Current Events > FEMINISTS and SJWs MAD over VIDEO GAME portraying HISTORY ACCURATELY

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NinjaBreakfast
02/18/18 1:14:30 PM
#51:


tbh if they had even coded in POC to appear like incredibly rarely I feel they could have avoided the bad press on this.

get the feeling that the people involved are more interested in appealing to certain demographics by not doing so though
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The_Ivory_Man
02/18/18 1:16:27 PM
#52:


scar the 1 posted...
The_Ivory_Man posted...
Name a black person in 15th century Bohemia. If they were some black people in that era, it should be easy to name one.

http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/post/75252294049/hi-ive-been-looking-at-a-kickstarter-for-a

This seems to be what started the entire thing. Someone gave a bunch of arguments why the dev was wrong, then people got super pissed at SJWs.
I struggle to see how "you can't name a black person in 15th century Bohemia" implies "people of color in 15th century Bohemia were very very rare". Maybe my logic is weak.


So first off a Tumblr called "MedievalPoC" is you source here?

And what's wrong? They never give an example of black people in Bohemia, just that paintings depicting Africans were done. People were always interested in culture outside their own why do you think Aladdin "takes place" in China?

And yes, the burden of proof is on the person claiming they were around in number. That's how it works. Weird how there are documented communities for some minorities like Jews and Turkic people but not for black people almost like they weren't present there
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Deadpool_18
02/18/18 1:20:19 PM
#53:


The people in that thread sound like their favorite hobby is sucking the fun out of something that should purely be an escape.
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metralo
02/18/18 1:25:14 PM
#54:


Spooking posted...
This reminds me of when people got mad at a WWII game that didn't feature more women or minorities. Bruh... lol


similarly, a bunch of alt righters were mad at wolfenstein 2 because the main character calls them white racist pieces of shit. they said he didn't need to say white, since minorities were commonly nazis too.

sure wish they made up their mind!
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Hexenherz
02/18/18 1:34:00 PM
#55:


scar the 1 posted...
Hexenherz posted...
"There are paintings of black people from that time so they must have been very common. If you don't believe me, read this 569 page book about it!!"

Yeah. No thanks.

You seem to be mixing up the arguments presented in the response. One argument was that poc (not just black people) were depicted in art.
Another was that demographics that would have contained a lot of poc (Mongols, Turks, Greek, etc) lived there at the time. So two different pieces of evidence support the same conclusion.
And finally - they actually provide sources and which pages to look at and you dismiss them because they're too long? Lmao


Just because POC people were depicted in art does not automatically mean that those ethnicities comprised a large percentage of the population of the time, especially not in the area of the region where the game takes place. This proves the literal sense of "there were POC there", but it does nothing to actually illustrate just how much of the population were non-Slavs. There could have literally been five Black people in the area that happened to stand out and do some really amazing things and get painted, that doesn't mean that suddenly 15th century Bohemia looked like modern day London.

From what I saw, the link in that person's post was just to a book in general, not to specific pages.

I'm definitely not arguing that they're wrong that historically different ethnic groups live in that region in that time period. I'm just saying they are potentially overblowing the demographic composition for where the game takes place.
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creativerealms
02/18/18 1:34:42 PM
#56:


Who cares what some uneducated idiots think.
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scar the 1
02/18/18 1:49:17 PM
#57:


The_Ivory_Man posted...
So first off a Tumblr called "MedievalPoC" is you source here?

And what's wrong? They never give an example of black people in Bohemia, just that paintings depicting Africans were done. People were always interested in culture outside their own why do you think Aladdin "takes place" in China?

And yes, the burden of proof is on the person claiming they were around in number. That's how it works. Weird how there are documented communities for some minorities like Jews and Turkic people but not for black people almost like they weren't present there

My source is what I found when I tried to trace the outrage to its roots. That tumblr post being shown on tumblrinaction seems to have triggered a lot of shit and brought a lot of attention to the issue.

