Current Events > Why do Republicans think arming teachers will keep schools safer?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?
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Because reacting is easier than acting.
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LIsJustice posted...

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?

Probably a lot less than an actual school shooting. Which is really, really tiny.

I don't think that has a high chance of happening.

What arming the teachers will do is add more responsibilities onto teachers who are already massively underpaid for the work they do. And even if a teacher is around with a gun, they are not trained to deal with that situation and will likely do more harm than good.
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Annihilated posted...

LIsJustice posted...

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?

Probably a lot less than an actual school shooting. Which is really, really tiny.

Which would still be an increase in the rate of school shootings.
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Tmaster148 posted...

I don't think that has a high chance of happening.

What arming the teachers will do is add more responsibilities onto teachers who are already massively underpaid for the work they do. And even if a teacher is around with a gun, they are not trained to deal with that situation and will likely do more harm than good.

It's not hard to keep it in a lockbox or something in case of an emergency. At least the response would be a lot quicker than the police.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Annihilated posted...

LIsJustice posted...

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?

Probably a lot less than an actual school shooting. Which is really, really tiny.

Which would still be an increase in the rate of school shootings.

No, that's not how statistics works. A decrease is not the same as an increase.

Spooking posted...

LIsJustice posted...

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?

Same thing police and military do: keep composure.

Teachers aren't trained in the same way.
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Just remember, when there is a shootout between a bad guy with a gun and a good guy with a gun the good guy wins 100% of the time.
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Because teachers are impeccable human beings who would never use a tool designed to kill on their own students obviously tc
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Annihilated posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

I don't think that has a high chance of happening.

What arming the teachers will do is add more responsibilities onto teachers who are already massively underpaid for the work they do. And even if a teacher is around with a gun, they are not trained to deal with that situation and will likely do more harm than good.

It's not hard to keep it in a lockbox or something in case of an emergency. At least the response would be a lot quicker than the police.

Quicker response sure. But it would be far lower quality and probably cause more harm until the police do arrive.

Teachers are not trained to shot a gun at a person firing their own gun. They are trained to teach children.
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i legitimately understand the logic behind it. as a liberal who wants common sense gun control i think gun free zones are idiotic. HOWEVER...Logistically this just doesn't solve the problem at all. How do we afford to train these teachers and supply them with a gun? We can barely afford to give them pens apparently. New teachers come into work every day. its a perpetual process...Do we expect the teachers themselves to pay for the weapon and training? That isn't fair at all. Being a marksman and an expert shot should not be part of the curriculum for becoming a teacher. That should not be the new reality of America. do you know how fuckin Absurd that sounds?
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An increase in teacher suicides are probably the most likely outcome here.
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LIsJustice posted...

Spooking posted...

LIsJustice posted...

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?

Same thing police and military do: keep composure.

Teachers aren't trained in the same way.

You're right, they're probably trained more than police at keeping their composure
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DarthAragorn posted...

LIsJustice posted...

Spooking posted...

LIsJustice posted...

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?

Same thing police and military do: keep composure.

Teachers aren't trained in the same way.

You're right, they're probably trained more than police at keeping their composure

In a completely different setting. Teachers are not trained to deal with an active shooting on the building.
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Annihilated posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Annihilated posted...

LIsJustice posted...

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?

Probably a lot less than an actual school shooting. Which is really, really tiny.

Which would still be an increase in the rate of school shootings.

No, that's not how statistics works. A decrease is not the same as an increase.

And that's just an assumption, not a statistic.
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Tmaster148 posted...

Quicker response sure. But it would be far lower quality and probably cause more harm until the police do arrive.

Schools already have lockdown procedures and drills for these kinds of situations. Firepower + fortification = advantage.

Tmaster148 posted...

Teachers are not trained to shot a gun at a person firing their own gun. They are trained to teach children.

Yeah, if only teachers could like... learn how to do things. But that's weird though, who does that? Aren't there jobs where people actually impart knowledge unto others so that others might learn what they know? Can't think of it...

There have been 3 accidental school shootings in the US this year already. 2 of them were from guns brought in by staff.

But sure what could possibly go wrong if this became a common practice?
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Annihilated posted...

Schools already have lockdown procedures and drills for these kinds of situations. Firepower + fortification = advantage.

Lockdown procedures are to get people to hide and avoid coming into contact with the shooter.

Annihilated posted...

Yeah, if only teachers could like... learn how to do things. But that's weird though, who does that? Aren't there jobs where people actually impart knowledge unto others so that others might learn what they know? Can't think of it...

Teachers put a lot of hours into teacher as it is. You also want to them to regularly train to deal with an active shooter as well now. Yet there's 0 talk of paying teachers more.
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Annihilated posted...

Yeah, if only teachers could like... learn how to do things. But that's weird though, who does that? Aren't there jobs where people actually impart knowledge unto others so that others might learn what they know? Can't think of it...

hmmm what if uhhh i dunno teachers want to teach and not be a fucking trained killer?
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Let's just throw a bunch of ideas at the wall and see what sticks!

metralo posted...

Annihilated posted...

