Current Events > Fallout 4 and MGSV are great games.

(+) Yeah! (+)

"the factions were bad"

"I have more complaints! The factions were bad!"

Erm... ok...
---

Darmik posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Ditto for James. I don't think a guy who brings in an NPC's voice actor has any ground for stating what the argument is.

What? James is the father of the Fallout 3 NPC. Of course he's more important.

The voice actor argument is to counter-point your argument that the family angle isn't important in Fallout 3. Of course it is.

Can't you kill Benny as soon as you find him anyway?

OEIO999 posted...

Because of the way Fallout NV is laid out you have to play as a Courier girl/boy who has to stay in NV to take care of its problem, a place you know barely anything about. Even though you just got shot and buried alive.

Take care of what problem? How?

You're already putting out a significantly more vague pitch.

I never denied your family angle, my argument was towards the voice actor having any relevance to this discussion. Being able to kill Benny doesn't deny his importance to the story, assuming you choose to follow that route. Which is similar to James.

Take care of what problem? How?

You're already putting out a significantly more vague pitch.

Have you played New Vegas? Or did you just forget everything in it? Which is understandable, the game is very forgettable.
---

OEIO999 posted...

I never denied your family angle, my argument was towards the voice actor having any prevalence to this discussion. Being able to kill Benny doesn't deny his importance to the story, assuming you choose to follow that route. Which is similar to James.

Well no it's not. Because you can't kill James whenever you want. He raises the Fallout 3 character. He's the main character in the game outside of your PC. Benny isn't.
---

UR topic
---

Nowhere does it state Jame is the main character outside the PC. Now "you're putting out a significantly more vague pitch." He establishes a goal for the PC to accomplish/chase, just like Benny. I don't think you remember Benny either or his role in the game.
---

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

People are way too harsh on them.

Yes.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah they have flaws, in both cases there is a lot of bad writing.

Yes.

UnfairRepresent posted...

But they are great games and great worlds to explore. Way better than New Vegas or MGS4

No.

---

OEIO999 posted...

Nowhere does it state Jame is the main character outside the PC. Now "you're putting out a significantly more vague pitch." He establishes a goal for the PC to accomplish/chase, just like Benny. I don't think you remember Benny either or his role in the game.

He has the single biggest role in the plot.

Benny is no where near that level.
---

Darmik posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Nowhere does it state Jame is the main character outside the PC. Now "you're putting out a significantly more vague pitch." He establishes a goal for the PC to accomplish/chase, just like Benny. I don't think you remember Benny either or his role in the game.

He has the single biggest role in the plot.

Benny is no where near that level.

Relative. James only shows up sparingly after the vault and in the game in general and dies just as hastily.
---

Darmik posted...

Yeah it sucks that you have to wait until faction quests to open up before betraying certain factions at times.

I sided with the Railroad and I remember thinking that if it was up to me I would handle stuff differently. But that option isn't available. I never felt like that with New Vegas. It felt like I had more agency.

Whereas I and the game designer agree, that there should've been a peaceful resolution between House and the NCR, the developers said they would've constructed that story line, so in essence NV is a flawed storyline. So you're in the dark with this matter.

And as such, NV can't be completed without killing, either House or the BoS.
---

I am willing to entertain an argument about MGS4 being better than V (except for gameplay). But FO4 being better than New Vegas, that is too bold a claim.
---

OEIO999 posted...

Relative. James only shows up sparingly after the vault and in the game in general and dies just as hastily.

And pushes the entire plot
---

Megaman50100 posted...

I am willing to entertain an argument about MGS4 being better than V (except for gameplay). But FO4 being better than New Vegas, that is too bold a claim.

Yeah, New Vegas is just undeniably the best of the new Fallouts
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Relative. James only shows up sparingly after the vault and in the game in general and dies just as hastily.

And pushes the entire plot

So does Bennys
---

DarthAragorn posted...

Megaman50100 posted...

I am willing to entertain an argument about MGS4 being better than V (except for gameplay). But FO4 being better than New Vegas, that is too bold a claim.

Yeah, New Vegas is just undeniably the best of the new Fallouts

According to the vocal minority alone, look at Metacritic, both user and critic, except for PC users, to establish which game is superior. Nevermind the GOTY awards.
---

OEIO999 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Relative. James only shows up sparingly after the vault and in the game in general and dies just as hastily.

