Current Events > Communism is not the government seizing the means of production. That is fascism

(+) Yeah! (+)

Communism is the means of production being seized by the proletariat.

The ideal government in a communist situation should intervene only to prevent the means being seized by the bourgeoisie, not to control the production themselves.

Incentives to work hard and do a good job still exist in a communist system because you will actually make more money if your enterprise does a better job than the competition as the profits are passed on to the proletariat.

The USSR's interpretation of communism is about as communist as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democratic Republic.
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The fascists actually undertook huge amounts of privatization
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right cause the proles are going to hold their hands and sing kumbaya and there will be paradise on earth after the military has overthrown the government and seized "the means of production" and magically just distribute to "the proles"

right "the people" are going to work hard and do a good job knowing that all their hard work is going to go to "the proles", totally
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Intro2Logic posted...

The fascists actually undertook huge amounts of privatization

Nope.
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Yes, the old "but REAL communism has never been tried!!" excuse for why it's failed 100% of the time it's been tried.
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darkjedilink posted...

Intro2Logic posted...

The fascists actually undertook huge amounts of privatization

Nope.

He's right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism

Fascist governments in both Italy and Germany privatized state-owned enterprises at certain times.[33][34][35] These privatizations were carried out in the early stages of both regimes (19221925 for Italy and 19341937 for Germany) and represented a reversal of the policies of the democratic governments which had preceded them. The democratic governments had brought a number of industries under state ownership and the fascists decided to return them to private ownership.[36] In doing so, they went against the mainstream economic trends of their time, when most Western governments were increasing state ownership.[37][38] Fascist privatization policies were driven by a desire to secure the support of wealthy industrialists as well as by the need to increase government revenues in order to balance budgets.[39][40] Significantly, fascist governments were among the first to undertake large-scale privatizations in modern times

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FreshSushi posted...

right cause the proles are going to hold their hands and sing kumbaya after they've overthrown the government

right the people are going to work hard and do a good job knowing that all their hard work is going to go to "the proles"

There is still a government. You don't just not have a government if you're communist, but the industry and commerce is run by the proletariat.

And yes people will work hard because people are the proletariat. So the money that goes to the proles goes to them.

The only people who are not proletariat is the political class.
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No, it is Bolshevism or Leninism or however you wish to label it. It is strongly based on communism, and has nothing at all to do with Fascism other than that they both trend authoritarian.
Authoritarianism is that extra-special ingredient that ruins everything.

Intro2Logic posted...

The fascists actually undertook huge amounts of privatization

Just like with Communism there's how it is on paper in theory and then how it's been in practice.
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FreshSushi posted...

right cause the proles are going to hold their hands and sing kumbaya and there will be paradise on earth after the military has overthrown the government and seized "the means of production" and magically just distribute to "the proles"

right "the people" are going to work hard and do a good job knowing that all their hard work is going to go to "the proles", totally

It's crazy how many people say this but turn around and try to convince others that less regulation will result in altruism or that trickle down tax cuts will really work.
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Ever heard of vanguard in communism? That is where it breaks down.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-awkYhtey50" data-time="
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Problem with this idea is that just because you don't end up with your definition of "true communism" doesn't mean that isn't exactly what they were attempting. Fact is that "true communism" is a fairy tale, a myth, and stalinism/maoisism/Kim jongism is what you get Everytime "true communism" is attempted.
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nicklebro posted...

Problem with this idea is that just because you don't end up with your definition of "true communism" doesn't mean that isn't exactly what they were attempting. Fact is that "true communism" is a fairy tale, a myth, and stalinism/maoisism/Kim jongism is what you get Everytime "true communism" is attempted.

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Zeeak4444 posted...

FreshSushi posted...

right cause the proles are going to hold their hands and sing kumbaya and there will be paradise on earth after the military has overthrown the government and seized "the means of production" and magically just distribute to "the proles"

right "the people" are going to work hard and do a good job knowing that all their hard work is going to go to "the proles", totally

It's crazy how many people say this but turn around and try to convince others that less regulation will result in altruism or that trickle down tax cuts will really work.

you talking about me, because i hate conservatism
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CrimsonRage posted...