Yeah, if only teachers could like... learn how to do things. But that's weird though, who does that? Aren't there jobs where people actually impart knowledge unto others so that others might learn what they know? Can't think of it...

hmmm what if uhhh i dunno teachers want to teach and not be a fucking trained killer?

That's fine

I personally think teachers should just have the option to concealed carry rather than being forced to be a sitting duck
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"Hey teacher! I know you're already massively underpaid and sometimes lack the proper supplies needed in your classroom, but now you need to be trained how to handle a firearm in the event an active shooter comes into your school. You will not be given a raise for this training but we'll make sure that each and every one of you will have your own gun!"
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NinjaWarrior455 posted...

"Hey teacher! I know you're already massively underpaid and sometimes lack the proper supplies needed in your classroom, but now you need to be trained how to handle a firearm in the event an active shooter comes into your school. You will not be given a raise for this training but we'll make sure that each and every one of you will have your own gun!"

"Fuck the kids, I want muh money!"

just have one or two armed police offers near or on the campus at all times
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Lets say there is a scenario where a teacher kills a student or innocent accidentally under duress. Could even be during a school shooting threat/lockdown.

What would happen?
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Darmik posted...

Lets say there is a scenario where a teacher kills a student or innocent accidentally under duress. Could even be during a school shooting threat/lockdown.

What would happen?

republicans say "we need to arm the children"
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1. School districts have a lot more money than they like to whine about not having. They just dont like spending it. They can afford to outfit several teachers with weapons and training. I dont advocate arming every teacher since there are some still teaching way past retirement...

2. Tactical training courses are available. Many NRA instructors who are qualified to teach tactical training give the same courses law enforcement must go through. The certification must be renewed annually.

3. CCW holders are already well-versed in controlling their emotions in everyday scenarios. Disciplining an unruly student is not going to result in the teacher flying off the handle. If teachers dont backhand kids in the mouth already then why would they shoot them?

4. Have the guns stored in the office and checked out every morning, then returned every afternoon. No one gets to bring it home. Teachers using their own weapons must check them in and out with the office everyday.

5. Protect your classrooms. Teachers with students are required to stay in their rooms if they have students during lockdown. Only administrators and off hour teachers will be allowed to roam the halls in 2-3 man units. Multiple man teams cut down on ambushes and misidentification.
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Same reason democrats say banning "assault rifles" will stop shootings. The reality is there is no easy fix to the problem and politicians will say random shit to get themselves out of hot water.
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scorpion41 posted...

4. Have the guns stored in the office and checked out every morning, then returned every afternoon. No one gets to bring it home. Teachers using their own weapons must check them in and out with the office everyday.

Err this seems to make the entire thing pointless. They're supposed to rush to the office to collect their weapons during a mass shooting?

scorpion41 posted...

5. Protect your classrooms. Teachers with students are required to stay in their rooms if they have students during lockdown. Only administrators and off hour teachers will be allowed to roam the halls in 2-3 man units. Multiple man teams cut down on ambushes and misidentification.

What? Do you think schools have swat teams ready to go or something? I'm not sure what office ladies you had in your school...

And;
Darmik posted...

Lets say there is a scenario where a teacher kills a student or innocent accidentally under duress. Could even be during a school shooting threat/lockdown.

What would happen?

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metralo posted...

Darmik posted...

Lets say there is a scenario where a teacher kills a student or innocent accidentally under duress. Could even be during a school shooting threat/lockdown.

What would happen?

republicans say "we need to arm the children"

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I feel like people that suggest the topic title miss the point. The ultimate goal shouldn't be to accept the problem, but to fix it. Everyone packing and fearing death around every corner is a defeatist solution IMO. It goes in the wrong direction. It's not even realistic because, at the end of the day, this is not a huge problem, though it is a problem worth solving. Living in America turning into living in the war-torn Middle East is a bit drastic. And yes, the knee-jerk calls for bans on the other side of the coin are also poorly thought out. There is clearly something that is not the quantity of guns causing a problem in America.
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Something I posted in another topic:

We can't even always trust police officers to stay calm and discharge their firearm properly, but we're supposed to trust a bunch of armed civilians to stay calm, identify the correct target, and play hero? A police officer fucks up and the argument is "They're only humans. This ain't the movies." But civilians? They're motherfucking John Wick.
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Darmik posted...

scorpion41 posted...

4. Have the guns stored in the office and checked out every morning, then returned every afternoon. No one gets to bring it home. Teachers using their own weapons must check them in and out with the office everyday.

Err this seems to make the entire thing pointless. They're supposed to rush to the office to collect their weapons during a mass shooting?

I think you need to reread what I posted.

scorpion41 posted...

5. Protect your classrooms. Teachers with students are required to stay in their rooms if they have students during lockdown. Only administrators and off hour teachers will be allowed to roam the halls in 2-3 man units. Multiple man teams cut down on ambushes and misidentification.

What? Do you think schools have swat teams ready to go or something? I'm not sure what office ladies you had in your school...
Schools have multiple male staff and some have masculine female staff so...yeah.