As for the credibility of the tumblr account that specializes in poc in history? I'm inclined to defer, since they seem quite well read, they present arguments in a well-structured manner, and they provide clear references.
I'm not saying anything is wrong, but to me it definitely looks like the statement that "poc in 15th century Bohemia were very very rare" isn't entirely correct. And let's be clear, I'm not talking about black people, I'm talking about people of color, because that's what MedievalPOC is talking about.
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The_Ivory_Man
02/18/18 1:49:53 PM
#58:


metralo posted...
Spooking posted...
This reminds me of when people got mad at a WWII game that didn't feature more women or minorities. Bruh... lol


similarly, a bunch of alt righters were mad at wolfenstein 2 because the main character calls them white racist pieces of shit. they said he didn't need to say white, since minorities were commonly nazis too.

sure wish they made up their mind!


I believe the complaint was that it was out of character given his dialogue with Klaus and such in the previous game.

I've never heard talk of it being for the reasons you described.

Although just to mention it, Hitler considered the Japanese and Chinese to be racially superior to his fascist ally Italy. So having Asians as Nazis wouldn't be out of place despite them being a minority.
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#59
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#60
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scar the 1
02/18/18 1:56:46 PM
#61:


Hexenherz posted...
Just because POC people were depicted in art does not automatically mean that those ethnicities comprised a large percentage of the population of the time, especially not in the area of the region where the game takes place. This proves the literal sense of "there were POC there", but it does nothing to actually illustrate just how much of the population were non-Slavs. There could have literally been five Black people in the area that happened to stand out and do some really amazing things and get painted, that doesn't mean that suddenly 15th century Bohemia looked like modern day London.

From what I saw, the link in that person's post was just to a book in general, not to specific pages.

I'm definitely not arguing that they're wrong that historically different ethnic groups live in that region in that time period. I'm just saying they are potentially overblowing the demographic composition for where the game takes place.

The art is not the only piece of evidence they cite. If it were, the argument would be that much weaker.
And you saw wrong. The book references had information about which pages the writer cited.
Feel free to argue whatever you want, you're arguing without sources against someone whose sources you refuse to read because "they're too many pages". And ultimately, I don't really think it matters either way. I think that tumblr post is perfectly reasonable, and it's not in any way a call to boycott the game. It's just a civil answer to a question and really warrants no outrage from either side. Yet MedievalPOC got flooded with hatemail after being featured on tumblrinaction.
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Kitt
02/18/18 1:57:04 PM
#62:


FEMINISTS SJWs MAD VIDEO GAME HISTORY ACCURATELY

/caps
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The_Ivory_Man
02/18/18 2:00:15 PM
#63:


scar the 1 posted...
The_Ivory_Man posted...
So first off a Tumblr called "MedievalPoC" is you source here?

And what's wrong? They never give an example of black people in Bohemia, just that paintings depicting Africans were done. People were always interested in culture outside their own why do you think Aladdin "takes place" in China?

And yes, the burden of proof is on the person claiming they were around in number. That's how it works. Weird how there are documented communities for some minorities like Jews and Turkic people but not for black people almost like they weren't present there

My source is what I found when I tried to trace the outrage to its roots. That tumblr post being shown on tumblrinaction seems to have triggered a lot of shit and brought a lot of attention to the issue.

As for the credibility of the tumblr account that specializes in poc in history? I'm inclined to defer, since they seem quite well read, they present arguments in a well-structured manner, and they provide clear references.
I'm not saying anything is wrong, but to me it definitely looks like the statement that "poc in 15th century Bohemia were very very rare" isn't entirely correct. And let's be clear, I'm not talking about black people, I'm talking about people of color, because that's what MedievalPOC is talking about.


Listen I'm not going to exactly trust MedievalPoC as much as a legitimate source. It's literally a Tumblr blog.

The start was a writer attacking the game for not including black people, spinning it to be PoC to cloud the argument and go "well actually..." Is ridiculous and spinning to suit the argument.

And minorities in those days were in far fewer numbers than the minorities of today.

But to be clear Turkish people and Arabs are PoC now?

They're white on the US census, didn't people call JonTron white just last year? He'd be a "PoC" by those standards.

I despise the term PoC. I come from a multicultural family. Talk about what they are not just "Not White" (which seems to be including more and more now)
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Mist_Turnips
02/18/18 2:05:55 PM
#64:


The_Ivory_Man posted...


But to be clear Turkish people and Arabs are PoC now?

They're white on the US census, didn't people call JonTron white just last year? He'd be a "PoC" by those standards.