And pushes the entire plot

So does Bennys

He really doesn't...

Starting to wonder if you have played either game
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

OEIO999 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Relative. James only shows up sparingly after the vault and in the game in general and dies just as hastily.

And pushes the entire plot

So does Bennys

He really doesn't...

Starting to wonder if you have played either game

He really does, admittedly its optional outside the opening, i don't really care if you played any game, your experience is irrelevant to me
---

Another thing F3 accomplishes that NV doesn't. You can finish Fallout 3 main quest without canonically killing anyone IIRC. In NV, to complete the main quest, your PC character has to kill either House or the BoS. But F3 always gets chastised for being a game where only killing is the only option, the original creator and Obsidian fanbois are truly peculiar specimens.
---

new vegas is objectively better than 3+4 and MGSV has spectacular gameplay but somehow managed to have a story worse than 4
---

OEIO999 posted...

According to the vocal minority alone, look at Metacritic, both user and critic, except for PC users, to establish which game is superior. Nevermind the GOTY awards.

Okay, I looked. Looks to me about a difference of ~3 points? And Fallout 3 scored higher than both of them. I'm not concerned with a small difference like that on a score aggregator (Much love to metacritic). Feel free to discuss what about FO4 is better than New Vegas besides the graphics, which of course are much better, or even just to make an argument for Fallout 4's character advancement overhaul which is absolutely my biggest disappointment in 4.
---

Megaman50100 posted...

OEIO999 posted...

According to the vocal minority alone, look at Metacritic, both user and critic, except for PC users, to establish which game is superior. Nevermind the GOTY awards.

Okay, I looked. Looks to me about a difference of ~3 points? And Fallout 3 scored higher than both of them. I'm not concerned with a small difference like that on a score aggregator (Much love to metacritic). Feel free to discuss what about FO4 is better than New Vegas besides the graphics, which of course are much better, or even just to make an argument for Fallout 4's character advancement overhaul which is absolutely my biggest disappointment in 4.

I was stating Fallout 3 is undeniably the best of the new Fallouts, not Fallout 4. I guess I should've been more specific, my apologies for the confusion.

I think its apparent how F3 is the best of the three, but as for what NV does better than F3 is more, more of everything F3 already had to offer.

Also iron sights, ammo types, more weapon and armour variety, better gun handling (I think), melee and unarmed fighting is improved and has more options than F3 IIRC, legendary enemies, more unique weapons, DT and weapon mods.

Basically, NV is a far greater shooter than F3 is and it deserves recognition for it. And come on, NV has Anti-material rifle and ranger seqoula, the weapon variety in that game was in-fucking-sane. Obsidian apparently researched their weapons (as much as it can be in a fictional sense), this is the one area I have always wanted Beth to develop themselves in.

As for what F4 does better than NV, that's an entire new conundrum to open and I may write it down later, just know F4 is more of a copy of NV, with its non-linear and faction pathways, than F3, which has linear faction pathway. And legendary enemies e.t.c.
---

OEIO999 posted...

Another thing F3 accomplishes that NV doesn't. You can finish Fallout 3 main quest without canonically killing anyone IIRC. In NV, to complete the main quest, your PC character has to kill either House or the BoS. But F3 always gets chastised for being a game where only killing is the only option, the original creator and Obsidian fanbois are truly peculiar specimens.

that's just false

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Completing_Fallout_without_killing_anyone
---

DarthAragorn posted...

OEIO999 posted...

Another thing F3 accomplishes that NV doesn't. You can finish Fallout 3 main quest without canonically killing anyone IIRC. In NV, to complete the main quest, your PC character has to kill either House or the BoS. But F3 always gets chastised for being a game where only killing is the only option, the original creator and Obsidian fanbois are truly peculiar specimens.

that's just false

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Completing_Fallout_without_killing_anyone

I can't open wiki, proxy blocked.
---

I haven't played Fallout 4 yet. I'm waiting to play out after I finish New Vegas, but if it's anything like New Vegas then it should be great because New Vegas is one of the best games ever made

Fallout 4 you had to put to the hardest setting to even remotely get a challenge.
---

OEIO999 posted...

I was stating Fallout 3 is undeniably the best of the new Fallouts, not Fallout 4. I guess I should've been more specific, my apologies for the confusion.