Intro2Logic posted...

The fascists actually undertook huge amounts of privatization

yup. fascism tends to be very privitisation-friendly.

hence all those fascist dictators installed in latin america by the us government,

You think we install dictators to spread capitalism?

We do it to take advantage of their totalitarianism. If anything, capitalist privatization would be counterintuitive to American goals in these instances.
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darkjedilink posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

Intro2Logic posted...

The fascists actually undertook huge amounts of privatization

yup. fascism tends to be very privitisation-friendly.

hence all those fascist dictators installed in latin america by the us government,

You think we install dictators to spread capitalism?

We do it to take advantage of their totalitarianism. If anything, capitalist privatization would be counterintuitive to American goals in these instances.

Man have you heard of Pinochet?
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About 99% of people on this earth don't actually seem to know what fascism is. People think oh "oh you disagreed with my left wing views? You must be be a fascist of course!!!."

Fascism isn't even about racism. Nazis were yes. But Fascism at it's core is not about racism.
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FreshSushi posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

FreshSushi posted...

right cause the proles are going to hold their hands and sing kumbaya and there will be paradise on earth after the military has overthrown the government and seized "the means of production" and magically just distribute to "the proles"

right "the people" are going to work hard and do a good job knowing that all their hard work is going to go to "the proles", totally

It's crazy how many people say this but turn around and try to convince others that less regulation will result in altruism or that trickle down tax cuts will really work.

you talking about me, because i hate conservatism

Just in general. I was referring to addy, darkjedilink, and the like more than anything.

I don't recall your username so I wasn't trying to take a jab at your personally or anything.
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FreshSushi posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

FreshSushi posted...

right cause the proles are going to hold their hands and sing kumbaya and there will be paradise on earth after the military has overthrown the government and seized "the means of production" and magically just distribute to "the proles"

right "the people" are going to work hard and do a good job knowing that all their hard work is going to go to "the proles", totally

It's crazy how many people say this but turn around and try to convince others that less regulation will result in altruism or that trickle down tax cuts will really work.

you talking about me, because i hate conservatism

But you seem to love some, uh, "unorthodox" extra-curricular activities:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/76523094
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But if the proletariat are the government...

JordanPeterson posted...

FreshSushi posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

FreshSushi posted...

right cause the proles are going to hold their hands and sing kumbaya and there will be paradise on earth after the military has overthrown the government and seized "the means of production" and magically just distribute to "the proles"

right "the people" are going to work hard and do a good job knowing that all their hard work is going to go to "the proles", totally

It's crazy how many people say this but turn around and try to convince others that less regulation will result in altruism or that trickle down tax cuts will really work.

you talking about me, because i hate conservatism

But you seem to love some, uh, "unorthodox" extra-curricular activities:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/76523094

The post is gone but the memory remains
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tagged TC as Communist

George knew that the proles were the key to the revolution
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antfair posted...

Pinochet

Doesn't counter my post in any way. All those coups that the US backed were solely to force the government to give the US their natural resources on very US-friendly deals. It had nothing to do with communism or capitalism. The nature of the deals in place to support those coups is actually detrimental to the basis of capitalism.
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Fascism is a form of socialism though.
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antfair posted...

darkjedilink posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

Intro2Logic posted...

The fascists actually undertook huge amounts of privatization

yup. fascism tends to be very privitisation-friendly.

hence all those fascist dictators installed in latin america by the us government,

You think we install dictators to spread capitalism?

We do it to take advantage of their totalitarianism. If anything, capitalist privatization would be counterintuitive to American goals in these instances.

Man have you heard of Pinochet?

Don't bother. I've tried to prove this point before by listing direct policies, quotes, and evidence from all different types of fascist regimes about privatizing, and it just gets ignored and disregarded. History is littered with examples of it happening, but because it's usually used in the "Socialism/Communism is actually Fascism", the argument falls on deaf ears.
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UncleBourbon33 posted...

Fascism is a form of socialism though.

Which is why Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, Pinochet, etc. nationalized the economy, rather than enriching pre-existing economic elites in order to consolidate their power, am I right?
I would be right, in opposite world.