Current Events > It really needs to be said - the school shooting victims are being used

(+) Yeah! (+)

Thatuser posted...

Teens think they know everything but are very impressionable. They are being told that their lives are in danger and the sky is falling by many adults so they react defensively. What somebody really needs to entrain in them is they will all die regardless. Could be an illness, an accident, or yes, a violent homicide. The third option is the least likely, but death is the equalizer.

It's not like they experienced something, like, say, a school shooting, that may have influenced them in this regard?

Funkydog posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Because they are completely different things with completely different goals.

How are they?

They are both ultimately rules that say what people have the right to do inherently. Now, the bill of rights (I think that's it in America?) might be the one with a better truth at its core, but we should still be willing to look at it.

The outright refusal to think that someone several hundred years ago could be wrong is scary as fuck and is the exact mindset religious fanatics use and how they spread their hate. Obviously the bill of rights doesn't do that or spread any hate, but it is ultimately the same mindset.

And I will repeat it again, just in case... I'm not saying the rights to own a gun or free speech etc should be changed. But we should be open to the consideration of change, even if we ultimately don't and accept that they are indeed good things to have. And we should be allowed to have means to defend ourselves and speak without fear of punishment from the government.

Don't buy into everything you see in the media. There are not enough Americans that favor getting rid of the 2nd Amendment to warrant an attempt to do so. Ammendments certainly can be changed, or overruled. Prohibition is an example of this.

Are you sure that it's not the fact that there has been around 18 school shooting this year so far?
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ElatedVenusaur posted...

Thatuser posted...

Teens think they know everything but are very impressionable. They are being told that their lives are in danger and the sky is falling by many adults so they react defensively. What somebody really needs to entrain in them is they will all die regardless. Could be an illness, an accident, or yes, a violent homicide. The third option is the least likely, but death is the equalizer.

It's not like they experienced something, like, say, a school shooting, that may have influenced them in this regard?

has anyone close to you ever died in a school shooting? How about natural causes? Illness? A terrible accident? They are absolutely being influenced by the slim chance a school shooting may occur. To the point they're willing to hand over their rights.

Thatuser posted...

Don't buy into everything you see in the media. There are not enough Americans that favor getting rid of the 2nd Amendment to warrant an attempt to do so. Ammendments certainly can be changed, or overruled. Prohibition is an example of this.

I wasn't saying it should be gotten rid of, quite the opposite if you read what I said. I just think people should be willing to just look at it is all, as refusal to do so is incredibly scary if you apply it to something dangerous instead of a right. I do concede that even that is likely impossible in America with the fanatical stance people take on it.
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EbonTitanium posted...

Are you sure that it's not the fact that there has been around 18 school shooting this year so far?

That number, back when it surfaced, was shown to include a man committing suicide outside of a school that had been closed. Another example of the media skewing statistics to suit their point of view. Unless you consider that instance a school shooting.

@foreveraIone posted...

lol remember that kid whose dad made him smear CNN.

party of projection.

Was this the kid who claimed he wanted to ask the stupid ass question "why don't we use armed veterans to protect schools?"

Did it really come out that his dad told him to say that?
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Funkydog posted...

Thatuser posted...

Don't buy into everything you see in the media. There are not enough Americans that favor getting rid of the 2nd Amendment to warrant an attempt to do so. Ammendments certainly can be changed, or overruled. Prohibition is an example of this.

I wasn't saying it should be gotten rid of, quite the opposite if you read what I said. I just think people should be willing to just look at it is all, as refusal to do so is incredibly scary if you apply it to something dangerous instead of a right. I do concede that even that is likely impossible in America with the fanatical stance people take on it.

I'm just fine with it. A lot of Americans are. That's my point. I don't want anything done to it.

Thatuser posted...

I'm just fine with it. A lot of Americans are. That's my point. I don't want anything done to it.

...Again, I'm not saying anything should be done with it. Are you even reading what I'm saying?

All I am saying is that you should be willing to look at it. Even if it is just to say "Yes, this is still good. Let's keep it as it is. And here is why, and why your reasons for changing it is bad" Many seem unwilling to even do that, and if you apply such thinking here, what about when it is with something nefarious others say is just as undeniably true? That you are willing to let the thought be contested and show it is still undeniable shows more support for it I feel at least.
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EbonTitanium posted...

