Current Events > India's farmed chickens are heavily dosed with the world's strongest antibiotic.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/01/indias-farmed-chickens-dosed-with-worlds-strongest-antibiotics-study-finds

We are fucked if this continues. That antibiotic is apparently our last line of defense in cases of extreme sickness.
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agreed that overuse of antibiotics is dangerous and scary, something needs to change.

is this a problem that should be left to the market to fix, or should governments step in and regulate it, IYO?
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

agreed that overuse of antibiotics is dangerous and scary, something needs to change.

is this a problem that should be left to the market to fix, or should governments step in and regulate it, IYO?

Tag
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

agreed that overuse of antibiotics is dangerous and scary, something needs to change.

is this a problem that should be left to the market to fix, or should governments step in and regulate it, IYO?

"Should" is a poor way to structure world views. I think that the market, if there was enough consumer awareness and movement, could fix the issue within a matter of months. Whereas a government would take much longer. I don't care what the solution is though, I just want this to be fixed before we fuck ourselves.
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We carry the apocalypse in our blood.
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No. We can trust corperate giants to do the right thing. After all ...profits are only secondary.
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It's only a matter of time before some pandemic hits tbh. We overuse antibiotics immensely
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cerealbox760 posted...

No. We can trust corperate giants to do the right thing. After all ...profits are only secondary.

But of course!
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

agreed that overuse of antibiotics is dangerous and scary, something needs to change.

is this a problem that should be left to the market to fix, or should governments step in and regulate it, IYO?

"Should" is a poor way to structure world views. I think that the market, if there was enough consumer awareness and movement, could fix the issue within a matter of months. Whereas a government would take much longer. I don't care what the solution is though, I just want this to be fixed before we fuck ourselves.

.... what should happen given the current situation is a "poor way to construct world views" .... the fuck? is that your pretentious way of bowing out of the discussion?

edit: there's nothing wrong with saying "I dont really have a good answer to that right now", you don't need to frame the response in such a condescending way. this is why discussions with you can be terribly insufferable sometimes.
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cerealbox760 posted...

No. We can trust corperate giants to do the right thing. After all ...profits are only secondary.

Uh you are aware that because of the free market and consumer demand, you can buy chicken in America that was not given any antibiotics or hormones right? This is a problem in India, and the countries that import from India without giving a fuck.
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but but but capitalism!! We developed the world!!! Let the chickens have their antibiotics!!!
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

agreed that overuse of antibiotics is dangerous and scary, something needs to change.

is this a problem that should be left to the market to fix, or should governments step in and regulate it, IYO?

"Should" is a poor way to structure world views. I think that the market, if there was enough consumer awareness and movement, could fix the issue within a matter of months. Whereas a government would take much longer. I don't care what the solution is though, I just want this to be fixed before we fuck ourselves.

He isn't structuring a world view in "should".
He said should because he was asking you a question...
Doing some serious mental gymnastics here to avoid cognitive dissonance.
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For all the people shitposting about capitalism even though this has nothing to do with capitalism:

http://www.themadeinamericamovement.com/made-in-usa-2/the-biggest-chicken-seller-in-the-u-s-is-eliminating-antibiotics/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-antibiotic-free-meat-0227-biz-20160226-story.html
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LordRazziel posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

agreed that overuse of antibiotics is dangerous and scary, something needs to change.

is this a problem that should be left to the market to fix, or should governments step in and regulate it, IYO?

"Should" is a poor way to structure world views. I think that the market, if there was enough consumer awareness and movement, could fix the issue within a matter of months. Whereas a government would take much longer. I don't care what the solution is though, I just want this to be fixed before we fuck ourselves.

He isn't structuring a world view in "should".
He said should because he was asking you a question...
Doing some serious mental gymnastics here to avoid cognitive dissonance.

Regardless, I answered his question.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

For all the people shitposting about capitalism even though this has nothing to do with capitalism:

http://www.themadeinamericamovement.com/made-in-usa-2/the-biggest-chicken-seller-in-the-u-s-is-eliminating-antibiotics/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-antibiotic-free-meat-0227-biz-20160226-story.html

@Giant_Aspirin

If something like this is possible in India, I think it's the better solution. But it really depends on the Indian culture. I'm not familiar with it. In America, information travels fast and consumers can easily and quickly band together to demand change by voting with their pockets. I bet it's harder to do that in India since most of it isn't as developed.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

For all the people shitposting about capitalism even though this has nothing to do with capitalism:

http://www.themadeinamericamovement.com/made-in-usa-2/the-biggest-chicken-seller-in-the-u-s-is-eliminating-antibiotics/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-antibiotic-free-meat-0227-biz-20160226-story.html

It has everything to do with capitalism!! India developed because of capitalism! They are raising chickens because of capitalism! They have access to antibiotics because of capitalism! Your sources are just one aspect of the global capitalism!
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

LordRazziel posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

agreed that overuse of antibiotics is dangerous and scary, something needs to change.

is this a problem that should be left to the market to fix, or should governments step in and regulate it, IYO?