Ah, not a problem. I personally don't really hold either FO3 or NV over each other because they are so similar to one another outside of a few key distinctions. FO4 watering down the RPG elements really hurt me.
---

Megaman50100 posted...

Feel free to discuss what about FO4 is better than New Vegas besides the graphics,

Plenty.

For Starters the sheer size. The world is bigger with a lot more inside it to find and explore, full of side stories, jokes and random events to find.
As well as being bigger it's more populated, the sheer amount of dialogue is huge. From lore to Jokes to just world building. So many NPCs refer to things you have done or reference other characters.
The land itself is less flat and more full of variations in terrain which is not just fun to explore but also more fun for fighting and sneaking.
You have a cast of support characters who are actually interesting with their own quests, quirks and comments. As opposed to the handful in NV who are 1 Dimensional. They also can't die unless you kill them so they are actually helpful and not just escorts you stick to your leg.
While all Bethesda games are glitchy NV was faaaaaaaaaaar worse than 4 for bugs, glitches and fuck ups.

There is more vareity in weapons, actual use for all the Junk you find everywhere as well as NPCs you rescue and the ability to become a Raider Leader and literally take over the map. Combat itself is much more fun, the change to VATs to slow time rather than freeze it and the improvement to shooting by the hip without VATs really balances out 2 ways to play rather than 3 and NV's system where there was never any reason to not use VATs at any point ever.

Something like this couldn't happen in 3 or NV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXvciKOS8hQ" data-time="

And on top of that it's FULL of great little gameplay improvements they have learned. For example being able to loot things/talk to people by simply looking at them without having to click to open them one by one every step. Not to mention the ability to leave conversations just literally by walking off because you were bored. As well as the lack of weapon/armor degredation for every fucking thing. Lack of ability to target stealthed enemies with Vats (thus defeating the entire point) or The inability to just wait whereever you are, requiring you to find a seat or a bed if you want to wait. It's just got smarter gameplay design all round. They've learned shit.

Also the change to Power Armor is interesting. Not my cup of tea as I found the sheer fact Power Armor slowed you down so much in 4 made it not fun to lose but it is a good trade-off to enjoy basically being invincable but slow vs vunrable yet fast.

And as weak as the writing was in some places in 4, there was nothing as dumb as the Leigon of just "We're evil because.... shut up we're evil" at least the factions in 4 had motivations and explanations and wants and desires, even if badly written.

Not to menion 4 was a whole new game with a whole new style.

NV was just "Heres Fallout 3 again but worse lul" and instantly loses points for it

And that's just off the top of my head. Your bias is because 4 is new and you were a kid when you played NV 8 years ago

Edit: This also isn't completely fair as it's only relevant for console users. But also Fallout 4 on Console has mods. Something NV on console does not.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

NV was just "Heres Fallout 3 again but worse lul" and instantly loses points for it

joke account
---

southcoast09 posted...

Fallout 4 you had to put to the hardest setting to even remotely get a challenge.

But at least it gave you incentive to play the game on harder difficulties, with legendaries having greater drop rate with increased difficulty. That setup is something ALL games should employ. Give us an incentive for playing on harder difficulties, rather than just the challenge. Remember back in the days when developers would give rewards for completing things on harder difficulty? Like a new character or a gun.
---

I thought 4 was the best Fallout while playing it but after the hype wore off I realized it was fun but not the best
---

I_Stay_Noided posted...

MGSV has spectacular gameplay

The actual mechanics are good. But the gameplay is boring and repetitive as fuck in a boring, emtpy, open world.
---

I had forgotten about Fallout 4's terrible loot system until I read this thread. Another aspect of the game that sucked. I called it Skyrim with guns, but Skyrim at least had some fun unique gear. In F4 you just farm the same boring gear until you find something with the prefix you want. It's like Diablo except even was a better RPG than F4.
---

And the story of Fallout 4 is soooo dumb. The game forces you to sign up for some kind of underground bunker, which is right down the street from your house btw (not contrived at all), then 10 minutes later nuclear war breaks out. You know I should have quit playing there, but I trudged the entire game. The first ten minutes of Fallout 4 is a great example of how dumb and forced the rest of the story is.
---

People are not too harsh on F4

People have a right to feel upset about how MGSV turned out plot wise
---

sobergermanguy posted...