Are you sure that it's not the fact that there has been around 18 school shooting this year so far?

All school shootings are clearly fake by the same secret group that uses these victims.
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Funkydog posted...

Thatuser posted...

I'm just fine with it. A lot of Americans are. That's my point. I don't want anything done to it.

...Again, I'm not saying anything should be done with it. Are you even reading what I'm saying?

All I am saying is that you should be willing to look at it. Even if it is just to say "Yes, this is still good. Let's keep it as it is. And here is why, and why your reasons for changing it is bad" Many seem unwilling to even do that, and if you apply such thinking here, what about when it is with something nefarious others say is just as undeniably true? That you are willing to let the thought be contested and show it is still undeniable shows more support for it I feel at least.

I'm an American and you are not. I look at it and am completely fine with it. You say "it needs to be looked at" what does that even mean outside of the manner I just said? We have looked at it. We still want it. Otherwise, there would be a constitutional convention.

some of the are using themselves
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Foppe posted...

EbonTitanium posted...

Are you sure that it's not the fact that there has been around 18 school shooting this year so far?

All school shootings are clearly fake by the same secret group that uses these victims.

in case you missed it

Thatuser posted...

That number, back when it surfaced, was shown to include a man committing suicide outside of a school that had been closed. Another example of the media skewing statistics to suit their point of view. Unless you consider that instance a school shooting.

KronoCloud posted...

50Blessings posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

50Blessings posted...

They never show the ones for the second amendment

why would high school children want guns*

*besides to shoot up schools

Real mature

Its a fucking fact. Teenagers arent legally allowed to possess guns

So because someone can't yet do something, they can't believe in it? I guess none of them support the right to vote
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The Admiral posted...

Caution999 posted...

They certainly are being used to push a narrative - not a question in my mind.

Now I dont have all th answers, and if somehow, that narrative is the right way to go about this, and 100 years from now I look like an idiot - so be it.

I personally believe its exploitation after a rather life changing event for these kids. They just survived a life or death situation - they need therapy not a friggin microphone.

Kids are absolutely being used. The left is happy to give them the media attention they crave in exchange for the ability to use them as puppets to push their longstanding anti-gun policies.

Don't forget that they can use them as a ratings grab too
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Thatuser posted...

I'm an American and you are not. I look at it and am completely fine with it. You say "it needs to be looked at" what does that even mean outside of the manner I just said? We have looked at it. We still want it. Otherwise, there would be a constitutional convention.

All I'm suggesting is people really be willing to talk about gun reform I guess. Many just refuse and point to the 2nd amendment which I think is a poor response in the end. Can do both, if both sides are willing to actually talk to another and not just demonise the other side (small a chance of that happening as there is)
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Thatuser posted...

Foppe posted...

EbonTitanium posted...

Are you sure that it's not the fact that there has been around 18 school shooting this year so far?

All school shootings are clearly fake by the same secret group that uses these victims.

in case you missed it

Thatuser posted...

That number, back when it surfaced, was shown to include a man committing suicide outside of a school that had been closed. Another example of the media skewing statistics to suit their point of view. Unless you consider that instance a school shooting.

He faked his suicide.
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KronoCloud posted...

You honestly think that mass of teenagers marching yesterday was some sort conspiracy???

Where is any fucking proof of this!?!?

Another lazy piece of shit who has no perception of how humans feel spouting conspiracy theory bullshit.

Edit: just wanted to emphasise that TC is an idiot.

Who was funding those marches?
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Funkydog posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

First off the Bill of Rights has never been amended itself. The Constitution is what you're thinking of, and the Bill of Rights are the first 10 amendments to it.

Second, the major purpose of the Bill of Rights was to make sure people had in writing the protection of their most basic rights. There's a reason speech and expression is #1 and right after it is the right to bear arms.

I mean, we shouldn't hold centuries old documents as infallible. That is incredibly dangerous and people cite things like the Muslim faith for not changing with the times like the Christian one has slowly. Why should this be any different?

Of course, it doesn't mean you should change/remove rights but one should at least be open to consideration that the times now are different to ones hundred of years ago and you can't apply the same standards.

Save some tin foil for the rest of us
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Conservatives are completely disgracing themselves when it comes to these kids. Calling them crisis actors, psycho lesbians, fame hounds, bringing up their dead classmates etc etc. But the most insulting thing is denying the agency of these people and insisting that people who experienced school shootings and the fear of school shootings couldn't possibly want less guns around on their own.

