Current Events > why aren't weigh-ins for combat sports done before the match

(+) Yeah! (+)

doesn't it completely defeat the purpose of weightclasses if you have a bigger dude cutting like crazy to squeeze into a lower weightclass and then going back to his normal weight for the match itself

@MuayThai85 can you help me understand dude

Multiple reasons. One, fighter safety. Fighters will always try to get an advantage when it comes to weight, you'll still have fighters dehydrating themselves which will lead to worse fights (strength and cardio issues from weight cutting) and increased chances of fighters getting killed in the ring. Another reason is because it'll be too unpredictable whether fighters will make the proper weight for that fight if done directly before the fight. You'll have fighters also fighting in higher weight classes when they are in-between weights. Think someone who is 195lbs normally, they'll either have to put themselves in danger by cutting weight to reach 185lbs or they'll have to fight a larger opponent who weighs 205lbs.

For the most part, everyone cuts weight for combat sports. If 2 fighters weigh-in the day before at 170lbs, both will likely be around 190lbs at fight time anyways so it is still fair.
---

if someone can't make that weight class when in fighting condition, maybe they should, you know, not fight in that weight class?

MuayThai85 posted...

If 2 fighters weigh-in the day before at 170lbs, both will likely be around 190lbs at fight time

How can someone gain 20 pounds in one day?
---

Ten pounds water and you would be surprised the lengths fighters go through. There are fighters who show up looking 20 pounds heavier.

Manocheese posted...

MuayThai85 posted...

If 2 fighters weigh-in the day before at 170lbs, both will likely be around 190lbs at fight time

How can someone gain 20 pounds in one day?

They are dehydrating themselves and eating very little for the days leading up to the weigh-in. GSP would weigh 195lbs after weighing in at 170 lbs. Daniel Cormier says he's about 235lbs at fight time when he weighed in at 205lbs.

Just look at some photos of these guys at the weigh in and then again at the fight. Conor McGregor would look like a holocaust victim when he cut to 145lbs.
---

It is unfair. I say give them a grace of the 5 pounds. If you are over that then you forfeit.
---

cjsdowg posted...

It is unfair. I say give them a grace of the 5 pounds. If you are over that then you forfeit.

It really isn't though. Sure, there are some outliers who cut very little to no weight (Frankie Edgar) but the majority are fighting at about 15lbs heavier than what they weighed in at. What needs to happen, is new rules about weight cutting that will keep fighters from putting themselves in danger by doing extreme weight cuts. Anthony "Rumble" Johnson is a huge LHW (205lbs and he cuts to make weight there), he use to fight at 170lbs. The thing is, he is far more dangerous at LHW because he doesn't put his body through nearly as much hell to make weight.
---

i'd say it would be perfect to be weighing themselves right before they enter the ring.
if they couldn't make weight right then and there, they would lose 100% of their purse to the opponent.

i don't care what anyone says about fighter safety or advantages etc... nobody's gonna willfully lose that full paycheck and doubly so if there's a chance they'll get paid 2x because of the stupidity of their opponent.

we would probably see way more balanced fights that way instead of lopsided shit like edgar vs ortega.
---

Manocheese posted...

MuayThai85 posted...

If 2 fighters weigh-in the day before at 170lbs, both will likely be around 190lbs at fight time

How can someone gain 20 pounds in one day?

Weight cutting in fighting (and in some other sports) is water weight. Guys cut at least an entire weight division and then rehydrate to a much bigger size for the fight.

AsucaHayashi posted...

i'd say it would be perfect to be weighing themselves right before they enter the ring.
if they couldn't make weight right then and there, they would lose 100% of their purse to the opponent.

Who is going to pay the fighter the now 200% purse? Because it sure as fuck won't be the promoter seeing as how the fight won't happen. No professional fighter is going to fight while not getting paid... All this would do is outright destroy events and cost fight promotions AND fighters a lot of money (not just the fighter who missed weight but also the fighter who made weight but won't be fighting and likely not getting paid because of it).

Your idea would never in a million years work. OneFC has a good weigh in method. Fighters take regular hydration tests throughout camp and have to weigh within certain ranges leading up to the fight. It reduces extreme weight cuts while also increasing fighter safety.
---

I agree, weigh em before the match. Just change their fucking weight class if they cant make the lower class. None of this dudes arguments are making any sense right now.
---

DanHarenChamp posted...

I agree, weigh em before the match. Just change their fucking weight class if they cant make the lower class. None of this dudes arguments are making any sense right now.

