
10/29/18 10:51:00 AM
#124:


RebelElite791 posted...
scar the 1 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Leave it to averagejoel to use any excuse to shitpost about capitalism

shut the fuck up

Im sorry that I care about the effect this will have on the Brazilian people and planet rather than just seeing an opportunity to push my edgy teenage worldview

What edgy teenage worldview is that? That the Brazilian meat lobby who control more or less half of their congress supports Bozo because he will privatize the Amazon rain forest, allowing them to expand their business and make more money? Or the edgy teenage worldview that gun manufacturers are drooling at the idea of expanding their market in the world's fifth largest population? I don't know what hate boner you have for averagejoel but don't pretend like capitalist interests haven't been funneling tons of money into electing Bozo, including committing campaign finance violations and spreading tons and tons of fake news.
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FightingGames
10/29/18 10:52:51 AM
#125:


based. #MakeBrazilGreatAgain
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scar the 1
10/29/18 10:55:06 AM
#126:


Campaign ads for Haddad in which they brought up Bozo's actual support for torture were blocked by the Brazilian Superior Electoral Court. Campaign ads for Bozo in which literal fake news about Haddad being a pedophile were allowed.
Allegations of massive campaign finance violations against Bozo weren't investigated.
Gee, I wonder if someone may have persuaded the TSE to overlook some of Bozo's things? Who could have done that, do you think it might have been someone with a lot of money?
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KiwiTerraRizing
10/29/18 10:56:32 AM
#127:


biberals posted...
He is a member of the Social Liberal Party.

I don't see fascist there


He cant be fascist because he says he isnt

Ok then
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Antifar
10/29/18 10:58:29 AM
#128:


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Darkman124
10/29/18 10:58:41 AM
#129:


scar the 1 posted...
Campaign ads for Haddad in which they brought up Bozo's actual support for torture were blocked by the Brazilian Superior Electoral Court. Campaign ads for Bozo in which literal fake news about Haddad being a pedophile were allowed.
Allegations of massive campaign finance violations against Bozo weren't investigated.
Gee, I wonder if someone may have persuaded the TSE to overlook some of Bozo's things? Who could have done that, do you think it might have been someone with a lot of money?


hell

lula was allowed to campaign from prison (and winning) until what, september 1 this year?

imagine if you suddenly had to switch from a popular candidate to an unknown one 2 mo before an election
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scar the 1
10/29/18 11:02:43 AM
#130:


Darkman124 posted...
scar the 1 posted...
Campaign ads for Haddad in which they brought up Bozo's actual support for torture were blocked by the Brazilian Superior Electoral Court. Campaign ads for Bozo in which literal fake news about Haddad being a pedophile were allowed.
Allegations of massive campaign finance violations against Bozo weren't investigated.
Gee, I wonder if someone may have persuaded the TSE to overlook some of Bozo's things? Who could have done that, do you think it might have been someone with a lot of money?


hell

lula was allowed to campaign from prison (and winning) until what, september 1 this year?

imagine if you suddenly had to switch from a popular candidate to an unknown one 2 mo before an election

And Lula is far from the only one implicated in the corruption scandal, yet he's the only one fast tracked through the courts so that he can't run for president? On arguably a lot weaker charges than several of the other ones. I'm sure corporate interests have nothing to do with this, that's just an edgy teenage conspiracy theory
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RebelElite791
10/29/18 11:04:49 AM
#131:


Theres a difference between corporate interests support Bolsonaro and fascism is the end result of capitalism durr

Also funny how we suddenly care about the environmental and political exploitation of the meat industry
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Darkman124
10/29/18 11:08:04 AM
#132:


RebelElite791 posted...
Theres a difference between corporate interests support Bolsonaro and fascism is the end result of capitalism durr

Also funny how we suddenly care about the environmental and political exploitation of the meat industry


please do go on about why that is funny, and keep it specific to scar the 1 and me
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#133
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scar the 1
10/29/18 11:12:57 AM
#134:


RebelElite791 posted...
Theres a difference between corporate interests support Bolsonaro and fascism is the end result of capitalism durr

Also funny how we suddenly care about the environmental and political exploitation of the meat industry

Did you ever stop for a second and wonder why corporate interests support Bolso? Or if something similar had ever happened before?
The second part idk what you're on about, is this a jab at me being opportunistic or something?
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RebelElite791
10/29/18 11:13:38 AM
#135:


Godnorgosh posted...
scar the 1 posted...
Darkman124 posted...
scar the 1 posted...
Campaign ads for Haddad in which they brought up Bozo's actual support for torture were blocked by the Brazilian Superior Electoral Court. Campaign ads for Bozo in which literal fake news about Haddad being a pedophile were allowed.
Allegations of massive campaign finance violations against Bozo weren't investigated.
Gee, I wonder if someone may have persuaded the TSE to overlook some of Bozo's things? Who could have done that, do you think it might have been someone with a lot of money?


hell

lula was allowed to campaign from prison (and winning) until what, september 1 this year?

imagine if you suddenly had to switch from a popular candidate to an unknown one 2 mo before an election

And Lula is far from the only one implicated in the corruption scandal, yet he's the only one fast tracked through the courts so that he can't run for president? On arguably a lot weaker charges than several of the other ones. I'm sure corporate interests have nothing to do with this, that's just an edgy teenage conspiracy theory


Do you want capitalists to destroy the Amazon rainforest or do you want edgy teenagers to murder children? Those are your only options, clearly.

