Current Events > Wait.... so Medusa was a rape victim?

(+) Yeah! (+)

In a late version of the Medusa myth, related by the Roman poet Ovid (Metamorphoses 4.770), Medusa was originally a ravishingly beautiful maiden, "the jealous aspiration of many suitors," but because Poseidon had raped her in Athena's temple, the enraged Athena transformed Medusa's beautiful hair to serpents and made her face so terrible to behold that the mere sight of it would turn onlookers to stone.[6] In Ovid's telling, Perseus describes Medusa's punishment by Minerva (Athena) as just and well earn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa

In other words, Medusa was a rape victim punished by the gods for being a rape victim and her supposed evil was that she turned armed men that barged into her home into stone after she had previously been raped?

I mean.... wow.
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Greek mythology is pretty fucked up
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The Greek gods were gigantic assholes.

Zeus fucked a chick while in the form of a duck or something iirc
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I know that, but the thing is that little nugget literally changes the entire story.
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K181 posted...

I know that, but the thing is that little nugget literally changes the entire story.

Yep. The snake-body thing was pretty much invented in Clash of the Titans as well. All the classical art of Medusa depicts her as a regular human-looking woman with wings. Even in D&D and where Medusa appears as an enemy in Final Fantasy, she walks on two legs.

And also Hades was the least asshole out of all the gods. Like, he's typically depicted as the go to villain but he's literally the nicest god in the bunch. Nice in so far as one can be nice while raping persephone but when you look at the shit other gods have done Hades is a paragon of virtue by comparison.

Hades is also the god of wealth and money, a lot of things other interpretations of him leave out.
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athena was jealous that poseidon raped medusa instead of her.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

And also Hades was the least asshole out of all the gods. Like, he's typically depicted as the go to villain but he's literally the nicest god in the bunch. Nice in so far as one can be nice while raping persephone but when you look at the shit other gods have done Hades is a paragon of virtue by comparison.

It debated if Hades even raped Persephone. "The Rape of Persephone" refers to very archaic definition of "rape" which could mean "kidnap."
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BlackHorse6969 posted...

athena was jealous that poseidon raped medusa instead of her.

No she considered the rape defilement of her temple except "it was Medusa's fault cause she was asking for it."
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the only reason I knew this was cause of my myths class we had to take in primary school
looking back it's a bit weird we were told that as 9 year olds. then again we watched a video of a circumcision in religious education
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I'm pretty sure Artemis is actually the least offensive god. Too bad Apollo fucked her literal only chance to be fucked

Oh and Hestia I guess but she doesn't do shit, so I dunno if that's a fair comparison
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ChromaticAngel posted...

BlackHorse6969 posted...

athena was jealous that poseidon raped medusa instead of her.

No she considered the rape defilement of her temple except "it was Medusa's fault cause she was asking for it."

would she have considered it defilement of her temple of poseidon had raped athena in her own temple? i doubt it
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legendarylemur posted...

I'm pretty sure Artemis is actually the least offensive god. Too bad Apollo fucked her literal only chance to be fucked

Oh and Hestia I guess but she doesn't do shit, so I dunno if that's a fair comparison

Did Hermes do anything controversial? Or Hephaestus? it's been a while since I brushed up on greek myth.

I think it would be easier to list the greek female figures that zeus did *not* rape in the form of some kind of animal
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Greek mythology in general is pretty fucked up. Zeus was one hell of a player.
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There is a lot of rape in Greek Mythology when I was doing a two-year extensive study (because I wanted to know every monster and deity in the mythology down to the most obscure).

While I was studying it that this particular story was pretty common in greek mythology.
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legendarylemur posted...

I'm pretty sure Artemis is actually the least offensive god. Too bad Apollo fucked her literal only chance to be fucked

Oh and Hestia I guess but she doesn't do shit, so I dunno if that's a fair comparison

Artemis killed a dude just because he saw her naked.
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Actually yeah those two are pretty harmless, too, but I think Hermes had a prank that went out of control in a fucked up way. Hephaestus got eclipsed by Aphrodite the slut
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Yeah, I thought this was common knowledge.

Zeus and the rest of the gods were actually a bunch of violent, hedonistic, rapists.

Mango Sauce posted...

