Current Events > Why doesn't our pro-life government guarantee healthcare to all life?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Don't they care if life in this country gets sick?

Pro-Life, like Pro-Choice, is just a marketing term to make it sound more appealing. It's more accurate to say Anti-, or Pro-, Abortion.
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Esrac posted...

Pro-Life, like Pro-Choice, is just a marketing term to make it sound more appealing. It's more accurate to say Anti-, or Pro-, Abortion.

But pro-choicers don't want everyone to abort, so pro-choice is accurate....

Pro and anti-choice are the most accurate based on the actual stances we see in our society.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Esrac posted...

Pro-Life, like Pro-Choice, is just a marketing term to make it sound more appealing. It's more accurate to say Anti-, or Pro-, Abortion.

But pro-choicers don't want everyone to abort, so pro-choice is accurate....

Pro and anti-choice are the most accurate based on the actual stances we see in our society.

Nah. Not when the dispute is only about the option to have an abortion. It's pro and anti abortion. Anti-Abortion activists are fine with choices that don't involve abortion.
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all that compassion about the life of the individual gets thrown out the door once it starts to cost money (aka after birth)
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

all that compassion about the life of the individual gets thrown out the door once it starts to cost money (aka after birth)

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

all that compassion about the life of the individual gets thrown out the door once it starts to cost money (aka after birth)

If it makes you feel better, I'm mostly opposed to abortion and I think, ideally, parents should take responsibility for the support and rearing of their children, but I acknowledge the benefits of social safety net programs. Hell, I'd be in favor of abolishing the entire health insurance industry, raising taxes a bit, and expanding Medicaid coverage to all citizens.

Fuck, the idealistic authoritarian in me would like to see a mandatory birth control program for all girls and young women starting at the onset of puberty to keep teenage girls from getting knocked up before they're out of highschool.
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Oppisition to the idea of slavery?
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Esrac posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

all that compassion about the life of the individual gets thrown out the door once it starts to cost money (aka after birth)

If it makes you feel better, I'm mostly opposed to abortion and I think, ideally, parents should take responsibility for the support and rearing of their children, but I acknowledge the benefits of social safety net programs. Hell, I'd be in favor of abolishing the entire health insurance industry, raising taxes a bit, and expanding Medicaid coverage to all citizens.

Fuck, the idealistic authoritarian in me would like to see a mandatory birth control program for all girls and young women starting at the onset of puberty to keep teenage girls from getting knocked up before they're out of highschool.

that's cool that you're able to bridge the 'partisan gap' like that. kudos.

the typical Conservative mindset of "oh, i don't care how incapable you are of caring for that child, you WILL give birth to it and you will NOT receive any assistance from anyone, that's life" just blows my mind
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pro birth, not pro life

Bill Maher's take on American conservatism as this goes is best. Republicans only give a fuck about life if it's in the womb, after that you're on your own.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

all that compassion about the life of the individual gets thrown out the door once it starts to cost money (aka after birth)

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seems most pro-lifers are more about punishing people for having sex and getting pregnant than actually caring about someone once they are born.
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the pro-life crowd are also the ones who fantasize about nuking the middle east
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because anti-abortion people don't actually care about unborn children

they care about shaming and discouraging women from enjoying their sex lives because they are debilitatingly repressed

Giant_Aspirin posted...

Esrac posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

all that compassion about the life of the individual gets thrown out the door once it starts to cost money (aka after birth)

If it makes you feel better, I'm mostly opposed to abortion and I think, ideally, parents should take responsibility for the support and rearing of their children, but I acknowledge the benefits of social safety net programs. Hell, I'd be in favor of abolishing the entire health insurance industry, raising taxes a bit, and expanding Medicaid coverage to all citizens.