Ive been in this topic posting against Bozo for many pages now. Yes, clearly i support fascists who want to destroy the Amazon, genius.

And hey remember when you argued for an entire topic that veganism was bad and wouldnt have any effect without communism. Look at who wants to exploit the Amazon
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RebelElite791
10/29/18 11:15:34 AM
#136:


scar the 1 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Theres a difference between corporate interests support Bolsonaro and fascism is the end result of capitalism durr

Also funny how we suddenly care about the environmental and political exploitation of the meat industry

Did you ever stop for a second and wonder why corporate interests support Bolso? Or if something similar had ever happened before?
The second part idk what you're on about, is this a jab at me being opportunistic or something?

Again, corporate interests supporting him for their own monetary gain =/= capitalism leads to fascism. Or wed have far more fascist countries and the ones with the best standard of living wouldnt be capitalist social democracies.

And its a jab at people who eat meat and ignore the effect of the meat industry on the planet and climate acting like they care. If you dont do that, ignore that part
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scar the 1
10/29/18 11:17:01 AM
#137:


RebelElite791 posted...
Again, corporate interests supporting him for their own monetary gain =/= capitalism leads to fascism. Or wed have far more fascist countries and the ones with the best standard of living wouldnt be capitalist social democracies.

Riddle me this:
What's going on in most capitalist social democracies right now?
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#138
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Blo
10/29/18 11:21:18 AM
#139:


This guy seems like a real jerk
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averagejoel
10/29/18 12:10:06 PM
#140:


RebelElite791 posted...
Leave it to averagejoel to use any excuse to shitpost about capitalism

it wasn't a shitpost, and I was not the first to say that fascism is capitalism in decay
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EnragedSlith
10/29/18 12:15:24 PM
#141:


CornBarn posted...
what were people so unhappy about that drove them to vote for this guy in such large numbers?

Extreme amounts of violent crime and fear of becoming Venezuela
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averagejoel
10/29/18 12:19:43 PM
#142:


scar the 1 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Again, corporate interests supporting him for their own monetary gain =/= capitalism leads to fascism. Or wed have far more fascist countries and the ones with the best standard of living wouldnt be capitalist social democracies.

Riddle me this:
What's going on in most capitalist social democracies right now?

since he doesn't want to answer this question, I will.

their welfare states are crumbling, and there is a significantly increased presence of far-right nationalism
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scar the 1
10/29/18 12:22:00 PM
#143:


averagejoel posted...
since he doesn't want to answer this question, I will.

their welfare states are crumbling, and there is a significantly increased presence of far-right nationalism

And the rhetorical follow-up question is:
How are the big businesses acting here? Are capitalists taking a side?
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RebelElite791
10/29/18 12:31:57 PM
#144:


You tell us. Are big businesses flocking to groups like AFD and their even less popular Nordic counterparts?
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scar the 1
10/29/18 12:39:25 PM
#145:


RebelElite791 posted...
You tell us. Are big businesses flocking to groups like AFD and their even less popular Nordic counterparts?

Did you miss the part where I said rhetorical
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andel
10/29/18 12:42:55 PM
#146:


you clowns trying to make rebel out to be some super capitalist/fascist supporter are absurd. equating capitalism to fascism is the absurd perspective here and pretending like any significant percentage of capitalists support this incoming fascist regime is beyond the vale
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Antifar
10/29/18 12:46:46 PM
#147:


andel posted...
pretending like any significant percentage of capitalists support this incoming fascist regime is beyond the vale

The Wall Street Journal supports him. Given the choice between social democrats and Bolsonaro, capitalists chose Bolsonaro.
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RebelElite791
10/29/18 12:50:24 PM
#148:


scar the 1 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
You tell us. Are big businesses flocking to groups like AFD and their even less popular Nordic counterparts?

Did you miss the part where I said rhetorical

Did you miss the part where rhetorical doesn't mean "hypothetical"?

The point you were trying to make is no point at all if there's no actual evidence to support it, genius.
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RebelElite791
10/29/18 12:50:51 PM
#149:


Antifar posted...
andel posted...
pretending like any significant percentage of capitalists support this incoming fascist regime is beyond the vale

The Wall Street Journal supports him. Given the choice between social democrats and Bolsonaro, capitalists chose Bolsonaro.

Oh man, a right-wing newspaper supported a right-wing nutjob. Yep, that's "capitalists." All of em. You got it.
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scar the 1
10/29/18 1:04:43 PM
#150:


RebelElite791 posted...
Did you miss the part where rhetorical doesn't mean "hypothetical"?

The point you were trying to make is no point at all if there's no actual evidence to support it,

https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/naringslivets-hemliga-uppvaktning-av-sd/
Feel free to use Google to see if the trend is similar in other countries. It's certainly similar on EU level. And let's not forget how moderate politicians are already bending over backwards to paint left-wing socialist democrats as just as bad as the far right parties with literal essentialism in their official platform, not to mention the countless statements made by politicians and the dark violent inside. And so we're clear, the moderates' MO is to privatize and sell public businesses cheaply to their friends, then go into private industry and make a fortune. That's happening, it'll keep happening, and moderates aren't ashamed to lean on the far right to make it happen.

I don't even know why you're being contrarian about this. It's well known that every fascist regime was given power by greedy moderates who feared socialism more.
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