"Should" is a poor way to structure world views. I think that the market, if there was enough consumer awareness and movement, could fix the issue within a matter of months. Whereas a government would take much longer. I don't care what the solution is though, I just want this to be fixed before we fuck ourselves.

He isn't structuring a world view in "should".
He said should because he was asking you a question...
Doing some serious mental gymnastics here to avoid cognitive dissonance.

Regardless, I answered his question.

In a non-definitive manner.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

For all the people shitposting about capitalism even though this has nothing to do with capitalism:

how does this have nothing to do with capitalism? the market decided to pump the chickens full of antibiotics because that maximizes their profits

and jesus christ stop calling anything you dislike 'shitposting'.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

cerealbox760 posted...

No. We can trust corperate giants to do the right thing. After all ...profits are only secondary.

Uh you are aware that because of the free market and consumer demand, you can buy chicken in America that was not given any antibiotics or hormones right? This is a problem in India, and the countries that import from India without giving a fuck.

It's a problem in India now

When bacteria becomes unkillable because it infected Indians who then spread it to tourists or other travellers or if they traveled themselves then it becomes everyone's problem.

We will literally be using Chemotherapy to treat the flu in a few decades.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

For all the people shitposting about capitalism even though this has nothing to do with capitalism:

how does this have nothing to do with capitalism? the market decided to pump the chickens full of antibiotics because that maximizes their profits

and jesus christ stop calling anything you dislike 'shitposting'.

People started dosing their animals with antibiotics because the animals were healthier and grew bigger. They didn't die from disease. This practice was just accepted as routine. It moved on to farming and the industry as a whole.

Now we see consumers demanding antibiotic-free meat and being provided antibiotic-free meat by the players in the market. The market responds to demand. That is what capitalism is. It's shitposting because people are deliberately being obtuse because they prefer just whining about capitalism.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

cerealbox760 posted...

No. We can trust corperate giants to do the right thing. After all ...profits are only secondary.

Uh you are aware that because of the free market and consumer demand, you can buy chicken in America that was not given any antibiotics or hormones right? This is a problem in India, and the countries that import from India without giving a fuck.

It's a problem in India now

When bacteria becomes unkillable because it infected Indians who then spread it to tourists or other travellers or if they traveled themselves then it becomes everyone's problem.

We will literally be using Chemotherapy to treat the flu in a few decades.

I mean I don't know if I'd really take seriously your fear mongering about chemo being used to treat the flu in a few decades. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read. What are you basing that on? This is bad but let's not pull information out of our asses. Do you have a source?

If it's a problem in India now, the Indian people should fix it now. Whether that means their government bans the use of antibiotics in meat or whether that means Indian people committing to spreading knowledge about antibiotics so that the producers stop using them.
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Poor chickens : (

Fuck India, they need to lower their population and clean up the garbage asap.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

People started dosing their animals with antibiotics because the animals were healthier and grew bigger. They didn't die from disease. This practice was just accepted as routine. It moved on to farming and the industry as a whole.

Now we see consumers demanding antibiotic-free meat and being provided antibiotic-free meat by the players in the market. The market responds to demand. That is what capitalism is.

right ...the market is doing what's most profitable and there is no demand for change in India so the market isn't changing. the fact that Indian chicken farming is abusing antibiotics to maximize profits due to lack of consumer response is the essence of capitalism

just because capitalism caused this disaster does not mean capitalism can't fix it, either. but to not recognize this is directly caused by the market is naive.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

cerealbox760 posted...

No. We can trust corperate giants to do the right thing. After all ...profits are only secondary.

Uh you are aware that because of the free market and consumer demand, you can buy chicken in America that was not given any antibiotics or hormones right? This is a problem in India, and the countries that import from India without giving a fuck.

It's a problem in India now

When bacteria becomes unkillable because it infected Indians who then spread it to tourists or other travellers or if they traveled themselves then it becomes everyone's problem.

We will literally be using Chemotherapy to treat the flu in a few decades.

I mean I don't know if I'd really take seriously your fear mongering about chemo being used to treat the flu in a few decades. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read. What are you basing that on? This is bad but let's not pull information out of our asses. Do you have a source?

If it's a problem in India now, the Indian people should fix it now. Whether that means their government bans the use of antibiotics in meat or whether that means Indian people committing to spreading knowledge about antibiotics so that the producers stop using them.

