Current Events > Val Kilmer, Bourdain's suicide, "selfish"

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https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/val-kilmer-calls-anthony-bourdain-suicide-selfish-ve-152553734.html
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Kilmer's no stranger to being an ass. It was one of the reasons his career began to tank after his Batman stint. He was notorious for overreacting and being a primadonna towards movie crews.
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Suicide is extremely selfish.

Sorry, it is. It's the ultimate selfish move. What about his daughter, his family, his friends, his filming crew? All those people are broken because he took the quick way out.

"shut the fuck up" yeah okay I get it, it's disrespectful to say that, but it's entirely true. The dude was a genuinely good guy it seemed like, and it's fucking awful the world is deprived of that... oh hey, that's another reason it's selfish.

Should he have been forced to stay in the limelight? No, and maybe he was forced and this was his way out, which makes it all the more tragic. However, it's still a selfish act.
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I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

I don't even care that anger is one of the five stages of grief, morons that lack perspective saying shit like this are a massive part of the problem and it's too funny that they can't figure that out
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Honestly you can say suicide is selfish but also not demonize it.
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It technically is true. So what? That doesn't mean that one has to condemn the act or the person to admit that. People do selfish things all the time.
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ShutTheF---_Up posted...

I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

This
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MacadamianNut3 posted...

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

This

Right. Both are selfish
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The whole "suicide is selfish" thing is grotesque.

The last thing a suicidal person needs is shame on top of what they're already feeling, and it showcases how actually selfish other people are. People who likely haven't been in that state of mind before.
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Or just his career?
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There is always that one person...yes suicide can technically be viewed as a selfish action but fuck off with trying to attack anyone who does it. They were going through some serious shit to the point where they felt the need to end their own life. Stop worrying about everyone else and maybe worry about why he and others feel that way.
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Dr_Agon posted...

Or just his career?

Solid.

Then again, Kilmer may be dealing with his own demons. I hope he has people who can support him. Honestly, this kind of lashing out sounds like its own cry for help.
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It doesn't matter whether the people who kill themselves live to hear the words or not. Killing yourself hurts everyone whose life you were a part of. Now Bourdain's kids lost a parent and have a hole they'll never be able to fill as long as they live.

TheVipaGTS posted...

There is always that one person...yes suicide can technically be viewed as a selfish action but fuck off with trying to attack anyone who does it. They were going through some serious shit to the point where they felt the need to end their own life. Stop worrying about everyone else and maybe worry about why he and others feel that way.

This, all of this
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they were good friends so kilmer is in pain and people are not seeing that
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suicide is a very jagged thing. it haunts those left behind for the rest of their lives. so yea, in a way it is selfish.

Awesome posted...

they were good friends so kilmer is in pain and people are not seeing that

And guess what? That doesn't justify publicly demonizing the dude with no ounce of thought about what he might've been dealing with. That's something a pretty shitty "friend" would do.
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ShutTheF---_Up posted...

Awesome posted...

they were good friends so kilmer is in pain and people are not seeing that

And guess what? That doesn't justify publicly demonizing the dude with no ounce of thought about what he might've been dealing with. That's something a pretty shitty "friend" would do.

doesnt matter, just like how people with depression arent thinking right and are in pain and people cant empathize with that, thats the way val and a lot of people feel right now.
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Has it ever occurred to you that people are attacking Val because he's the one who isn't empathetic? Quit painting him like some kind of victim.
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Minute posted...

Suicide is extremely selfish.

Sorry, it is. It's the ultimate selfish move. What about his daughter, his family, his friends, his filming crew? All those people are broken because he took the quick way out.

"shut the fuck up" yeah okay I get it, it's disrespectful to say that, but it's entirely true. The dude was a genuinely good guy it seemed like, and it's fucking awful the world is deprived of that... oh hey, that's another reason it's selfish.

Should he have been forced to stay in the limelight? No, and maybe he was forced and this was his way out, which makes it all the more tragic. However, it's still a selfish act.

I'd say it's selfish when you have kids or you put yourself in a situation where others depend on you (like running a business) but otherwise not really.
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suicide can be selfish, but wanting people to continue living is selfish too
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Whats more selfish is not understanding a pain a suicidal person is in. To them death is preferential to anything else...and your first thought it to attack them and call them selfish?
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prince_leo posted...

but wanting people to continue living is selfish too

Not if it's for the sake of the people who love them. In fact that would seem to be quite the opposite of selfishness. You can't condone suicide as a practical solution to life's problems when it completely destroys everyone at the center of it.

prince_leo posted...

suicide can be selfish, but wanting people to continue living is selfish too

agreed

AlphaCuck posted...

prince_leo posted...

but wanting people to continue living is selfish too

Not if it's for the sake of the people who love them. In fact that would seem to be quite the opposite of selfishness. You can't condone suicide as a practical solution to life's problems when it completely destroys everyone at the center of it.