I think it would be easier to list the greek female figures that zeus did *not* rape in the form of some kind of animal

I think that's basically just Athena, Aphrodite, and Artemis.
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Again, I get the entire rape was common aspect in Greek mythology, but boil it down and it's even darker than that.

Armed men were consistently entering a rape victim's house and she was defending herself, and Perseus is a hero for breaking into her house and murdering her.

That's fucked up even by Greek mythology standards.
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Thoth is better than all of them anyway tbh
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ChromaticAngel posted...

K181 posted...

I know that, but the thing is that little nugget literally changes the entire story.

Yep. The snake-body thing was pretty much invented in Clash of the Titans as well. All the classical art of Medusa depicts her as a regular human-looking woman with wings. Even in D&D and where Medusa appears as an enemy in Final Fantasy, she walks on two legs.

And also Hades was the least asshole out of all the gods. Like, he's typically depicted as the go to villain but he's literally the nicest god in the bunch. Nice in so far as one can be nice while raping persephone but when you look at the shit other gods have done Hades is a paragon of virtue by comparison.

Hades is also the god of wealth and money, a lot of things other interpretations of him leave out.

Don't suppose you've ever read Dresden Files?

I enjoyed the conversation between Harry and Hades. He's a cool dude.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

legendarylemur posted...

I'm pretty sure Artemis is actually the least offensive god. Too bad Apollo fucked her literal only chance to be fucked

Oh and Hestia I guess but she doesn't do shit, so I dunno if that's a fair comparison

Artemis killed a dude just because he saw her naked.

Oh is that the guy who got turned into a deer? I feel like the end of that story was pretty morbid.

Hestia's sounding awfully better atm. I don't even remember a single tale she was in
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i think the word rape also had a different meaning in ancient times than it does now. like rape meant having sex with a woman without being married to her, not that she doesnt give consent.
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legendarylemur posted...

but I think Hermes had a prank that went out of control in a fucked up way.

I know Loki did that when he got Baldur killed and started Ragnarok.

In Greek mythology, if you weren't raped, then somebody at least tried.

BignutzisBack posted...

Thoth is better than all of them anyway tbh

Thoth is egyptian. The egyptian gods in general were much more nuanced with several, like Isis and Ra being straight up good people.
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Mikablu posted...

legendarylemur posted...

but I think Hermes had a prank that went out of control in a fucked up way.

I know Loki did that when he got Baldur killed and started Ragnarok.

Baldr's killing isn't what started Ragnarok. I'd argue it started when Odin banished Jormungandr / Midgardsormr. That was the final straw for Loki.
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Personally I find the Titans a bit more interesting than the Greek Gods to read on.
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Kaliesto posted...

Personally I find the Titans a bit more interesting than the Greek Gods to read on.

The difference between Titans/Primordials and Gods is not really significant. They're just elder gods.

Eros (Greek version of Cupid) is a Primordial, for example.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Mikablu posted...

legendarylemur posted...

but I think Hermes had a prank that went out of control in a fucked up way.

I know Loki did that when he got Baldur killed and started Ragnarok.

Baldr's killing isn't what started Ragnarok. I'd argue it started when Odin banished Jormungandr / Midgardsormr. That was the final straw for Loki.

IIRC, Baldur's death was the first sign that Ragnarok was coming. Maybe saying that's what started Ragnarok was the wrong wording, though.

ChromaticAngel posted...

BignutzisBack posted...

Thoth is better than all of them anyway tbh

Thoth is egyptian. The egyptian gods in general were much more nuanced with several, like Isis and Ra being straight up good people.

Thoth and Hermes are the same being, so I will change it to Hermes being the best
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Mikablu posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

Mikablu posted...

legendarylemur posted...

but I think Hermes had a prank that went out of control in a fucked up way.

I know Loki did that when he got Baldur killed and started Ragnarok.

Baldr's killing isn't what started Ragnarok. I'd argue it started when Odin banished Jormungandr / Midgardsormr. That was the final straw for Loki.

IIRC, Baldur's death was the first sign that Ragnarok was coming. Maybe saying that's what started Ragnarok was the wrong wording, though.