It doesn't make sense to you because you've likely never competed in any kind of combat sport in your life. Weight cutting has always been a part of combat sports. From Olympic wrestling to pro boxing and it will never go away. When you have weight classes, people will always try to make it to the lowest possible weight class they can make. Amateur wrestlers have literally died because of same day weigh ins... Not just adults but high school wrestlers.
---

MuayThai85 posted...

No professional fighter is going to fight while not getting paid

then that's on them since the OTHER fighter is getting paid their full win and you're really not gonna convince anyone that fighters wouldn't sign up for that shit with a chance of getting paid in full because of their opponent's stupidity.

as for fighters even thinking about missing weight, they would obv be contractually obligated to make weight and without any weight cutting shenanigans i'd say only the dumbest of the dumb wouldn't be able to fight in their chosen division.
---

MuayThai85 posted...

DanHarenChamp posted...

I agree, weigh em before the match. Just change their fucking weight class if they cant make the lower class. None of this dudes arguments are making any sense right now.

It doesn't make sense to you because you've likely never competed in any kind of combat sport in your life. Weight cutting has always been a part of combat sports. From Olympic wrestling to pro boxing and it will never go away. When you have weight classes, people will always try to make it to the lowest possible weight class they can make. Amateur wrestlers have literally died because of same day weigh ins... Not just adults but high school wrestlers.

This, mainly. It's a part of the very culture of these sports and it won't go away. The more responsible thing to do is safeguard the well-being of the fighters doing it.

MuayThai85 posted...

DanHarenChamp posted...

I agree, weigh em before the match. Just change their fucking weight class if they cant make the lower class. None of this dudes arguments are making any sense right now.

It doesn't make sense to you because you've likely never competed in any kind of combat sport in your life. Weight cutting has always been a part of combat sports. From Olympic wrestling to pro boxing and it will never go away. When you have weight classes, people will always try to make it to the lowest possible weight class they can make. Amateur wrestlers have literally died because of same day weigh ins... Not just adults but high school wrestlers.

>duhh its always been like that, it shouldnt change

we should also hit each other with clubs and wear loincloths made out of animal fur.

AsucaHayashi posted...

MuayThai85 posted...

No professional fighter is going to fight while not getting paid

then that's on them since the OTHER fighter is getting paid their full win and you're really not gonna convince anyone that fighters wouldn't sign up for that shit with a chance of getting paid in full because of their opponent's stupidity.

as for fighters even thinking about missing weight, they would obv be contractually obligated to make weight and without any weight cutting shenanigans i'd say only the dumbest of the dumb wouldn't be able to fight in their chosen division.

High school wrestlers have literally died cutting weight for same day weigh ins. You're naive as fuck if you think professional fighters wouldn't risk it. This rule set would lead to actual deaths inside the cage. If a fighter missed weight, they won't fight for free and the promoter sure as fuck isn't going to pony up a 200% purse AND win bonus for a fight that isn't going to happen. You're delusional as fuck if you think they would do that...
---

Same day weigh ins are a bad idea for most of the reasons already said.

IMO, I think having less wight classes would help minimize some of the dramatic cutting that is dangerous but obviously isn't in the interest of the fighting organizations that want to be able to sell lots of different champions. If there were only like four weight class with 30 or 40lbs between them I think people would be less inclined to make dramatic weight cuts and be able to fight at more realistic weights. There would still be cutting but I don't think it would be as dramatic for some of the guys.
---

High school wrestlers have literally died cutting weight for same day weigh ins. You're naive as fuck if you think professional fighters wouldn't risk it.

that doesn't make sense. if they're weighing in right before the fight why would they enter the ring in an exhaustive state instead of a state they could actually fight in?
the worse they themselves choose to be is the easier win for the other fighter.

If a fighter missed weight, they won't fight for free

then they'll be cut from the fight and on repeat offenses be cut from the organization as part of their contract... the promoter can take the temporary loss if it means finding proper competition in the end.

hell, even backup fighters could be on standby ready to step in on incredibly short notice especially if they know there's a good chance they can fight right then and there instead of waiting months for a chance.

Conflict posted...

Username checks out

he has a point though.

eg. tons of organizations seems to openly allow PEDs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5vOxDUs7g" data-time="

so why shouldn't they just get rid of organizations like USADA since "it's just part of the culture"?
---

People should be fighting at their walking around weight. If one guy cuts 20 pounds of water and the guy they are facing is natural at that weight class. Then that goes against the whole idea of the of weight classes to start with.

If people want to risk that bullshit that people do to cut weight before a day of fight that are dumb but that is on them. And it is less dangerous for the person that they are fighting.
---

whitelytning posted...