No one is condoning it, but attacking those who do it is just fucked up. You were going through some serious shit and saw death as your only option...but what about me?!...
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AlphaCuck posted...

prince_leo posted...

but wanting people to continue living is selfish too

Not if it's for the sake of the people who love them.

Which is no different from "Deal with your suffering because of ME". It's ridiculously selfish and it amuses me you can't perceive that

And nobody is condoning suicide. You can disagree with something while understanding the rationale behind it.
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ShutTheF---_Up posted...

Which is no different from "Deal with your suffering because of ME". It's ridiculously selfish and it amuses me you can't perceive that

Not that I agree with Val on this or anything

But that first sentence you wrote there is literally the definition of being a parent...at least in my almost 4 months experience of being a dad hah

its constant suffering..and its worse because its BECAUSE of them. Of course there is good to balance it out :)

but responsibility is hard...especially when another life depends on you so much. just some thoughts

TheVipaGTS posted...

AlphaCuck posted...

prince_leo posted...

but wanting people to continue living is selfish too

Not if it's for the sake of the people who love them. In fact that would seem to be quite the opposite of selfishness. You can't condone suicide as a practical solution to life's problems when it completely destroys everyone at the center of it.

No one is condoning it, but attacking those who do it is just fucked up. You were going through some serious shit and saw death as your only option...but what about me?!...

Listen to me. Killing yourself over emotional pain is always the wrong thing to do. Suggesting it's even understandable to do it is also a bad thing to do because it can give someone the notion that it's okay to take that way out. In reality the action is completely senseless. If your problems are worth dying over then they're worth seeking recourse for. If it comes in the form of professional help then that's great.

I happen to believe the best help comes from harshly honest communication with those you love. Imagine what Bourdain's family would have done if he had told them he had been feeling bad enough that he may kill himself at any time. They would have told him they would do anything to keep that from happening because the alternative is too horrible to entertain.

Instead he's dead and he presumably didn't get to try to take on his problems with the help of his family, when his chances were best. And his family is now (and possibly forever) feeling the way he felt when decided to kill himself. His poor kid is probably wondering what problem could possibly be so bad that it's worth leaving her behind for.

I know that all sounds coarse of me to say but it is the reality of the issue. I'll stress again that I believe saying it's an understandable thing to do is a bad response to the situation. Dying before your time is bad for many different reasons.

Your complete disconnection with mental health and suicidal thoughts (in addition to a dumb assumption that he "didn't try to get help") pretty much signifies you as a joke account on this subject.
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Psychological Disorders ! = emotional pain

What the hell?
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it is selfish

people are reacting to their thought of the person and not the act itself

if it had been trump, would anyone be blasting kilmer right now if he said the same things?

the act of suicide is selfish regardless of who it is. people just approach it differently depending on their personal bias of the person.
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Guerrilla Soldier posted...

if it had been trump, would anyone be blasting kilmer right now if he said the same things?

Yes.
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This is what I think of when people say you need to use "tough love" on suicidal people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTSzKj77Hw" data-time="

I'm not trying to make light of the situation, it's just so ridiculous.
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conversely, i think asking someone who is constantly miserable to stay alive because you want them around is selfish.
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https://imgur.com/ygpotrG
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"Suicide is selfish. What about my feelings?! Haven't you ever thought about me?"

And depression very often puts someone in a mental state where they view themselves as a burden to literally everyone around them. At my darkest, I thought that killing myself would be doing the world a favour because my friends wouldn't need to pretend to be nice to me, my parents wouldn't need to feed me, my sister would be able to get the full attention of my parents, my therapist would be able to spend time helping someone who was actually worth helping. When you're thinking like this, suicide can feel like the most selfless act in the world.
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ShutTheF---_Up posted...

Your complete disconnection with mental health and suicidal thoughts (in addition to a dumb assumption that he "didn't try to get help") pretty much signifies you as a joke account on this subject.

You act like suicide was Bourdain's only course of action. That says a lot about you I think.