You do realize a ton of people travel to India and out of there right? This is going to be a worldwide concern really quickly.
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MangaFan462 posted...

Poor chickens : (

Fuck India, they need to lower their population and clean up the garbage asap.

Actually poor chickens that dont get treated with antibiotics. Instead of having a simple infectious disease problem solved with antibiotics you have farms full of animals being denied medicine when infectious disease rolls through.
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josifrees posted...

MangaFan462 posted...

Poor chickens : (

Fuck India, they need to lower their population and clean up the garbage asap.

Actually poor chickens that dont get treated with antibiotics. Instead of having a simple infectious disease problem solved with antibiotics you have farms full of animals being denied medicine when infectious disease rolls through.

You don't use the world's strongest medicine that is supposed to be only used as a last resort for people on animals that don't need it.
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You have a fixation on "the market" doing this because you are an utterly dishonest and abrasive individual, Giant Aspirin, and I have no real interest in continuing this conversation (or any conversation) with you much longer.

Dosing animals so that they are healthy and grow has been routine for a long time. At first we didn't even know that this is an issue, and people in India probably don't even know that it is an issue. So of course they're going to keep doing it. That's not a function of some conspiracy to maximize profit through ANY and all means necessary. That's a caricature of what business is about. Most capitalists don't knowingly abuse shit in order to maximize profits. They use the best information they have available to reduce their costs. If they see that "hey, this medicine means my chickens won't die or be malnourished" of course they'd use their medicine. The same damn thing could be happening under any other economic model, including socialism.

To blame this on the free market or to attempt to use this as evidence that capitalism is bad and that socialism is good, which is what certain CEmen would love to do, is to be completely obtuse as to what's actually the root behind all of this. It isn't some insane drive to maximize profit no matter what - it's the desire for food.
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LightHawKnight posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

cerealbox760 posted...

No. We can trust corperate giants to do the right thing. After all ...profits are only secondary.

Uh you are aware that because of the free market and consumer demand, you can buy chicken in America that was not given any antibiotics or hormones right? This is a problem in India, and the countries that import from India without giving a fuck.

It's a problem in India now

When bacteria becomes unkillable because it infected Indians who then spread it to tourists or other travellers or if they traveled themselves then it becomes everyone's problem.

We will literally be using Chemotherapy to treat the flu in a few decades.

I mean I don't know if I'd really take seriously your fear mongering about chemo being used to treat the flu in a few decades. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read. What are you basing that on? This is bad but let's not pull information out of our asses. Do you have a source?

If it's a problem in India now, the Indian people should fix it now. Whether that means their government bans the use of antibiotics in meat or whether that means Indian people committing to spreading knowledge about antibiotics so that the producers stop using them.

You do realize a ton of people travel to India and out of there right? This is going to be a worldwide concern really quickly.

What does that have to do with it being silly to say that in a few decades we'll need to treat the flu with chemo?
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The free market is great when it doesnt involve public health. Most Americans dont give any hoots about health because they lack knowledge in health. When mega corps are forced to operate within bounderies everyone wins in the longer term.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

You have a fixation on "the market" doing this because you are an utterly dishonest

you can't just go around calling people who disagree with you "dishonest", that's dishonest. and im not sure anything i've said ITT is "abrasive" other than i disagree with you.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

You have a fixation on "the market" doing this because you are an utterly dishonest

you can't just go around calling people who disagree with you "dishonest", that's dishonest. and im not sure anything i've said ITT is "abrasive" other than i disagree with you.

I mean someone saying "I just disagree" when it's clearly explained where they're wrong is probably being dishonest after a certain point. Especially when they quote a snippet of a post just to say "I just disagree!!!!" but then disregard the other part of the post that addressed earlier claims.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

To blame this on the free market or to attempt to use this as evidence that capitalism is bad and that socialism is good, which is what certain CEmen would love to do, is to be completely obtuse as to what's actually the root behind all of this.

there you go again with that phrasing of "if you don't agree with me you're objectively stupid". saying stuff like that is why i, and many other folks here, find you to be especially insufferable when disagreed with. having a constructive conversation with you is difficult because you often resort so such 'attacks'.

but at any rate, no, i was not trying to demonstrate "CAPITALISM BAD, SOCIALISM GOOD". nothing in my posts have demonstrated that as my point of view, that's a fictitious argument you put into my mouth so you can attack it.

my real point was that this is a demonstration of how the market fixes itself until it doesn't. and how sometimes, like in cases like this, regulation is necessary to curtail a market unwilling to do so on it's own accord. capitalism is fine but needs regulation, that was my point.
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