Board 8 > Finally got a new job. Now... should I negotiate on pay?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I assume the general answer is "yes", but I'm mainly looking for advice on how to do this politely and effectively, especially from those of us who have done it before (I never have). I'll give you guys all the deetz:

- I've been out of work for six months since my last accounting firm closed down. I managed some freelance tax work to keep from dipping into my savings too much, but they know I haven't had fulltime employment in half a year.

- They're offering base pay of $62.5k along with a benefits package that seems quite strong (they'll come over the top on 401k matching and are claiming an annual bonus of 12.5% of base).

- I'm happy with the benefits but was hoping for base in the 65-70k range. My parents, who are extremely cautious about this stuff, are wary about negotiating. I told my sister and she immediately said to shoot for 70.

- Last we chatted, the recruiter told me she "thought" people in my position got 65k, but she "wasn't sure". This gives me the feeling they might be lowballing a bit and I may have room to play ball.

- I'm worried that my unemployed status means I won't be negotiating with any leverage, and they'll deny outright. My one ace in the hole is that I've earned a professional certification since last chatting with them, but I don't think that'll balance out six months of unemployment.

So yeah, that's all the probably-too-much information. Any advice from fellow Boars 8 wage slaves?
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I saw someone on a different social board do some negotiating. He (I think it was a he?) asked for a pay bump and some added time off, and he got a few thousand more per year but no on the time off. Then again, the position was for a director's position at a university.

Check out Glassdoor.com and see what they say about both the company and the prevailing wage in your area. You might be able to negotiate a few dollars more. Just keep in mind the level of competition and don't overplay your hand.

Do you feel they will rescind the offer if you try to negotiate? Can you continue to manage if they did so? Know your worth, be confident, negotiate.
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shoot for 67.5 imo
also i know nothing about the world
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If you have been out of work for 6 months, think of the opportunity cost if you are out of work for another 6 because they go with someone more desperate than you.

Like you said, you don't have much leverage right now. I would be fairly cautious and not ask for much. But do ask for something.

Edit: what did you make at your last job
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I know the fear of an offer being rescinded is there, but that really shouldn't happen if it's a company of any size or reputation. If we're talking a big-name firm here, it really shouldn't happen.

I have had success in the past where I was offered X, I really wanted X + 10 so I said I was hoping for X + 20. And sure enough, they "split the difference" and amended the offer to X + 10. So I thought of that here, you could say you were looking for 70, and if they come back with 65 you're golden. But I had the leverage in my case, knowing that wasn't the kind of company that would rescind an offer so there was no harm in at least trying it.

The difference between 62.5 and 70 may be too much to push for. Let's say you ask for 65k instead, one of four things happens:
-They accept
-They say they can't budge and you accept it, at least you tried
-They're really pedantic and do the "split the difference" to an amount between 62.5 and 65, you get a few extra bux out of it
-They totally rescind the offer. If they rescind the offer over you asking for a mere $2,500 (which is literally like $50 a week of gross pay), is that even a company you want to work for? It seems unnecessarily cruel, when they could simply just say "sorry 62.5 is the final offer, we can't budge".

Also, it seems you already established 65k as a number you had in mind. It's standard procedure for a recruiter to ask what your expectations are - did that happen? If you quoted 65-70 as your expectations and they offered you a number below your floor, well, that might not be the best sign (but there is also a chance of miscommunication or that nugget of info not making its way from the interview to the offer). "Internal equity" may also come into play, they may not want to hire you at a salary too close to who your boss will be, or at a higher salary than another person on the team, so their hands may be tied in that respect.

I would take the gamble and ask for 65k, but I know there is some risk and great fear there. I know it's scary but if it's a big company, I just can't see them rescinding it totally over such a small ask, it'd be so simple for them to just say "sorry 62.5 is final offer"... so long as there is logic in your counter to 65k, either based on what you were making previously or based on what your "market research for an appropriate salary for someone with my experience and certification" provided, it should be good.

Just uh, don't blame me if these people are jerks.