Never said or even implied it was. It says a hell of a lot more about you that you think anyone who goes through with it "wasn't trying to get help".
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SGT_Conti posted...

"Suicide is selfish. What about my feelings?! Haven't you ever thought about me?"

And depression very often puts someone in a mental state where they view themselves as a burden to literally everyone around them. At my darkest, I thought that killing myself would be doing the world a favour because my friends wouldn't need to pretend to be nice to me, my parents wouldn't need to feed me, my sister would be able to get the full attention of my parents, my therapist would be able to spend time helping someone who was actually worth helping. When you're thinking like this, suicide can feel like the most selfless act in the world.

Hence my point that suicide is the wrong response. If you're low then you're already more likely to reason with the notion of taking your life. But as we've already established it is always the incorrect thing to do. Just because suicide may feel like a selfless thing to do doesn't mean it is. And that's why people need to be reminded every now and then that killing yourself is the worst possible outcome for everyone involved. Yes, even the victim.

Does anybody think Robin Williams was selfish? Did you read what his mental health did to him? You don't know somebody's true struggles. Sometimes they don't even know them.
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People who call suicide selfish are the lowest tiers of human existence. Not because they're wrong (depends on your point of view) but because there's literally no reason to make that statement other than being complete human dreg.

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

Never said or even implied it was. It says a hell of a lot more about you that you think anyone who goes through with it "wasn't trying to get help".

Whatever Bourdain's case, he clearly didn't communicate to his loved ones that his emotional state was bad enough that he could go through with it at any time. Which is a hard thing to do, so it's understandable. But I refuse to believe this couldn't have been prevented. Not putting the blame on him but that does mean saying "it's understandable" is not what people need to hear.

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

I don't even care that anger is one of the five stages of grief, morons that lack perspective saying shit like this are a massive part of the problem and it's too funny that they can't figure that out

Well said.
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He's not wrong, he had a very young daughter.

But god damn, the body's not even cold yet man. shut the fuck up
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As someone whos dad tried to commit suicide I dont know how to feel about this.

AlphaCuck posted...

SGT_Conti posted...

"Suicide is selfish. What about my feelings?! Haven't you ever thought about me?"

And depression very often puts someone in a mental state where they view themselves as a burden to literally everyone around them. At my darkest, I thought that killing myself would be doing the world a favour because my friends wouldn't need to pretend to be nice to me, my parents wouldn't need to feed me, my sister would be able to get the full attention of my parents, my therapist would be able to spend time helping someone who was actually worth helping. When you're thinking like this, suicide can feel like the most selfless act in the world.

Hence my point that suicide is the wrong response. If you're low then you're already more likely to reason with the notion of taking your life. But as we've already established it is always the incorrect thing to do. Just because suicide may feel like a selfless thing to do doesn't mean it is. And that's why people need to be reminded every now and then that killing yourself is the worst possible outcome for everyone involved. Yes, even the victim.

I agree there are better options besides suicide, but if you're talking to someone who is depressed, starting with "it's selfish" is probably going to do more harm than good.
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It is "selfish" in the sense that it is the ultimate act of doing something for yourself at the expense of those around you who depend on you.

Sometimes you gotta be selfish.
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what a dumbfuck response
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Minute posted...

Suicide is extremely selfish.

Sorry, it is. It's the ultimate selfish move. What about his daughter, his family, his friends, his filming crew? All those people are broken because he took the quick way out.

"shut the fuck up" yeah okay I get it, it's disrespectful to say that, but it's entirely true. The dude was a genuinely good guy it seemed like, and it's fucking awful the world is deprived of that... oh hey, that's another reason it's selfish.

Should he have been forced to stay in the limelight? No, and maybe he was forced and this was his way out, which makes it all the more tragic. However, it's still a selfish act.

It's almost like suicide is an irrational decision only made by people who are not in their right mind!
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ShutTheF---_Up posted...

AlphaCuck posted...

prince_leo posted...

but wanting people to continue living is selfish too

Not if it's for the sake of the people who love them.

Which is no different from "Deal with your suffering because of ME". It's ridiculously selfish and it amuses me you can't perceive that

And nobody is condoning suicide. You can disagree with something while understanding the rationale behind it.

He had a ten year old daughter man, that's an incredibly fucked up thing to do to a child, especially at that age.

I love Tony, been a huge fan for years and I don't want to judge, but this is fucked. Obviously, we don't really know what his relationship with his daughter and ex wife was like but this is just incredibly sad and my sympathies go 100% to that little girl
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