Board 8 > For all the flak DC takes for stumbling with their cinematic universe...

(+) Yeah! (+)

...it's not like Marvel started flawlessly either. The Incredible Hulk was hastily given connections to Iron Man in the wake of that film's success, Iron Man 2 was meddled with to set up The Avengers at the expense of its own plot (gee doesn't THAT sound familiar), and Thor doesn't really seem to be most people's favorite Marvel movie. Even after The Avengers, the next two films were...the highly-contested Iron Man 3 and Thor: The Dark World.

As far as I can tell standards for superhero movies were simply lower at the time the Phase 1 Marvel movies came out. The year before the MCU started saw the releases of...Ghost Rider, Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, and Spider-Man 3. The year before that, X-Men: The Last Stand and Superman Returns. Murderer's row right there!

Even as someone who does not like the DC Cinematic Universe or whatever it's called at all from what I've seen of it, I can't help but wonder.
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LinkMarioSamus posted...

in the wake of that film's success

Well, it started in the wake of a film's success which automatically puts it on much better footing.
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Marvel had weak connections at first because they still had to build a starter-pack in their universe before they add and tie in things. DC just went ham in putting everyone together before they meant anything.
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I'll still take Thor 1 over everything DCU but Wonder Woman.
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I can't think of a topic more tired and uninteresting than comparing DC to Marvel at this point.
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DC rushed to catch up with Marvel and they also like sucked the fun/life out of all their movies along the way too. Wonder Woman by some miracle turned out decent, but Id still take most of the Marvel movies over it. Even the pre-MCU Marvel movies beat out the DC cinematic universe.

Aquaman looks good
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Thing is while BvS got killed stone dead by those additions, Iron Man 2 was still pretty good

Not great, but certainly watchable and fun. BvS wasn't fun
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This is how I've heard it explained best.

Imagine if Marvel started with Iron Man. Then imagine it's 2nd movie was Civil War. Then imagine it's 3rd movie was The Sinister Six. Then imagine it's 4th movie was Captain America. Then finally its 5th movie was the Avengers where they introduced Thor, Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawkeye for the first time.

That's what DC did.
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The funny thing is that Civil War was conceived as a rival film to Batman v. Superman. It sure worked!
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Civil War wasn't a particularly good movie.

Thor 1's badness is overstated. I find it quite enjoyable.

Ed Norton's Incredible Hulk is also not a bad film at all. It doesn't feel like part of the universe because it isn't, and it's actually just fine on its own.

Iron Man 2 is definitely trash and in retrospect the fanficky hawkeye stuff is lame. Still, it, Iron Man 3, and Dr. Strange are the only Marvel movies that aren't better than Man of Steel or Batman vs. Superman. Plus, literally every Marvel movie is better than the Justice League film.

this is pretty revisionist

films like thor are only looked poorly upon compared to such films as everything awesome that came later in the MCU

they improved upon their successes. that doesn't take away from the success of the early films. and Iron Man 1, Thor 1, and Cap 1 were all definitely successes.
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colliding posted...

Iron Man 2 is definitely trash and in retrospect the fanficky hawkeye stuff is lame

?

The Hawkeye stuff was in Thor
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Man of Steel and BvS we're good. Wonder Woman was good also.

The only movies that really sucked were Justice League and Suicide Squad.
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Suicide Squad was good

The thing with Batman vs Superman is I think it was both too long and too short. I think it should have been just broken into 2 movies
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colliding posted...

It doesn't feel like part of the universe because it isn't,

how is it not part of the universe?
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Jakyl25 posted...

colliding posted...

Iron Man 2 is definitely trash and in retrospect the fanficky hawkeye stuff is lame

?

The Hawkeye stuff was in Thor

Oh yeah, you're right... what am I thinking of instead? Black Widow? Honestly I haven't seen the film in years and I only saw it twice.

CoolCly posted...

this is pretty revisionist

films like thor are only looked poorly upon compared to such films as everything awesome that came later in the MCU

they improved upon their successes. that doesn't take away from the success of the early films. and Iron Man 1, Thor 1, and Cap 1 were all definitely successes.

Well my point was more that Marvel didn't get off to the strongest start, and that standards for superhero films were simply lower back then.
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They did get off to a strong start though. Just because Thor 1 isn't as good as Thor Ragnarok doesn't mean it wasn't a strong movie to introduce Thor and lead into the Avengers with.
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Fair enough. I suppose with Marvel the shared universe aspect never seemed as shoehorned in during the Phase 1 films (except for maybe Iron Man 2) compared to DC.
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Crescent-Moon posted...

Civil War wasn't a particularly good movie.

Why are so many people on board 8 full of bad Marvel movie opinions.
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Civil War is decent, but there are definitely parts of I dont care for.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Well my point was more that Marvel didn't get off to the strongest start, and that standards for superhero films were simply lower back then.

Yeah I think you'd have a better point if the first three were of the quality of like Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 3, and Thor 2.

Or something.

Iron Man holds up fine. Thor holds up fine too really. They're not (well, Thor isn't-- Iron Man arguably is) thought of as the better films in the series because the series has gotten better over time but this isn't an X-Men situation.
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I've never actually watched the Marvel movies...I've been thinking about it though. Is it true that I can skip Hulk?

Hulk is pretty much completely irrelevant to the MCU. It's not even the same actor as Hulk in every other movie.
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WitcherGeralt posted...

I've never actually watched the Marvel movies...I've been thinking about it though. Is it true that I can skip Hulk?

Yeah.

I mean what's your goal? To see Infinity War and understand it? To get a comprehensive picture of every character, their growth, and development?

The short-list of movies you need to see for Infinity War to make sense is probably The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Age of Ultron, Civil War, and Thor: Ragnarok.