MartinFF7 posted...

either based on what you were making previously or based on what your "market research for an appropriate salary for someone with my experience and certification" provided, it should be good.

This sounds good, definitely include something like this.
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Ask for 67k
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Personally I've only negotiated when I already had a job. That's when you have actual leverage.

Do you really want to risk a further prolonged unemployment over $2.5K?

If you have another offer on the table, then by all means negotiate and inquire if it would be possible to get to the $65K level as had been previously discussed.
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I think asking for 65 to 67 wouldnt be crazy. Congrats thats a solid starting salary in most areas.
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I wasn't able to negotiate in my current job, seeing it was a set-salary government position. I was going to negotiate it 100% seeing as I had the job already.

You do realize there might be a close runner-up to you that would take the $62.5K, right? If you don't have the job already, take the money.
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Personally I'd play conservative in your position and take the current offer, assuming everything else about the situation was golden (health benefits, retirement, vacation time, not too much overtime, etc).


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The time off is gonna hurt any negotiating power you have, so don't shoot too high or they'll probably just pass you over
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Is this another accounting firm? Assuming it's a smaller one, I'd say go for asking for a little more.

If our hiring woes are just like they are at that firm, there aren't as many qualified applicants as you'd think. I'd guess they don't have more than a couple candidates, if any, to choose from.
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Korayashi posted...

Do you feel they will rescind the offer if you try to negotiate?

The uncertainty that comes from long-term unemployment makes me fear it, but logically, I'd be pretty shocked if they did this. They are a very large company, and polite negotiation should be expected.

KingButz posted...

If you have been out of work for 6 months, think of the opportunity cost if you are out of work for another 6 because they go with someone more desperate than you.

True, though the nature of this application process leads me to believe that they're not really considering other people (or at least many). The job was never posted publicly.

KingButz posted...

Edit: what did you make at your last job

61 base + (meager) bonuses, so they've already come in a little over the top. I know that asking for more might make me appear greedy considering my situation, but I'm switching industries from public accounting to corporate, and a pay bump is commonplace when doing so. I know colleagues who went from 60 to 80-90 with a similar jump, and while I obviously can't shoot for that, I still want something a little more.

MartinFF7 posted...

It's standard procedure for a recruiter to ask what your expectations are - did that happen?

Didn't happen, surprisingly. The one time the recruiter nonchalantly said she "thought" someone at my level would get around 65k was the only time they mentioned compensation on their end. I honestly can't even remember if they asked me what my prior salary was (this dialogue began a while ago, so my memory's a little fuzzy).

But yeah, I agree with you that a rescinding of the offer seems unrealistic and cruel, especially when my request isn't ridiculous. And I'll also make sure to bring up market factors, since my gf actually JUST got a new job making 65k in a position not too dissimilar to mine, which I think is a fair rate for a senior accountant in this city. Thank you for the thoughtful post. =)

Zenithian Legend posted...

Do you really want to risk a further prolonged unemployment over $2.5K?

Nope, but despite my fears, I generally believe that they'll counter a negotiation request with a denial or counter-offer, and not a flat-out rescinding. If they deny, I'll take the job at 62.5k. If they rescind outright... that's a pretty severe escalation imo, and might hint at douchey management, as Martin pointed out. I have had two rounds of in-person interviews with six of their people along with a brief tour of their office, so they have invested some time and resources in me. It would surprise me if they changed tone that much and immediately walked.

Metal_DK posted...

I think asking for 65 to 67 wouldnt be crazy. Congrats thats a solid starting salary in most areas.

Thank you!

Ngamer64 posted...

Personally I'd play conservative in your position and take the current offer, assuming everything else about the situation was golden (health benefits, retirement, vacation time, not too much overtime, etc).

Ng you sound just like my dad.
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StealThisSheen posted...

The time off is gonna hurt any negotiating power you have, so don't shoot too high or they'll probably just pass you over

I'm hoping 65-67k isn't too high. For whatever reason, 70 represents a mental block, and I'm too hesitant to ask for it.

Menji posted...

