Current Events > Idris Elba playing James Bond = ok, Scar Jo playing a transgender = bad?

(+) Yeah! (+)

eston posted...

Honestly, reading in the article about how the real person was constantly misgendered it seems somewhat insulting to cast someone like ScarJo for the part, and downright baffling when you look at the pictures

Yeah, when I saw pics of the actual person, I said "what the fuck?" out loud knowing that Scarlett Johanson was playing them. Obviously there would have been makeup effects, and even though special effects are really good now, there's no way it wouldn't have looked comical, especially knowing it was ScarJo.

Just a bizarre casting decision.
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I when has Idris Elba as Bond happened?
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averagejoel posted...

a black james bond wouldn't work because he'd spend the whole movie getting pulled over for driving an aston martin

I smiled
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Zero_Destroyer posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Read the books - Bond is white as fuck.

Why does this matter? How is it important to his character? What makes him distinctly white, and have the traits that made him "distinctly white" carried over to the various film continuities? How is he unable to be black?

Because whitewashing is bad for some reason.
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FrisbeeDude posted...

"Race/gender shouldn't be emphasized. It should always be the best person for the part!"

"Every white superhero character and anyone associated with them who was white in the comics needs to stay white in movie adaptations. It's not right to change establish character aesthetics"

You'd be the first person to bitch if a black character was cast to an actor who isn't black, so this is the epitome of pot/kettle.
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darkjedilink posted...

Because whitewashing is bad for some reason.

You are not arguing in good faith.
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James Bond being black in-and-of itself isnt the problem. Its all of the smug, asshole progressives that get off on firsts.

It would be another progressive circle-jerk like Black Panther all over again...
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Why can't you just make a British spy movie with a black guy? The Kingsmen didn't flounder because it wasn't James Bond. Unless you're arguing that literally the only way to make a bond-like black hero succeed is by riding off existing name recognition, then just make your own IP.
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Zero_Destroyer posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Because whitewashing is bad for some reason.

You are not arguing in good faith.

Sure am, unless you can tell me why whites in non-white roles is bad but the reverse is good.
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TIL James Bond's whiteness is inherent to his character motivations.
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CyricZ posted...

TIL James Bond's whiteness is inherent to his character motivations.

If it was about that, there'd have been zero backlash over Ghosts in the Shell, since it's literally about robots.
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darkjedilink posted...

CyricZ posted...

TIL James Bond's whiteness is inherent to his character motivations.

If it was about that, there'd have been zero backlash over Ghosts in the Shell, since it's literally about robots.

Its easier to see a Black Scottish man than it is to see a caucasian Japanese person.
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darkjedilink posted...

Sure am, unless you can tell me why whites in non-white roles is bad but the reverse is good.

I discussed nuances to this in this thread in posts you likely saw but ignored. Stop arguing in bad faith.
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Zero_Destroyer posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Sure am, unless you can tell me why whites in non-white roles is bad but the reverse is good.

I discussed nuances to this in this thread in posts you likely saw but ignored. Stop arguing in bad faith.

What 'nuance' was there in GitS, where she played a fucking robot?
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CommonJoe posted...

darkjedilink posted...

CyricZ posted...

TIL James Bond's whiteness is inherent to his character motivations.

If it was about that, there'd have been zero backlash over Ghosts in the Shell, since it's literally about robots.

Its easier to see a Black Scottish man than it is to see a caucasian Japanese person.

She played a robot.
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s0nicfan posted...

Why can't you just make a British spy movie with a black guy? The Kingsmen didn't flounder because it wasn't James Bond. Unless you're arguing that literally the only way to make a bond-like black hero succeed is by riding off existing name recognition, then just make your own IP.

@Zero_Destroyer

You seem like someone willing to make and listen to reasonable arguments. I'm curious what your take on my earlier post is, since honestly before we argue the merits of whether James Bond can be black versus white I think people still need to make a compelling argument for why it has to be James Bond and not a new character.
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darkjedilink posted...

What 'nuance' was there in GitS, where she played a fucking robot?

Here, let me hold your hand and repost -

Also, yes, there was a lot of backlash over ScarJo as Kusanagi. But I personally don't consider it much of an issue for the same reason that none of the race changing in Death Note mattered (where no characters afaik were the same as they were in the original - crypto-racists do love to focus on L being black and nobody else, though. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm)

It's because it takes place in an entirely separate continuity with a large number of changes to the source material that involve new plotlines/ideas or meshing things together from source materials.

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I love djl tripling down on GitS being "about robots". Really shows he understands the source material.
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CyricZ posted...

I love djl tripling down on GitS being "about robots". Really shows he understands the source material.

I have yet to come across a subject he understands.
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s0nicfan posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Why can't you just make a British spy movie with a black guy? The Kingsmen didn't flounder because it wasn't James Bond. Unless you're arguing that literally the only way to make a bond-like black hero succeed is by riding off existing name recognition, then just make your own IP.

@Zero_Destroyer

You seem like someone willing to make and listen to reasonable arguments. I'm curious what your take on my earlier post is, since honestly before we argue the merits of whether James Bond can be black versus white I think people still need to make a compelling argument for why it has to be James Bond and not a new character.

I don't think James bond "must" be black. My viewpoint is that if Idris Elba or another black actor were cast I wouldn't take issue since there is malleable continuity with franchises in terms of what can be rebooted.

I actually would like Idris Elba as Bond, but that's because I think he's a very good actor who would make a good Bond. If he wasn't cast, my second option wouldn't automatically be a black actor because it's about the actor for me and not the race.