These hysterical attempts to insult and discredit these survivors and other protesters must come from a fundamental fear that they will be effective. And even if no gun control is passed, I don't think young people will forget the open disdain shown towards them since this all started.
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Funkydog posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

The Bill of Rights is considered sacred for a reason. If you're OK with losing your right to bear arms, you can't turn around and say it's illegal to repeal any of the other amendments you deem important.

I mean, I live in a country where guns are banned so not something I can lose anyway at this point.

And that doesn't really address my point. I'm not saying you should change it in America, just that if you refuse to consider a document written several hundred years ago isn't infallible, then you can't criticise others who hold far out of date documents sacred. We should criticise and be willing to reassess ALL documents not written in our current time.

And again, just because we look back at them, doesn't mean we have to remove or change them. But the refusal to change and/or adapt is how you get religions pushing their shitty and outdated ideals/rules and using it as a means to oppress others.

Maybe we should get rid of the freedom of speech. Or how about all of the amendments since the document is old and fallible.

Funkydog posted...

Thatuser posted...

I'm an American and you are not. I look at it and am completely fine with it. You say "it needs to be looked at" what does that even mean outside of the manner I just said? We have looked at it. We still want it. Otherwise, there would be a constitutional convention.

All I'm suggesting is people really be willing to talk about gun reform I guess. Many just refuse and point to the 2nd amendment which I think is a poor response in the end. Can do both, if both sides are willing to actually talk to another and not just demonise the other side (small a chance of that happening as there is)

Ok, lets talk about it. I like the second as it stands and don't want my rights infringed. Satisfied? Its a poor response if its not what you'd like, basically,

muchdran posted...

Everyone knows it, Nobody wants to admit it.

"Everyone" in this scenario being the Republican party and the NRA who can't grasp the concept of people being against things unless a conspiracy is involved.
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foreveraIone posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Find me 80,000 teenagers that can organize anything other than a house party (if you can even call that organizing)

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REMercsChamp posted...

foreveraIone posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Find me 80,000 teenagers that can organize anything other than a house party (if you can even call that organizing)

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I adore the theyre being told theyre in danger by adults pushing a narrative angle

Newsflash: theyre being told theyre in danger by the deranged gunmen who annihilate their peers once or twice a month

Agree or disagree with their proposed solutions, these kids dont need anyone to tell them to be afraid and angry.
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halomonkey1_3_5 posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

who is behind this

chill, you listen too to much alex jones
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Thatuser posted...

Ok, lets talk about it. I like the second as it stands and don't want my rights infringed. Satisfied? Its a poor response if its not what you'd like, basically,

I am, yes. That is all I was asking for. All I'd ask is that you then be willing to work on the issue to try and solve the issue America has with gun violence while not going so heavy handed as places like Britain did in combating it. Of course, not a requirement for you to do so. There is also the consideration of what you would consider "infringement on your rights" in trying to do something about the issue (however you see it, or don't see it)

silentwing26x posted...

Maybe we should get rid of the freedom of speech. Or how about all of the amendments since the document is old and fallible.

I repeatedly said I don't think either amendments should be removed, but we should speak about them at least. I most certainly don't want other countries to get to the state my own with free speech is in (UK) and it has got this way by people not talking about laws and just accepting things as they were because it was considered that "hate speech" is not an inalienable right.

FrisbeeDude posted...

Save some tin foil for the rest of us

What tin foil? I am just making a comparison of how the thinking can be used for nefarious means. Not that I think it will be in this particular case for America.
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EbonTitanium posted...

Are you sure that it's not the fact that there has been around 18 school shooting this year so far?

Literally not a fact.
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RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Second, the major purpose of the Bill of Rights was to make sure people had in writing the protection of their most basic rights

(Except for black people and women)
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gadgaurd posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Second, the major purpose of the Bill of Rights was to make sure people had in writing the protection of their most basic rights

(Except for black people and women)

The Bill of Rights/Amendments is actually the document that gives blacks and women their rights that were originally limited in the Constitution, so wrong again.
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

why would high school children want guns*

*besides to shoot up schools

Implying that anyone that doesn't support your point is a secret school shooter.

Do you feel no shame?