Is this another accounting firm? Assuming it's a smaller one, I'd say go for asking for a little more.

If our hiring woes are just like they are at that firm, there aren't as many qualified applicants as you'd think. I'd guess they don't have more than a couple candidates, if any, to choose from.

Nope, I'm making the jump from public to corporate. This is a large precious metals mining company. I've actually turned down a couple public accounting jobs in the last six months because I had enough of it. Constantly tracking time, juggling charge codes, and being married to the job got old. My last job was actually remarkably tame in terms of public accounting rigors, and I still wasn't that happy with it, so the writing was on the wall that it was time to try something new.
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Just give them the ole "I will get back to you, I need to go decide if this offer meets my needs"

In my experience if they have a raise to give that'll get it for you.
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Thanks for all the general advice, team.

One thing I wanted to ask: do you think it's better to make a negotiation request over the phone, or in writing as a response to the offer email? I have a few questions about health insurance/bonuses/etc that I wanted to run through the recruiter, and it seems reasonable to me to include the salary negotiation as part of those questions.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Thanks for all the general advice, team.

One thing I wanted to ask: do you think it's better to make a negotiation request over the phone, or in writing as a response to the offer email? I have a few questions about health insurance/bonuses/etc that I wanted to run through the recruiter, and it seems reasonable to me to include the salary negotiation as part of those questions.

Email
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Eddv posted...

Just give them the ole "I will get back to you, I need to go decide if this offer meets my needs"

In my experience if they have a raise to give that'll get it for you.

She actually beat me to the punch there. I was surprised that she never even politely nudged me into accepting today, instead saying "you don't have to say anything now, take some time to discuss it with your family, and if you get back to me by Thursday, that'd be great."
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Email back asking specific questions about the compensation package then. Lets her know you're on the fence
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Good idea. I'll email her my general questions now and pop the negotiation question when she responds.
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@CaptainOfCrush

Here's an email I sent last Summer and got a few thousand bump in salary and extra week off within 30 minutes... I still wonder if I could've gotten more!

I know some of this won't apply to your situation, but maybe it will help serve as a template.

Hi [recruiter],

I hope you had a great weekend!

I am very excited about this opportunity with [company]! Based on my extensive experience with marketing, and internal [industry] knowledge, I am positive I'll be able to come in and make an immediate impact in the [job position] role. In fact, I plan on reaching out to friends with similar levels of experience and training, to see if they'd be interested in applying to join me in [city].

That being said, I am wondering if there is any wiggle room with the salary offer. I only ask because I am set to be promoted in September, to a comparable salary level, and in addition to that I am currently being paid hourly, which allows for regular overtime if desired. Please note, that I am very intrigued by the long term prospects that [company] can offer, as well as, the amount of personal and professional growth I expect to gain working with [company].

So, based on my current salary and nearly 5 years of relevant experience, I humbly request if any exception could be made in this instance that might bring the salary offer up to $$$. That would be the ideal number to meet my current financial goals, and would make me feel much more comfortable in making the job transition swiftly on August 7th.

As stated above, I am very enthusiastic about this opportunity, and about [company]. With my background and professional network in marketing, I am confident in the value I can contribute both to [company] and to [client]. I would definitely plan on staying on this career path long-term, so please let me know if this would be possible and we can tie-up any loose ends and get started!

Kind regards,
[ZL]
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Ngamer64 posted...

Personally I'd play conservative in your position and take the current offer, assuming everything else about the situation was golden (health benefits, retirement, vacation time, not too much overtime, etc).

Ng you sound just like my dad.

I shall take that as the ultimate compliment!


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Zenithian Legend posted...

Here's an email I sent last Summer and got a few thousand bump in salary and extra week off within 30 minutes... I still wonder if I could've gotten more!

Dude, thanks so much. I'll definitely format parts of my email after yours.
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MartinFF7 posted...

I know the fear of an offer being rescinded is there, but that really shouldn't happen if it's a company of any size or reputation. If we're talking a big-name firm here, it really shouldn't happen.

This. The worst that happens is they say no.
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