Fuck, the idealistic authoritarian in me would like to see a mandatory birth control program for all girls and young women starting at the onset of puberty to keep teenage girls from getting knocked up before they're out of highschool.

that's cool that you're able to bridge the 'partisan gap' like that. kudos.

the typical Conservative mindset of "oh, i don't care how incapable you are of caring for that child, you WILL give birth to it and you will NOT receive any assistance from anyone, that's life" just blows my mind

Well, Conservatives have a major hardon for personal responsibility. Which is admirable at best, but can be harmful at worst. Ideally, sure, every parent would double down and take proper care of their kids. It's good for them and it's good for their kids. I think there are deleterious effects from relying on social welfare for extended periods of time, and perhaps there sound be some limits, but sometimes people need aid in getting back on their feet. In that same vein, I'm a big supporter of the idea of state-sponsored programs to train people in useful trades.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

the typical Conservative mindset of "oh, i don't care how incapable you are of caring for that child, you WILL give birth to it and you will NOT receive any assistance from anyone, that's life" just blows my mind

I'm pretty sure the typical conservative mindset is "wear a goddamn condom if you can't afford a kid", which outside of rape cases is a perfectly valid justification. Having kids isn't a constitutional right, and its your choice if you want to shoulder the burden.

I don't agree with pro-lifers, but I also don't think you should intentionally misrepresent their arguments to make them look like cartoon villains.
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joestarrr posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

all that compassion about the life of the individual gets thrown out the door once it starts to cost money (aka after birth)

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s0nicfan posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

the typical Conservative mindset of "oh, i don't care how incapable you are of caring for that child, you WILL give birth to it and you will NOT receive any assistance from anyone, that's life" just blows my mind

I'm pretty sure the typical conservative mindset is "wear a goddamn condom if you can't afford a kid", which outside of rape cases is a perfectly valid justification. Having kids isn't a constitutional right, and its your choice if you want to shoulder the burden.

I don't agree with pro-lifers, but I also don't think you should intentionally misrepresent their arguments to make them look like cartoon villains.

that's fine, but saying "you shouldn't have gotten pregnant" does absolutely nothing once the accident happens. i don't understand why they care so much for the life of the child while it's in the womb, but if that very same child is literally starving because the mom is poor, well, that's just her fault and it sucks to be that kid. if those people genuinely valued the life of that child i would think that compassion would extend for the entire time the child is a child.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

the typical Conservative mindset of "oh, i don't care how incapable you are of caring for that child, you WILL give birth to it and you will NOT receive any assistance from anyone, that's life" just blows my mind

I'm pretty sure the typical conservative mindset is "wear a goddamn condom if you can't afford a kid", which outside of rape cases is a perfectly valid justification. Having kids isn't a constitutional right, and its your choice if you want to shoulder the burden.

I don't agree with pro-lifers, but I also don't think you should intentionally misrepresent their arguments to make them look like cartoon villains.

i just don't understand why they care so much for the life of the child while it's in the womb, but if that very same child is literally starving because the mom is poor, well, that's just her fault and it sucks to be that kid. if those people genuinely valued the life of that child i would think that compassion would extend for the entire time the child is a child.

I imagine in their ideal world you wouldn't have starving kids because parents that can't afford kids wouldn't have them. The issue is you're saying the government should be punished for not feeding the kid, but at no point did you suggest the mother or father should be held responsible for having a kid they can't feed.

But to your point, giving a kid you can't afford to feed up for adoption is already an option. As far as I'm aware, conservatives aren't aiming to shut down adoption agencies, so there's already a means of feeding the child of a parent had one they can't feed.

EDIT: Also, and this important, you need to consider their position. They legitimately believe a fetus is a baby, and thus abortion is literally killing babies. I know people turn that into a joke a lot, but nobody ever likes to seriously discuss that aspect because it's MUCH harder to make them look like bad guys. You talk about "why don't conservatives want to support the baby after birth" but pro-lifers are literally sitting there wondering "why are dems okay with openly murdering babies"? To them, not murdering babies is more important than social benefits post birth. The only reason welfare seems like the bigger issue to dems is because they don't believe the fetus is a baby, so murdering one doesn't seem like an important thing to discuss.
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Conservatives: don't kill deh babez

Liberals: kill deh babez
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

the typical Conservative mindset of "oh, i don't care how incapable you are of caring for that child, you WILL give birth to it and you will NOT receive any assistance from anyone, that's life" just blows my mind

I'm pretty sure the typical conservative mindset is "wear a goddamn condom if you can't afford a kid", which outside of rape cases is a perfectly valid justification. Having kids isn't a constitutional right, and its your choice if you want to shoulder the burden.