It could just as easily be Idris Elba in a good spy movie and I'd still be happy with it; I'd get stuck on Bond more because you know what tone and style to expect from a Bond movie rather than an upstart franchise.

I think Tom Hardy in earnest is the most likely replacement for Craig, which is fine.

It's not an issue I care a lot about, but I think the OP is absurd and the comparison doesn't make sense
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more GitS stuff

You could probably make some sort of argument with Kusanagi that whitewashing is semi-pertinent even as a robot since androids produced in a hypothetical future would likely be ethnically accurate to their region, especially in a country as xenophobic as Japan.

I don't attach to these because I don't really think it matters unless their ethnicity or race is important to the material.

So, conversely, I think the casting in The Last Airbender is pretty bad, because the societies in that series were inspired/designed based on real ones. I think that's relevant because rather than one character with a hypothetically malleable ethnicity (due to being an android) you have entire social structures meant to be one race in the source material that are inconsistent/modified for no apparent reason.

That being said, since these subjects come up a lot in adapting animated media with a lot of worldbuilding/background, the best solution is for Hollywood to cease taking steaming dumps on good works of fiction or hire somebody who cares and let them control production
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If it was just another fictional movie I would say it doesn't matter but it's based off a real transgender person so I can see why people would want an actual trans to play the part

darkjedilink posted...

Read the books - Bond is white as fuck.

Will the new movie be a faithful adaptation of a particular book?
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I understand why people could get upset about it, but like, no one got upset when Eddie Redmayne played a transgender character in The Danish Girl. In fact, he received a shit ton of praise for that performance.

Like, be consistent at least, don't just target and harass one actress if you legitimately feel like it's a genuine issue.
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Dont care about either case, to be honest. I think both would be fine
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Barenziah Boy Toy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Read the books - Bond is white as fuck.

Will the new movie be a faithful adaptation of a particular book?

What's your criteria for faithful? Like, at what point do you say "it's not faithful, so change whatever you want"? 10% different from the books? 20%? 51%? If the movie is 25% different from the books, are you suggesting that's carte blanche to completely rewrite the remaining 75%?
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s0nicfan posted...

What's your criteria for faithful? Like, at what point do you say "it's not faithful, so change whatever you want"? 10% different from the books? 20%? 51%? If the movie is 25% different from the books, are you suggesting that's carte blanche to completely rewrite the remaining 75%?

My criteria for faithful is that it the story is set at exactly the same time period AND geographic area, as in the books.

If you're going to change the setting to modern times, then all fucking bets are off.
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i didnt know they still made James Bond movies
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first of all people already complain about james bond being played by idris elba, or other similar situations. "why not make a new character" gets said a ton.

the transgendered aspect of the character would likely be more important than james bond's whiteness.

having transgender character is rarer than having a white male character. having transgender actors is rarer than white male actors.

scarjo just did a role that people wanted an "appropriate" person for. (though it can be argued that kusanagi can be white)
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People were mad at Idris Elba for playing Heimdall
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Hayame Zero posted...

I would be more bothered by Bond not being from the UK than his race, so I'd be fine with Elba.

He's already been played by two non-Brits, an Australian and an Irishman.
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Southernfatman posted...

Le__seul_dieu__ posted...

isn't it accepted canon that james bond is just a code name and anyone can be james bond, similar to someone like Robin/spiderman?

No. It's a fan theory to explain why the actors change and why Bond doesn't get older. James Bond is the character's real name. 007 is the codename.

Even then, James Bond is a fictional character that has changed actors (and personality traits, to some extent) across dozens of appearances. He could be portrayed by Idris Elba. It wouldn't be crazy.

But if you want to portray a trans person, and authenticity, acceptance, exposure, it makes a lot of sense to pick an actual trans person for the role.
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alt_no_1_loves posted...

But if you want to portray a trans person, and authenticity, acceptance, exposure, it makes a lot of sense to pick an actual trans person for the role.

how does that make a lot of sense? Just because they would be trans, doesn't mean they would be good at acting, or be more believable than a regular actor with a lot of experience under their belt.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

James Bond is a fictional character.

Based partially on Christopher Lee.
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As long as whoever plays Bond can actually do a proper British accent, I don't really care beyond that.
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s0nicfan posted...

Why can't you just make a British spy movie with a black guy? The Kingsmen didn't flounder because it wasn't James Bond. Unless you're arguing that literally the only way to make a bond-like black hero succeed is by riding off existing name recognition, then just make your own IP.

Or maybe it's the Bond franchise that's getting old and stale, and IT IS THEY that want to try something new.
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TheSextMachine posted...

Based partially on Christopher Lee.

But he's still a fictional character, making this fairly irrelevant, especially decades past the context of Bond's creation as a character.
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I still want to know when Idris Elba playing Bond happened.
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Comfy_Pillow posted...

alt_no_1_loves posted...

But if you want to portray a trans person, and authenticity, acceptance, exposure, it makes a lot of sense to pick an actual trans person for the role.

how does that make a lot of sense? Just because they would be trans, doesn't mean they would be good at acting, or be more believable than a regular actor with a lot of experience under their belt.

don't do this. they're obviously they're not going cast a non-actor for a role in a movie. trans actors do exist.

also don't try to frame it as though there are "trans" actors and "regular" actors the word you're looking for is "cis"
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creativerealms posted...

I still want to know when Idris Elba playing Bond happened.

It hasn't, but it's frequently mentioned as a "I want this" type of deal, so it's vaguely relevant to the subject of changing the race/gender/etc. of established characters.

OP did it in the worst way, but he's trolling as is because he never came back
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