Current Events > Trump administration wants to move ISS off federal funding, hopes of privatizing

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/11/politics/trump-nasa-iss/index.html

Lol. Awful.
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Why the hell are we finding ISIS in the first place?

Complete_Idi0t posted...

Why the hell are we finding ISIS in the first place?

And why is nasa funding it??? Are we sending them into space???????
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Complete_Idi0t posted...

Why the hell are we finding ISIS in the first place?

lmfaooooooooooooooo
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Complete_Idi0t posted...

Why the hell are we finding ISIS in the first place?

I'm pretty sure the state department actually does this.
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Complete_Idi0t posted...

Why the hell are we finding ISIS in the first place?

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Why is it awful? Elon Musk has singlehandedly shown that private industry can and will invest in space, and do so by making far faster innovations, far cheaper, than what NASA has been able to do.
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RedWhiteBlue posted...

pikachupwnage posted...

Complete_Idi0t posted...

Why the hell are we finding ISIS in the first place?

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s0nicfan posted...

Why is it awful? Elon Musk has singlehandedly shown that private industry can and will invest in space, and do so by making far faster innovations, far cheaper, than what NASA has been able to do.

Because the idea that science can be privatized shows a complete lack of understanding of science. Pretty much every step along the way this administration has tried to cut funding for science and handwaved it away with the idea of privatization and using Musk as their star conman.
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COVxy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Why is it awful? Elon Musk has singlehandedly shown that private industry can and will invest in space, and do so by making far faster innovations, far cheaper, than what NASA has been able to do.

Because the idea that science can be privatized shows a complete lack of understanding of science. Pretty much every step along the way this administration has tried to cut funding for science and handwaved it away with the idea of privatization and using Musk as their star conman.

You act like science didn't exist as a field prior to the modern age. How the fuck do you think we got out of the stone age? "Government funding?"
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So now we are against private interests running space?

s0nicfan posted...

Why is it awful? Elon Musk has singlehandedly shown that private industry can and will invest in space, and do so by making far faster innovations, far cheaper, than what NASA has been able to do.

NASA-man on moon 1972
Space x- 2018 still no man on moon

s0nicfan posted...

You act like science didn't exist as a field prior to the modern age.

I mean, it didn't lol
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s0nicfan posted...

Why is it awful? Elon Musk has singlehandedly shown that private industry can and will invest in space, and do so by making far faster innovations, far cheaper, than what NASA has been able to do.

Huh?
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government funding = 25 billion for ITER
private funding = crappy little fusion startup funded by Google

maybe 100 million dollars

Government funding of science has been on a steady decline for decades now. People need to pull their heads out of their asses and stop hating something they know nothing about just because Trump took one side on the issue.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/data-check-us-government-share-basic-research-funding-falls-below-50
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s0nicfan posted...

Government funding of science has been on a steady decline for decades now. People need to pull their heads out of their asses and stop hating something they know nothing about just because Trump took one side on the issue.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/data-check-us-government-share-basic-research-funding-falls-below-50

it's almost as if we'd have a lot more money if George w Bush didn't start the Iraq war.

republicans are the worst

It being on the decline means...we can't be angry that the current administration is currently aggressively approaching policy to make it not only worse, but socially sanctioned?
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COVxy posted...

It being on the decline means...we can't be angry that the current administration is currently aggressively approaching policy to make it not only worse, but socially sanctioned?

It means it's been working fine for 30+ years so if you're going to argue a continue decline is going to have some sort of tangible impact on the industry you're going to have to explain why it hasn't in that timeframe.
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s0nicfan posted...

It means it's been working fine for 30+ years

has it really been working fine?

tfp growth in the USA has been declining for a long time

s0nicfan posted...

It means it's been working fine for 30+ years so if you're going to argue a continue decline is going to have some sort of tangible impact on the industry you're going to have to explain why it hasn't in that timeframe.

You'd need to be burying your head in the sand if you didn't think the funding environment has had a dramatic impact on the state of basic science over the past 25 years.
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COVxy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

It means it's been working fine for 30+ years so if you're going to argue a continue decline is going to have some sort of tangible impact on the industry you're going to have to explain why it hasn't in that timeframe.

You'd need to be burying your head in the sand if you didn't think the funding environment has had a dramatic impact on the state of basic science over the past 25 years.

You going to provide some concrete examples, or are you going to continue to act like preaching the apocalypse at the altar of outrage is enough for people to assume you're right?
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COVxy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

It means it's been working fine for 30+ years so if you're going to argue a continue decline is going to have some sort of tangible impact on the industry you're going to have to explain why it hasn't in that timeframe.

You'd need to be burying your head in the sand if you didn't think the funding environment has had a dramatic impact on the state of basic science over the past 25 years.

he's a trump supporter. all they do is bury their heads in the sand.
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Privatizing science funding sounds like a completely horrendous idea to me.
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s0nicfan posted...

You going to provide some concrete examples, or are you going to continue to act like preaching the apocalypse at the altar of outrage is enough for people to assume you're right?

https://www.nature.com/news/survey-reveals-basic-research-in-canada-is-falling-by-the-wayside-1.22224

Canadian, but trends are similar if not worse in US. Number of PIs just solely doing basic science drops from ~25% to about ~1%.
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lderivedx posted...

Privatizing science funding sounds like a completely horrendous idea to me.