I despise the term PoC. I come from a multicultural family. Talk about what they are not just "Not White" (which seems to be including more and more now)

The answer to whether someone is a PoC is based entirely on what is convenient to a SJW.

If they are a victim, they are a PoC. If they are a bad person, they are white.
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The_Ivory_Man
02/18/18 2:09:15 PM
#65:


M_Live posted...
The lead designer or whatever on this game is like, the worst guy ever.


He's definitely rude the way he responds.

He's not the worst guy when there are others that are far more rude and agressive or game devs going on conspiracy theories like "the government is planning on weaponizing the moon by throwing rocks from it at targets"
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scar the 1
02/18/18 2:28:30 PM
#66:


The_Ivory_Man posted...
scar the 1 posted...
The_Ivory_Man posted...
So first off a Tumblr called "MedievalPoC" is you source here?

And what's wrong? They never give an example of black people in Bohemia, just that paintings depicting Africans were done. People were always interested in culture outside their own why do you think Aladdin "takes place" in China?

And yes, the burden of proof is on the person claiming they were around in number. That's how it works. Weird how there are documented communities for some minorities like Jews and Turkic people but not for black people almost like they weren't present there

My source is what I found when I tried to trace the outrage to its roots. That tumblr post being shown on tumblrinaction seems to have triggered a lot of shit and brought a lot of attention to the issue.

As for the credibility of the tumblr account that specializes in poc in history? I'm inclined to defer, since they seem quite well read, they present arguments in a well-structured manner, and they provide clear references.
I'm not saying anything is wrong, but to me it definitely looks like the statement that "poc in 15th century Bohemia were very very rare" isn't entirely correct. And let's be clear, I'm not talking about black people, I'm talking about people of color, because that's what MedievalPOC is talking about.


Listen I'm not going to exactly trust MedievalPoC as much as a legitimate source. It's literally a Tumblr blog.

The start was a writer attacking the game for not including black people, spinning it to be PoC to cloud the argument and go "well actually..." Is ridiculous and spinning to suit the argument.

And minorities in those days were in far fewer numbers than the minorities of today.

But to be clear Turkish people and Arabs are PoC now?

They're white on the US census, didn't people call JonTron white just last year? He'd be a "PoC" by those standards.

I despise the term PoC. I come from a multicultural family. Talk about what they are not just "Not White" (which seems to be including more and more now)

Lucky MedievalPOC literally cites legitimate sources that you can peruse.
I've noticed that there seems to be some outrage that black people aren't represented enough in every European game. I haven't seen that here, but that specifically I think can often be very farfetched and ignorant.

As for what actually accounts to POC, again the MedievalPOC post addresses this, because historical accounts categorize people by religion and ethnicity rather than race. So in a sense they actually echo your concern.
As for despising the term POC, sorry about that. It's a commonly used term, coined by POC.
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The-Apostle
02/18/18 2:30:21 PM
#67:


Genocet_10-325 posted...
apolloooo posted...
myzz7 posted...
i like CAPITALIZING words RANDOMLY

Duckbear is is my teacher and i want to emulate his teachings as best as i could.

I want to make a living writing shitty clickbaits

You realize he's a huge liberal right?


That explains why he's more biased than Fox News.
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MangaFan462
02/18/18 3:06:18 PM
#68:


I don't why these idiots get triggered by the facts.
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EverDownward
02/18/18 3:08:59 PM
#69:


I liked that in the same day Polygon released two articles for Kingdom Come. One was berating it, calling it immature and bad and whatnot. Three hours later, another article pops up saying "Okay, this isn't that bad, you just gotta get used to it."

Granted, they were by different people. I just thought you had two different opinions by the same site on the same day.
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#70
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ImTheMacheteGuy
02/18/18 4:05:46 PM
#71:


YourDrunkFather posted...
Poor baby's


Poor baby's what? Poor what belonging to a baby?
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Hexenherz
02/18/18 4:10:46 PM
#72:


BettyB0op08 posted...
Blue_Inigo posted...
Lets not forget that this game has magic potions. Something that also did not exist in 15th century Bohemia. If those can get a pass, I think some dark skinned people can.