They don't, that's why they target kids for their propaganda.
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Funkydog posted...

I repeatedly said I don't think either amendments should be removed, but we should speak about them at least. I most certainly don't want other countries to get to the state my own with free speech is in (UK) and it has got this way by people not talking about laws and just accepting things as they were because it was considered that "hate speech" is not an inalienable right.

Let's talk about removing all amendments since they're from old fallible documents.

Also have fun when the UK turns into a complete police state. The biggest reason they're so brazen in their movements against free speech and privacy is because they know there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

somebody needs to tell that strange looking shaved head girl

get help ... just get help
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The Admiral posted...

gadgaurd posted...

RoboLaserGandhi posted...

Second, the major purpose of the Bill of Rights was to make sure people had in writing the protection of their most basic rights

(Except for black people and women)

The Bill of Rights/Amendments is actually the document that gives blacks and women their rights that were originally limited in the Constitution, so wrong again.

I was about to say, the BoR was used as a legal argument FOR emancipation and suffrage.
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ClunkerSlim posted...

Those High Schoolers are being manipulated into not wanting to die in a hail of bullets! When will they wise up!

Rhetoric like this is a big part of the problem.

School children are more likely to die on the bus in an accident than a school shooting.
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darkjedilink posted...

ClunkerSlim posted...

Those High Schoolers are being manipulated into not wanting to die in a hail of bullets! When will they wise up!

Rhetoric like this is a big part of the problem.

School children are more likely to die on the bus in an accident than a school shooting.

It's pretty unlikely for any american to die in a terrorist attack and yes we spend trillions on that. People care about big, rare, deadly risks.
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Of course they are. Also no one addresses how these kids' opinions really don't matter. Just because you survived something doesn't give you extra knowledge or expertise in the situation (guns in this case). They're just kids with an opinion that ultimately doesn't matter.

And that's not even mentioning that gun control had nothing to do with this. It was a failure of the FBI and the police several times over.
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pegusus123456 posted...

Used in what way? They're high schoolers, they're old enough to mostly know what they want to do. It's not like CNN is sticking a microphone in front of a Sandy Hook survivor.

Uh what? You ever spoke to a teenager? They barely know what they want for breakfast, let alone what they want to do about Gun Control.
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Knowledge_King posted...

Also no one addresses how these kids' opinions really don't matter.

Why doesn't it?

Why does yours matter and theirs does not? In fact if they survived a school shooting I imagine they have much more intimate knowledge than you do on the dangers of guns.
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Iwin2013 posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Used in what way? They're high schoolers, they're old enough to mostly know what they want to do. It's not like CNN is sticking a microphone in front of a Sandy Hook survivor.

Uh what? You ever spoke to a teenager? They barely know what they want for breakfast, let alone what they want to do about Gun Control.

They're too stupid to not want to be shot and die? That the hill you're going to stage your battle on?
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Is it just me, or is it usually conservatives who are the ones buying into conspiracy theories?

Option A: these kids heard and saw their classmates/friends murdered, and have taken it upon themselves to try and pressure our government to pass some more stringent firearms restrictions

OR

Option B: these kids are being manipulated by the Liberal Deep State in an effort to destroy the Second Amendment and confiscate everyone's guns so that the Atheist Communist Socialists Union will have an easier time taking over the country.
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ClunkerSlim posted...

Those High Schoolers are being manipulated into not wanting to die in a hail of bullets! When will they wise up!

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DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC posted...

Is it just me, or is it usually conservatives who are the ones buying into conspiracy theories?

It's because reality tends to not match with what they've already decided is true. So when your beliefs are challenged just claim everything is a conspiracy theory and you're still right.
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DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC posted...

Is it just me, or is it usually conservatives who are the ones buying into conspiracy theories?

Yes. From birthism, to deep state to crisis actors
Like, liberals may fall for conspiracies as well. But conservatism sort of depends on it
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JustMonika posted...

DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC posted...

Is it just me, or is it usually conservatives who are the ones buying into conspiracy theories?

It's because reality tends to not match with what they've already decided is true. So when your beliefs are challenged just claim everything is a conspiracy theory and you're still right.

Fair point. ^_^

I literally made my mom sit down and watch Shepard Smith's explanation of the Uranium One deal, and her only comment was "Well, that's not what Sean Hannity said."
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