Ragnarok was predetermined. Odin sacrifices his eye to learn of the prophecy Ragnarok and it's literally the first thing that happens of any significance. Odin, armed with this knowledge, does literally everything and anything he can to try and prevent or stall Ragnarok, but it ends up being his own actions in the pursuit of stopping Ragnarok that cause it due to how he mistreats Loki's children. It's like a slightly less gross version of Oedipus Rex.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

BignutzisBack posted...

Thoth is better than all of them anyway tbh

Thoth is egyptian. The egyptian gods in general were much more nuanced with several, like Isis and Ra being straight up good people.

Norse gods were (relatively) chill too with Loki being the main mischief maker.

The Greeks were a society of logic and reason so how is it their gods and mythology were so fucked up? >__>
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Grab em by the pussy....and get turned to stone..
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Kaliesto posted...

Personally I find the Titans a bit more interesting than the Greek Gods to read on.

The difference between Titans/Primordials and Gods is not really significant. They're just elder gods.

Eros (Greek version of Cupid) is a Primordial, for example.

Ah that one is interesting, some stories he is listed as a Primordial while in other stories he is a Titan. Though others insist they're are two separate deities.

Sometimes there is characters with the same name.
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Ivynn posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

BignutzisBack posted...

Thoth is better than all of them anyway tbh

Thoth is egyptian. The egyptian gods in general were much more nuanced with several, like Isis and Ra being straight up good people.

Norse gods were (relatively) chill too with Loki being the main mischief maker.

The Greeks were a society of logic and reason so how is it their gods and mythology were so fucked up? >__>

Legit a lot of mythology was written to spite other city states. It wouldn't surprise me if the Medusa story could be traced back to Sparta. The Amazons were pretty much invented by the Atheneans to have stories about them were they all lose horribly in war against Athens to spite Sparta (Amazons were descendants of Ares). The Amazons did a few cool things (Hercules has to show up to kill one that was beating the shit out of Athens) but in the end they always lost against Athens.
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so theyre like muslims where it is the woman's fault for being raped?
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Zeus was a rape machine
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Mikablu posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

Mikablu posted...

legendarylemur posted...

but I think Hermes had a prank that went out of control in a fucked up way.

I know Loki did that when he got Baldur killed and started Ragnarok.

Baldr's killing isn't what started Ragnarok. I'd argue it started when Odin banished Jormungandr / Midgardsormr. That was the final straw for Loki.

IIRC, Baldur's death was the first sign that Ragnarok was coming. Maybe saying that's what started Ragnarok was the wrong wording, though.

Ragnarok was predetermined. Odin sacrifices his eye to learn of the prophecy Ragnarok and it's literally the first thing that happens of any significance. Odin, armed with this knowledge, does literally everything and anything he can to try and prevent or stall Ragnarok, but it ends up being his own actions in the pursuit of stopping Ragnarok that cause it due to how he mistreats Loki's children. It's like a slightly less gross version of Oedipus Rex.

It's also worth noting that Norse mythology is not nearly as well preserved as Greek mythology. Runes were the main form of writing and served a far more ceremonial purpose than contemporary writing. The only sources of Norse mythology are late medieval Icelandic monks or civic leaders who were already heavily Christianized. Lots of elements are highly suspect, with Loki's devil-like role being highly contentious among scholars.

I have a personal interest in modern reconstructions of the Norse faith, and have adopted many of the figures and rituals into my life, but it's pretty clearly largely a reconstruction based on some very vague and sparse sources.

ChromaticAngel posted...

And also Hades was the least asshole out of all the gods. Like, he's typically depicted as the go to villain but he's literally the nicest god in the bunch. Nice in so far as one can be nice while raping persephone but when you look at the shit other gods have done Hades is a paragon of virtue by comparison.

this is why it annoyed me so much when they made disney's hercules. that was such an ignorant movie

Dash_Harber posted...

Lots of elements are highly suspect, with Loki's devil-like role being highly contentious among scholars.

It's pretty clear that Loki is not a devil analogue. He was a Vanir which was like a minor nobility compared to the Aesir (Odin, Thor, etc). Aesir and Vanir were allies and Loki and Odin were friends and were up until Odin turns his first son into his mount, chains up his second son at the bottom of some dark cave, banishes his daughter to Nifelheim, and throws his third son into the ocean.