Where were the Muslims and Asians in Red Dead Redemption? It's well documented that a lot of Asians came over during the gold rush and there's no doubt that at least some people worshipped Islam even in the US. Why weren't there any representation there? And that's a much more mainstream series. I don't think I recall any Muslims in call of duty either.

I think RDR came out before nitpicking things in video games was really a thing.
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Funbazooka
02/18/18 4:11:25 PM
#73:


Muh representation
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rexcrk
02/18/18 4:16:38 PM
#74:


myzz7 posted...
i like CAPITALIZING words RANDOMLY

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Coffeebeanz
02/18/18 4:21:01 PM
#75:


"The creator of this game is a pig, therefore it invalidates anything objectively true about the game's depiction of Bohemian society"

-gives Roman Polanski an Academy Award-
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ASithLord7
02/18/18 4:22:17 PM
#76:


Coffeebeanz posted...
"The creator of this game is a pig, therefore it invalidates anything objectively true about the game's depiction of Bohemian society"

-gives Roman Polanski an Academy Award-

Gamers on Twitter gave Polanski an Academy Award?

The Academy is complaining about KCD?
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Darmik
02/18/18 4:22:58 PM
#77:


Coffeebeanz posted...
"The creator of this game is a pig, therefore it invalidates anything objectively true about the game's depiction of Bohemian society"

-gives Roman Polanski an Academy Award-


Waypoint must be bigger than I thought if they decide academy awards.
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lostoutlawnb
02/18/18 4:39:13 PM
#78:


Blue_Inigo posted...
Lets not forget that this game has magic potions. Something that also did not exist in 15th century Bohemia. If those can get a pass, I think some dark skinned people can.

From what I have read, there are no magic or fantasy elements in the game. It does have herbalism representative of the time period.
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andel
02/18/18 4:43:19 PM
#79:


people that get mad about games not featuring x race are pathetic and petulant crybabies. who cares what they think, those kind of whiny babies don't buy these games anyway
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ASithLord7
02/18/18 4:43:38 PM
#80:


lostoutlawnb posted...
Blue_Inigo posted...
Lets not forget that this game has magic potions. Something that also did not exist in 15th century Bohemia. If those can get a pass, I think some dark skinned people can.

From what I have read, there are no magic or fantasy elements in the game. It does have herbalism representative of the time period.

Ahh yes everyone remembers those medieval healing potions and potions that give a +charisma bonus

Protip: "based on actual medieval recipes" =/= "recipes that actually did anything"

Medieval people were fucking idiots
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Darmik
02/18/18 4:48:01 PM
#81:


It's more about the lead designer than the actual game. The politics of the game combined with the fact that the lead designer is an open alt-righter is why they're not gonna cover it. Waypoint are an extremely left leaning video game website.

If the lead designer wasn't a factor I doubt they'd care as much.
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andel
02/18/18 5:06:58 PM
#82:


Darmik posted...
It's more about the lead designer than the actual game. The politics of the game combined with the fact that the lead designer is an open alt-righter is why they're not gonna cover it. Waypoint are an extremely left leaning video game website.

If the lead designer wasn't a factor I doubt they'd care as much.


alt right at fucking morons but a game is a game. if it is quality i will buy it, if it sucks i won't. i have heard mostly good things about kingdom come, may pick it up eventually but the criticism of not including black people in a game about medieval europe is beyond stupid
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Funbazooka
02/18/18 5:10:50 PM
#83:


People use to understand that such an idea was preposterous and fit for comedy

GqgieYF
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Darmik
02/18/18 5:14:16 PM
#84:


andel posted...
Darmik posted...
It's more about the lead designer than the actual game. The politics of the game combined with the fact that the lead designer is an open alt-righter is why they're not gonna cover it. Waypoint are an extremely left leaning video game website.

If the lead designer wasn't a factor I doubt they'd care as much.


alt right at fucking morons but a game is a game. if it is quality i will buy it, if it sucks i won't. i have heard mostly good things about kingdom come, may pick it up eventually but the criticism of not including black people in a game about medieval europe is beyond stupid


That's fair. I believe they said they don't judge people who play the game. But they've decided to give the spotlight to other games instead when it comes to their site.
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scar the 1
02/18/18 5:30:15 PM
#85:


andel posted...
Darmik posted...
It's more about the lead designer than the actual game. The politics of the game combined with the fact that the lead designer is an open alt-righter is why they're not gonna cover it. Waypoint are an extremely left leaning video game website.