If there were only like four weight class with 30 or 40lbs between them I think people would be less inclined to make dramatic weight cuts and be able to fight at more realistic weights.

40lbs would be a RIDICULOUS amount of weight to give up in any grappling/clinching based combat.

ArchiePeck posted...

whitelytning posted...

If there were only like four weight class with 30 or 40lbs between them I think people would be less inclined to make dramatic weight cuts and be able to fight at more realistic weights.

40lbs would be a RIDICULOUS amount of weight to give up in any grappling/clinching based combat.

Thats my point. Some people say that lots of smaller weight classes does a better job because people have more options but I think it just encourages 15-20lb cuts because they are doable but also dangerous. A 40lb cut is not.

AsucaHayashi posted...

High school wrestlers have literally died cutting weight for same day weigh ins. You're naive as fuck if you think professional fighters wouldn't risk it.

that doesn't make sense. if they're weighing in right before the fight why would they enter the ring in an exhaustive state instead of a state they could actually fight in?
the worse they themselves choose to be is the easier win for the other fighter.

As someone that has cut weight, you don't go into it thinking you are going to pass out if you have to wrestle. You are a competitor and think you will be fine and are confident in your abilities so you think you can cut the weight without a problem because you have wrestled or fought at the weight in the past and had been fine. You cannot let rational thought police the issue because at the top levels peoples' belief in their own ability outweighs everything else. Its what makes them the best.
---

Exactly. These kids and fighters don't go in thinking they are badly diminished. Competitors are always looking for an advantage in whatever they legally can (and in some cases illegally like PEDs).

If boxing and MMA enforced these rules, fighters would still cut weight and then after a few blows to the head the UFC and other major combat sport organisations will have fighters getting killed in the cage/ring. If high school wrestlers risk it, so will elite fighters.
---

whitelytning posted...

You cannot let rational thought police the issue

and that's where "it's part of the culture" stuff is pretty bs. rational thought is already policing the use of PEDs so there's no reason whatsoever it shouldn't also police weight cutting since we're at a point where fights are already called off.

there's really no proof any other way wouldn't work if policed correctly.

the best argument against it is still "it's part of the culture" but so were/are PEDs.
---

AsucaHayashi posted...

rational thought is already policing the use of PEDs so there's no reason whatsoever it shouldn't also police weight cutting to the point where fights are already called off.

Cutting and PEDs are different and I don't think you can police them the same.

With PEDs you can say "[substance] is prohibited at any level." Then you do a blood test and if you find the substance you can enforce a penalty. How do you police cutting?
---

You simply don't understand competitive athletics then. Even with "policing", fighters would still risk cutting weight. Then fighters will start dropping dead in higher numbers than ever before followed by these sports being banned. Athletes will ALWAYS look for any edge they can give themselves and it doesn't matter what sport it is in.

PEDs are an UNNATURAL advantage, dehydrating yourself is just abusing your body not pumping yourself full of chemicals. The two things aren't even remotely similar.
---

This AsucaHayashi's posts are hilarious.

whitelytning posted...

How do you police cutting?

by going on the weight right before entering the ring.

weight cutting is not gonna give them any real benefit since they don't get any time whatsoever to rehydrate except after the first round during that 1 minute break.

if they're weak they're just gonna lose that much easier to the benefit of the opponent who didn't cut weight and comes in healthy from the get go.

maybe i overshot by saying the fighter missing weight should be losing his entire purse but there should definitely be stricter penalties say 20% per pound of missed weight.

people keep saying "but but fighters are gonna USE ANY BENEFIT to win!!!" but what if... just WHAT IF coming in healthy and not dehydrated becomes the absolute best benefit they can have? crazy huh?
---

AsucaHayashi posted...

maybe i overshot by saying the fighter missing weight should be losing his entire purse but there should definitely be stricter penalties say 20% per pound of missed weight.

So 5 pounds and they lose everything? So they wouldn't fight. And nobody gets paid. Help, they probably wouldn't go for it even if the most they could lose is 20%. Aside from the big league guys, most fighters aren't making much money to begin with.

Mr_Rian posted...

So 5 pounds and they lose everything? So they wouldn't fight. And nobody gets paid. Help, they probably wouldn't go for it even if the most they could lose is 20%. Aside from the big league guys, most fighters aren't making much money to begin with.

don't think about everything so matter of factly.. they're still just suggestions.

fact is that losing 20% isn't even that big of a deal since it seems like there's one fighter missing weight at every other UFC event nowadays.
---