Loki is like "dude, what the fuck man"

Ragnarok is brought about by Loki and his children but it's caused by Odin.
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Zikten posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

And also Hades was the least asshole out of all the gods. Like, he's typically depicted as the go to villain but he's literally the nicest god in the bunch. Nice in so far as one can be nice while raping persephone but when you look at the shit other gods have done Hades is a paragon of virtue by comparison.

this is why it annoyed me so much when they made disney's hercules. that was such an ignorant movie

The movie sucked in general if you were a fan of mythology. A whole lot could have been improved by making Hera the villain like she actually is

edit: and also the fact that Hercules isn't even fucking Greek, he's Roman. Heracles is the Greek version.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

He was a Vanir which was like a minor nobility compared to the Aesir (Odin, Thor, etc). Aesir and Vanir were allies

This is not true. Vanir were not 'minor nobility'. They were a separate tribe/race/culture that formerly fought with Odin and the Aesir. Thor is actually the offspring of a Vanir and an Aesir (in this case Frig and Odin).

I actually don't recall Fenrir being chained up in a cave specifically. I know he was chained up and Tyr sacrificed his arm to do it, but I don't recall a cave specifically. As for Hel, IIRC, she actually inhabits her own realm, though her role as a Psychopomp may just be clouding my memory.

ChromaticAngel posted...

Ragnarok is brought about by Loki and his children but it's caused by Odin.

That's definitely one interpretation, and I'd say one that is pretty easy to defend, personally. Some do still associate Loki with a devil figure, though, so it's not exactly the only interpretation.

Just a reminder the gods manipulated Oedipus into killing his father and impregnating his mother just because they could.

Greek gods were some raping assholes

Dash_Harber posted...

I actually don't recall Fenrir being chained up in a cave specifically. I know he was chained up and Tyr sacrificed his arm to do it, but I don't recall a cave specifically. As for Hel, IIRC, she actually inhabits her own realm, though her role as a Psychopomp may just be clouding my memory.

Maybe not a cave, that could have just been something that was added in and not in the original tale. Unfortunately Tyr is one of the Aesir we know he least about because most stories of him did not survive. The stories we do have reference other stories about Tyr but they are nowhere to be found such as no one is really sure why/how Tyr has 10 mothers.

Originally Tyr was assigned to Tame Fenrir but Fenrir started to grow so big Odin got worried that even Tyr would not be able to keep him Tame so they tried to chain him up but Fenrir broke the chains every time. So they came up with magic chains and challenged Fenrir to break out of them. He refused because he knew he wouldn't be able to do it, and Odin bargained saying they'd remove the chains if he couldn't. Fenrir didn't believe them and demanded someone's arm be placed in his jaws as collateral and Tyr volunteered and that's how he lost his arm.

The thing a bunch of people also don't know about is that Fenrir swears revenge on Odin at this point, not because he's chained up, but because he ruined the friendship with Tyr and Fenrir. Tyr actually still visits him while he's chained up to feed him and personally feels horrible about what happened to Fenrir.

Dash_Harber posted...

This is not true. Vanir were not 'minor nobility'. They were a separate tribe/race/culture that formerly fought with Odin and the Aesir. Thor is actually the offspring of a Vanir and an Aesir (in this case Frig and Odin).

I said they were "like" minor nobility, it's not really a 1-1 comparison. The Aesir were regarded as more important than the Vanir. Loki was the son of a Giant and Vanir, however, because the Aesir and Vanir hated the Giants, Loki actually takes on the last name of his Vanir mother and lives as a Vanir (extremely uncommon for the vikings to have your mother's last name). Thor's father was Aesir, so he gets to be an Aesir.
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One thing to remember is that a lot of classical myths have multiple version. In some versions of Medusa's origin she's a woman that willingly has sex with Poseidon in Athena's temple.

Another thing to remember is that in classical times, rape meant having sex with a girl/woman without her guardians permission. Usually this mean her father or husband's permission, but Athena was considered the guardian of her priestess.

So if Poseidon had sex with Athena's priestess without Athena's permission. It'd be rape regardless of the priestesses opinion on the matter.

Wouldnt Medusas punishment for being raped actually be a gift since she had a way of defending herself now?
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