I don't agree with pro-lifers, but I also don't think you should intentionally misrepresent their arguments to make them look like cartoon villains.

that's fine, but saying "you shouldn't have gotten pregnant" does absolutely nothing once the accident happens. i don't understand why they care so much for the life of the child while it's in the womb, but if that very same child is literally starving because the mom is poor, well, that's just her fault and it sucks to be that kid. if those people genuinely valued the life of that child i would think that compassion would extend for the entire time the child is a child.

Like I said, it's about personal responsibility to them.

Basically, okay, you got pregnant. Now you have a responsibility to raise and provide for that child. That is YOUR responsibility, not the responsibility of the other tax payers or the state. It's time for you to grow up, get married, go to work, and feed your kids.

It's idealistic, sure, but can be blinding to reality.
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Esrac posted...

Pro-Life, like Pro-Choice, is just a marketing term to make it sound more appealing. It's more accurate to say Anti-, or Pro-, Abortion.

I say we rename Pro-Life to Pro-Government Regulation and Pro-Choice to Anti-Government Regulation
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Like Americans need further motivation to hate fat people and smokers for existing.
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Esrac posted...

Now you have a responsibility to raise and provide for that child. That is YOUR responsibility, not the responsibility of the other tax payers or the state.

They can put the kid up for adoption. Abortion over giving the child up is better for society.
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Esrac posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

the typical Conservative mindset of "oh, i don't care how incapable you are of caring for that child, you WILL give birth to it and you will NOT receive any assistance from anyone, that's life" just blows my mind

I'm pretty sure the typical conservative mindset is "wear a goddamn condom if you can't afford a kid", which outside of rape cases is a perfectly valid justification. Having kids isn't a constitutional right, and its your choice if you want to shoulder the burden.

I don't agree with pro-lifers, but I also don't think you should intentionally misrepresent their arguments to make them look like cartoon villains.

that's fine, but saying "you shouldn't have gotten pregnant" does absolutely nothing once the accident happens. i don't understand why they care so much for the life of the child while it's in the womb, but if that very same child is literally starving because the mom is poor, well, that's just her fault and it sucks to be that kid. if those people genuinely valued the life of that child i would think that compassion would extend for the entire time the child is a child.

Like I said, it's about personal responsibility to them.

Basically, okay, you got pregnant. Now you have a responsibility to raise and provide for that child. That is YOUR responsibility, not the responsibility of the other tax payers or the state. It's time for you to grow up, get married, go to work, and feed your kids.

It's idealistic, sure, but can be blinding to reality.

Thats bullshit. People get pregnant when using condoms, the pill, or both. Even married people like myself don't necessarily want children. So what you are basically saying is that I don't have the right to fuck my wife without having to worry about her getting pregnant. Which is the exact thing that evangelicals want. No sex without procreation.

Now you can say, go get a vasectomy. Fine, thats what I did. Not everyone has the money or insurance that covers it. So now you've put consequence free sex behind a paywall.

It's about controlling the sex lives and actions of others and it always has been for religious conservatives.
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ScazarMeltex posted...

Thats bullshit. People get pregnant when using condoms, the pill, or both. Even married people like myself don't necessarily want children. So what you are basically saying is that I don't have the right to fuck my wife without having to worry about her getting pregnant. Which is the exact thing that evangelicals want. No sex without procreation.

Now you can say, go get a vasectomy. Fine, thats what I did. Not everyone has the money or insurance that covers it. So now you've put consequence free sex behind a paywall.

It's about controlling the sex lives and actions of others and it always has been for religious conservatives.

Go read my reply to Giant_Aspirin in post #22

The tl;dr is such: from their perspective, you don't have the right to murder a baby because you want to orgasm.
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