If the lead designer wasn't a factor I doubt they'd care as much.


alt right at fucking morons but a game is a game. if it is quality i will buy it, if it sucks i won't. i have heard mostly good things about kingdom come, may pick it up eventually but the criticism of not including black people in a game about medieval europe is beyond stupid

That's your prerogative, but things don't exist in a vacuum. Avoiding a product because you don't support the opinions of its creator is very reasonable.

...as people who smashed coffee machines have shown us
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KYOJIROKAGENUMA
02/18/18 6:39:13 PM
#86:


NinjaBreakfast posted...
>outrage
>1 comment on a forum thread

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MangaFan462
02/18/18 8:33:12 PM
#87:


I'll still be buying this game.
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Funbazooka
02/18/18 8:37:45 PM
#88:


ul7LVdT
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TheCyborgNinja
02/18/18 8:40:01 PM
#89:


Of course its a link to Vice. That place is for dumbasses to circle jerk.
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hockeybub89
02/18/18 8:46:48 PM
#91:


BettyB0op08 posted...
Hexenherz posted...
BettyB0op08 posted...
Blue_Inigo posted...
Lets not forget that this game has magic potions. Something that also did not exist in 15th century Bohemia. If those can get a pass, I think some dark skinned people can.

Where were the Muslims and Asians in Red Dead Redemption? It's well documented that a lot of Asians came over during the gold rush and there's no doubt that at least some people worshipped Islam even in the US. Why weren't there any representation there? And that's a much more mainstream series. I don't think I recall any Muslims in call of duty either.

I think RDR came out before nitpicking things in video games was really a thing.

RDR2 is coming out soon and I'll be quite shocked if things change with it. Tomb Raider definitely came out around when the nitpickings were happening (there some weird off base controversy over her being raped). I don't recall any Asian or Muslim characters there.

Lara's best friend was Japanese and there was a Pacific Islander in her group too. He returned in the sequel.
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sutree
02/18/18 8:49:16 PM
#92:


Some of those comments are so bizarre

Historical fiction is never about the past its about using the past to reflect how you want the future to be.

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#93
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DarthAragorn
02/18/18 8:51:03 PM
#94:


It's a great game, fuck the haters

Just needs some patches for better performance and to fix bugs
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Coffeebeanz
02/18/18 9:10:16 PM
#95:


Xir Lancelot, Prince of Pronouns
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darkjedilink
02/18/18 9:20:16 PM
#96:


Blue_Inigo posted...
There's no actual good reason to have no black people and the director of this game has said some dumb shit

How is 'there weren't black people in this place at this time' NOT a good reason?
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ThyCorndog
02/18/18 9:39:25 PM
#97:


I never understood what's wrong with making something historically accurate rather than bending reality to be inclusive. if it's a fantasy game, sure. there's no reason not to have black people in baldur's gate (and there are black people in it). but complaining about there not being sub-saharan african folk in medieval bohemia is where I hop off the progressive wagon. seems like a dumb thing to complain about
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Tyranthraxus
02/18/18 9:53:50 PM
#98:


darkjedilink posted...
Blue_Inigo posted...
There's no actual good reason to have no black people and the director of this game has said some dumb shit

How is 'there weren't black people in this place at this time' NOT a good reason?

Because it's a false statement.
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The_Ivory_Man
02/18/18 10:51:03 PM
#99:


Tyranthraxus posted...
darkjedilink posted...
Blue_Inigo posted...
There's no actual good reason to have no black people and the director of this game has said some dumb shit

How is 'there weren't black people in this place at this time' NOT a good reason?

Because it's a false statement.


So where are documented black people in Bohemia?

Give a source please.

Funbazooka posted...
ul7LVdT


Since we're pointing these out for being bad examples ITT now I'd like to mention one I liked.

Not that the show was fantastic but the idea of making Porthos mixed in the Three Musketeers show they did recently was neat, it created a nice little nod to Thomas-Alexandre Dumas (The father of the writer who was a general under Napoleon) and fit in with that period.
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