And the story of Fallout 4 is soooo dumb. The game forces you to sign up for some kind of underground bunker, which is right down the street from your house btw (not contrived at all), then 10 minutes later nuclear war breaks out. You know I should have quit playing there, but I trudged the entire game. The first ten minutes of Fallout 4 is a great example of how dumb and forced the rest of the story is.

Erm, it's really not that contrived if you follow the plot.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

sobergermanguy posted...

And the story of Fallout 4 is soooo dumb. The game forces you to sign up for some kind of underground bunker, which is right down the street from your house btw (not contrived at all), then 10 minutes later nuclear war breaks out. You know I should have quit playing there, but I trudged the entire game. The first ten minutes of Fallout 4 is a great example of how dumb and forced the rest of the story is.

Erm, it's really not that contrived if you follow the plot.

When stuff happens like this in games I just think "oh, thank god I didn't have to do some boring task to simulate time passing" cause I still know how to use my imagination and not just be like "oh that's dumb it doesn't simulate reality 100%". But some people need the whole 3 months later black screen to sleep at night I guess.
---

I don't know why Bethesda keeps trying to use family members as the hook for the main plot in their Fallout games. It's not really needed and this sort of stuff fits better for RPG's that use an established protagonist which doesn't really fit Bethesda games.
---

Lost_All_Senses posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

sobergermanguy posted...

And the story of Fallout 4 is soooo dumb. The game forces you to sign up for some kind of underground bunker, which is right down the street from your house btw (not contrived at all), then 10 minutes later nuclear war breaks out. You know I should have quit playing there, but I trudged the entire game. The first ten minutes of Fallout 4 is a great example of how dumb and forced the rest of the story is.

Erm, it's really not that contrived if you follow the plot.

When stuff happens like this in games I just think "oh, thank god I didn't have to do some boring task to simulate time passing" cause I still know how to use my imagination and not just be like "oh that's dumb it doesn't simulate reality 100%". But some people need the whole 3 months later black screen to sleep at night I guess.

No actually I l'd prefer they didn't force a family on you at all....but if they're going to make the protag a wife/husband and parent, they should at least give you a reason to care about avenging your murdered spouse and missing son. Like most people, I didn't care about looking for Shaun even though the entire first half of the story revolves around finding him.

I'm supposed to be urgently looking for any scrap of information about my missing son, but here I am killing ten molerats for nameless npcs or scavenging junk to build tables with because the intro was so poorly done I felt no attachment towards Shaun
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

sobergermanguy posted...

And the story of Fallout 4 is soooo dumb. The game forces you to sign up for some kind of underground bunker, which is right down the street from your house btw (not contrived at all), then 10 minutes later nuclear war breaks out. You know I should have quit playing there, but I trudged the entire game. The first ten minutes of Fallout 4 is a great example of how dumb and forced the rest of the story is.

Erm, it's really not that contrived if you follow the plot.

Following the plot makes the games huge twist about the Institute seem even more contrived
---

sobergermanguy posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

sobergermanguy posted...

And the story of Fallout 4 is soooo dumb. The game forces you to sign up for some kind of underground bunker, which is right down the street from your house btw (not contrived at all), then 10 minutes later nuclear war breaks out. You know I should have quit playing there, but I trudged the entire game. The first ten minutes of Fallout 4 is a great example of how dumb and forced the rest of the story is.

Erm, it's really not that contrived if you follow the plot.

Following the plot makes the games huge twist about the Institute seem even more contrived

Yes
---

Darmik posted...

I don't know why Bethesda keeps trying to use family members as the hook for the main plot in their Fallout games. It's not really needed and this sort of stuff fits better for RPG's that use an established protagonist which doesn't really fit Bethesda games.

Although I enjoyed this aspect of Fallout 4 better than most (and far better than Fallout 3), I agree. At least that hasn't bled into ES territory...yet. To my knowledge the farthest they've gone with this is a quick line in Dawnguard where Serana asks you about your parents, and you have several response options that can allow you to give your character a touch of personal flavor. I think even contemporary Beth knows that they have a classic starting point with the 'nameless prisoner' intro, and are smart enough to not risk throwing that out.
---

Agreed with MGSV. Don't know about Fallout 4 though, never played it.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

Something like this couldn't happen in 3 or NV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXvciKOS8hQ" data-time="

which is good, because VATS blows and those hitboxes are awful
---