And;
Darmik posted...

Lets say there is a scenario where a teacher kills a student or innocent accidentally under duress. Could even be during a school shooting threat/lockdown.

What would happen?

What happens when a cop kills people accidentally? Suspension, investigation, and punishment/release. School shootings are so rare that districts could easily manage this.
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scorpion41 posted...

What happens when a cop kills people accidentally? Suspension, investigation, and punishment/release. School shootings are so rare that districts could easily manage this.

Seeing a teacher get suspended with pay after gunning down a child would be something else.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

Annihilated posted...

LIsJustice posted...

Imagine if a teacher is having a bad day and a student acts up, what are the chances the teacher loses control and shoots the kid?

Probably a lot less than an actual school shooting. Which is really, really tiny.

Which would still be an increase in the rate of school shootings.

It depends on how much of a deterrent everyone having a gun is. Watch, school shootings drop 95% but fertilizer bomb usage goes up 400%.
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Tmaster148 posted...

I don't think that has a high chance of happening.

What arming the teachers will do is add more responsibilities onto teachers who are already massively underpaid for the work they do. And even if a teacher is around with a gun, they are not trained to deal with that situation and will likely do more harm than good.

Which is why a nation wide training mandate for all government/school officials that don't have it, would be amazing.

lol

i wanna live in whatever idealistic fantasy land that you guys do
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hockeybub89 posted...

I feel like people that suggest the topic title miss the point. The ultimate goal shouldn't be to accept the problem, but to fix it. Everyone packing and fearing death around every corner is a defeatist solution IMO. It goes in the wrong direction. It's not even realistic because, at the end of the day, this is not a huge problem, though it is a problem worth solving. Living in America turning into living in the war-torn Middle East is a bit drastic. And yes, the knee-jerk calls for bans on the other side of the coin are also poorly thought out. There is clearly something that is not the quantity of guns causing a problem in America.

Crazy people control is the solution, not gun control. There were three hundred million OTHER guns that day that weren't used to kill any teenagers.
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Why stop there?

Going postal is a thing. Better start training post office employees to handle a mass shooter.

They're also a threat in tourist landmarks. Lets give all of the tour guides and helpers some tactical training and guns. Lets all band together and shoot down bad people!
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yeah think about the guns feelings d00d dont blame it on them
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Just think how many more sales of firearms the industry would produce if they had to equip every single teacher in the country. Charlton Heston wouldn't be able to stand up for the massive erection he'd have over that.
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TheKingbear2018 posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

I don't think that has a high chance of happening.

What arming the teachers will do is add more responsibilities onto teachers who are already massively underpaid for the work they do. And even if a teacher is around with a gun, they are not trained to deal with that situation and will likely do more harm than good.

Which is why a nation wide training mandate for all government/school officials that don't have it, would be amazing.

So which conservative politician is going to push for this national taxpayer-funded program? Though "America gets universal gun training, but not universal healthcare" sounds like a realistic headline here in the darkest timeline.
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TheKingbear2018 posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

I don't think that has a high chance of happening.

What arming the teachers will do is add more responsibilities onto teachers who are already massively underpaid for the work they do. And even if a teacher is around with a gun, they are not trained to deal with that situation and will likely do more harm than good.

Which is why a nation wide training mandate for all government/school officials that don't have it, would be amazing.

So now teachers have to spend more time learning how to use guns for situations where they probably wouldn't be that useful and cause more harm than good all the while being laughed at by the right for wanting better wages?
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LIsJustice posted...

So now teachers have to spend more time learning how to use guns for situations where they probably wouldn't be that useful and cause more harm than good all the while being laughed at by the right for wanting better wages?

lol exactly

The only thing that would change would be that teachers would be the first target before a shooter slaughters the rest of the class.

>teacher turns xer back to write on the whiteboard
>armed student shoots them dead
>threat neutralized
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Why do people seem to think that "arming teachers" means "require literally every teacher to pack heat?" Ever think that, maybe, they just want to give teachers the option to carry guns? They could even require the ones that want to carry to take prerequisite tests and require yearly trainings.

Vertania posted...

Why do people seem to think that "arming teachers" means "require literally every teacher to pack heat?" Ever think that, maybe, they just want to give teachers the option to carry guns? They could even require the ones that want to carry to take prerequisite tests and require yearly trainings.

Because;
Darmik posted...

Lets say there is a scenario where a teacher kills a student or innocent accidentally under duress. Could even be during a school shooting threat/lockdown.

What would happen?

Guns are an inherent risk. If one kid gets injured or killed unintentionally (or intentionally) by a gun that was located within the school and brought in by staff they will he held responsible.
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I'm a liberal and I don't see it as a bad idea. I don't know why so many are against it. Apparently CE thinks you need SWAT tactical training to be able to shoot a target without killing 50+ around you.

Vertania posted...

Why do people seem to think that "arming teachers" means "require literally every teacher to pack heat?" Ever think that, maybe, they just want to give teachers the option to carry guns?

This too. Every argument I've seen against it seems to assume every teacher would be armed against their will or something strange.
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