Don't be so alarmist. ISS and the FDA will be fine in private hands. /s
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COVxy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

You going to provide some concrete examples, or are you going to continue to act like preaching the apocalypse at the altar of outrage is enough for people to assume you're right?

https://www.nature.com/news/survey-reveals-basic-research-in-canada-is-falling-by-the-wayside-1.22224

Canadian, but trends are similar if not worse in US. Number of PIs just solely doing basic science drops from ~25% to about ~1%.

So your answer to my point that it's been working for 30+ years is an article where, in another country, isolated to the past 10 years, industry has shifted to applied research as well as highlighting that while researchers have increased in number, funding levels have remained stagnant?

Not only does that article point out that funding has held steady in Canada, but that the number of researchers has INCREASED and the decrease relative to GDP is a byproduct of the economic growth. The survey dropping is a byproduct of more researchers in the industry, and they're going to where the new money is. At no point does it claim Canada has decreased funding for basic research.

EDIT: I mean come on COVxy, you make good arguments often enough, but that is a complete nothing.
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Wait, this is about NASA? Thank god; I thought this was about Independence Support Services, (I've family that works there).
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It was a recent article that came to mind. Similar data could be found in US.

If you don't find the precipitous drop in basic science concerning, you lack an understanding of how science develops.
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COVxy posted...

It was a recent article that came to mind. Similar data could be found in US.

If you don't find the precipitous drop in basic science concerning, you lack an understanding of how science develops.

You haven't proven that there's a drop in the first place. You're just talking out of your ass now with nothing to back it up.
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s0nicfan posted...

You haven't proven that there's a drop in the first place. You're just talking out of your ass now with nothing to back it up.

I mean, talk to any researcher in the US. Almost every lab I know that was basic science has shifted to incorporate applied work in the hopes of actually obtaining funding.

The increase in available funding for applied research reflects a shift in cultural demand with the increased integration of industry with academia, likely.
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COVxy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

You haven't proven that there's a drop in the first place. You're just talking out of your ass now with nothing to back it up.

I mean, talk to any researcher in the US. Almost every lab I know that was basic science has shifted to incorporate applied work in the hopes of actually obtaining funding.

The increase in available funding for applied research reflects a shift in cultural demand with the increased integration of industry with academia, likely.

I AM a researcher in the US. Are you officially shifting from actual evidence to "I know a guy" as your justification for this unreasonable panic?
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s0nicfan posted...

I AM a researcher in the US

What's your PhD in?
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COVxy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

I AM a researcher in the US

What's your PhD in?

Computer Science.
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Isn't the ISS due for decommission in the next few years anyway?

EDIT:
Looks like they plan to scuttle the ISS in the next few years. I don't see the big deal if they sell it if they were just gonna abandon it anyway.
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-is-the-watery-grave-the-iss-will-dive-into-in-2024-or-beyond-2
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s0nicfan posted...

Government funding of science has been on a steady decline for decades now. People need to pull their heads out of their asses and stop hating something they know nothing about just because Trump took one side on the issue.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/data-check-us-government-share-basic-research-funding-falls-below-50

"Government funding of science has been on a decline for decades now therefore it should continue"

yikes
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GeneralZhao posted...

"Government funding of science has been on a decline for decades now therefore it should continue"

yikes

s0nicfan posted...

It means it's been working fine for 30+ years so if you're going to argue a continue decline is going to have some sort of tangible impact on the industry you're going to have to explain why it hasn't in that timeframe.

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s0nicfan posted...

Computer Science.

So you have an active R01 or some NSF equivalent in basic science? Since you're on the up and up on funding, you must be well versed in grant writing.
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I foresee the ISS becoming a giant space billboard

COVxy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Computer Science.

So you have an active R01 or some NSF equivalent in basic science? Since you're on the up and up on funding, you must be well versed in grant writing.

Yes, but where are you going with this? You still have yet to provide an example to prove your point and are now attempting to dive into my CV to distract from the fact that you still have nothing other than "I know a guy" as your proof.

The reality is that a lot of funding has shifted to venture capital, many agencies of which are actually stood up by government in the first place. Government funding is too slow to match the pace of innovation and they've recognized that and pivoted towards more agile methods.

Listen, we both agree with science is critical for advancing society, and basic research is the foundation of that. I admit I'm wrong sometimes, but not on this. Why not just admit that you didn't know as much as you thought about the history of funding, acknowledge that maybe you overreacted to this because you saw "Trump" and wanted to act like the world was ending, and just leave it at that?
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So someone who didn't realize that science literally didn't exist until like 1880, has a PhD in CS, presumably a faculty position, and major basic science funding? Oh, and also shitposts about Trump with his continued gimmick on a gamefaqs message board.
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COVxy posted...

So someone who didn't realize that science literally didn't exist until like 1880, has a PhD in CS, presumably a faculty position, and major basic science funding?

I don't have a faculty position right now, I work in industry. I'm not going to go any farther than that because you don't want to listen. You want to find a "gotcha" so you can discount everything I've said, provide NOTHING to back up your own claims, shit out at "lol trump fans" comment and then go off feeling like you've accomplished something. The fact that you're trying to argue that science literally didn't exist prior to 1880 shows you'll say anything to make yourself look more right.

EDIT: And oh by the way who the fuck are you since we're being so critical of my background? If the basis of your argument is now completely abandoning providing any evidence of your baseless claims in favor of character assassination, then you better be on a goddamn golden pedestal.
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nerd fight

I remember when the shuttle program closed under Obama and liberals told me no big deal.
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I mean, I'm just a grad student, i wouldn't sit around an internet forum and claim a bunch nonsense in order to increase the validity of my arguments lol.
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