If you want a deeper appreciation of the main characters and their growth add Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, The Winter Soldier, and Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2 to your list.

If you want an even more comprehensive picture add Spider-Man: Homecoming, Doctor Strange, and Black Panther.
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Crossfiyah posted...

The short-list of movies you need to see for Infinity War to make sense is probably The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Age of Ultron, Civil War, and Thor: Ragnarok.

I'd argue Winter Soldier is more important to the mix (to make Civil War, which is necessary viewing, more coherent) than Age of Ultron is

Better movie too
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Winter Soldier is quite good and probably worth adding to the must-watch list, but Age of Ultron introduces 2 characters, introduces why Civil War happens altogether, and shows a lot of motivation for Tony behind why he's so gung-ho on engaging Thanos.
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Han just did a watchthrough of the entire MCU. He might be a good indicator of what he thinks might be skippable.

But personally I think you should just watch everything or not worry about it much at all and just watch any movie you want.
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CoolCly posted...

Han just did a watchthrough of the entire MCU.

well, not the entire MCU.

he didn't even watch inhumans!
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

CoolCly posted...

Han just did a watchthrough of the entire MCU.

well, not the entire MCU.

he didn't even watch inhumans!

did anyone?
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Lopen posted...

Crossfiyah posted...

The short-list of movies you need to see for Infinity War to make sense is probably The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Age of Ultron, Civil War, and Thor: Ragnarok.

I'd argue Winter Soldier is more important to the mix (to make Civil War, which is necessary viewing, more coherent) than Age of Ultron is

Better movie too

Here is what you should watch before infinity war.

Everything but antman, Thor, and incredible hulk. Maybe can skip iron Man 2 also.
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I feel like I'm the one guy on earth who is an Inhumans fan and not even I watched that.
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I watched all of Inhumans, pity me.
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Crossfiyah posted...

This is how I've heard it explained best.

Imagine if Marvel started with Iron Man. Then imagine it's 2nd movie was Civil War. Then imagine it's 3rd movie was The Sinister Six. Then imagine it's 4th movie was Captain America. Then finally its 5th movie was the Avengers where they introduced Thor, Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawkeye for the first time.

That's what DC did.

This is eye-opening
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colliding posted...

Thor 1's badness is overstated. I find it quite enjoyable.

Ed Norton's Incredible Hulk is also not a bad film at all. It doesn't feel like part of the universe because it isn't, and it's actually just fine on its own.

Iron Man 2 is definitely trash and in retrospect the fanficky hawkeye stuff is lame. Still, it, Iron Man 3, and Dr. Strange are the only Marvel movies that aren't better than Man of Steel or Batman vs. Superman. Plus, literally every Marvel movie is better than the Justice League film.

You clearly haven't watched any of these movies.

Anyway, bare-bones necessary viewing is: Avengers, GotG, then Infinity War. Mayyyyybe Thor: Ragnarok.

If you want a good set of films to watch to lead up to Infinity War, then Iron Man 1, Cap 1, Avengers, Cap 2, Civil War, Black Panther, Thor: Ragnarok, then Infinity War.

If you want to watch all the films but avoid ones that actively are shit, don't watch Thor 2, Ultron, or Iron Man 2.

I haven't seen Ant Man 2 yet, just ftr.
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Iron Man got robbed. That first movie was so good and the other 2 were not very good at all. The first one is still one of my favorite superhero movies to watch

HarrietTubgirl posted...

Crossfiyah posted...

This is how I've heard it explained best.

Imagine if Marvel started with Iron Man. Then imagine it's 2nd movie was Civil War. Then imagine it's 3rd movie was The Sinister Six. Then imagine it's 4th movie was Captain America. Then finally its 5th movie was the Avengers where they introduced Thor, Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawkeye for the first time.

That's what DC did.

This is eye-opening

It's actually more like it's 4th movie was Thor. But yeah, I get the point.

Thor is easily the best of the phase 1 movies, honestly. But you are totally right that the MCU wasn't really anything special until...well, really until Winter Soldier came along in phase 2 and elevated everything. It's been top tier since around then.

Doesn't excuse DC's insanely rushed execution.
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colliding posted...

It's actually more like it's 4th movie was Thor. But yeah, I get the point.

Well you're kinda splitting hairs. Wonder Woman combines elements of both Cap and Thor. Not wrong to say either one.

And yes I agree that 2014 really kicked things up a notch what with both Winter Soldier and Guardians coming out. Looking at the release order it's amazing what a turning point they are. Avengers 1 is the only really good movie from before that and then there's a whole bunch after that that I love.
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Iron Man and Cap 1 were solid movies. Not spectacular, but they were special compared to the superhero movies we were accustomed to.
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StartTheMachine posted...

Thor is easily the best of the phase 1 movies, honestly. But you are totally right that the MCU wasn't really anything special until...well, really until Winter Soldier came along in phase 2 and elevated everything. It's been top tier since around then.

Doesn't excuse DC's insanely rushed execution.

I guess you're right. My point was more that Marvel didn't get off to an earth-shaking start, since so many complain about the DCEU being built on an unstable foundation to begin with. However yes, DC has been a million times more blatant about setting up a shared universe than Marvel was. With Marvel it was more like a bunch of "regular" superhero movies with some Easter eggs hinting at a greater shared universe (again, probably minus Iron Man 2).

Like I said, standards for superhero movies have also risen greatly since the MCU started. Part of me wonders if Batman v. Superman would have been better-received had it come out a decade earlier (which was indeed planned at one stage, but WB chose to make the Dark Knight trilogy and Superman Returns instead), considering the grimdark style was less frowned upon back then.
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Cap 1 is so underrated.
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Actually yeah I love Iron Man 1

Like the rest too but yeah
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