Current Events > If you disliked Last Jedi... why? *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

I just watched it and beyond it basically being a complete experience that feels a little disconnected from what the plan may have been after Force Awakens... I thought it was great.
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I liked it overall, but everything having to do with the resistance storyline falls apart the more I look at it.
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

I liked it overall, but everything having to do with the resistance storyline falls apart the more I look at it.

Isn't that more of a trope on the adventure genre? When do the plans of Indiana Jones always work out correctly instead of him just kinda bullshitting his way out of it when it goes wrong?
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It's interesting how it connects to TFA really.

It seems like Abrams left some rather generic Star Wars mysteries. The second movie was always going to be the tough one and it seems like Abrams didn't actually plan any of the answers on his own.

The obvious plot was to go the predictable path and follow what ESB did. Luke trains Rey to be badass. Rey's parents are a huge twist given by Kylo near the end of the movie. Snoke is still at large and all hope seems lost.

Instead Rian decided to just cut off any of the bait left by TFA. Luke is bitter and doesn't even like the Jedi anymore. There is no twist with Rey's parents. Snoke gets killed like a chump before he even really accomplishes anything as a villain.

I can see why people dislike this. But tbh it was pretty refreshing being surprised by a Star Wars movie.
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why do people keep asking why people didn't like it instead of reading any of the posts where people explain why they didn't like it
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Darmik posted...

It's interesting how it connects to TFA really.

It seems like Abrams left some rather generic Star Wars mysteries. The second movie was always going to be the tough one and it seems like Abrams didn't actually plan any of the answers on his own.

The obvious plot was to go the predictable path and follow what ESB did. Luke trains Rey to be badass. Rey's parents are a huge twist given by Kylo near the end of the movie. Snoke is still at large and all hope seems lost.

Instead Rian decided to just cut off any of the bait left by TFA. Luke is bitter and doesn't even like the Jedi anymore. There is no twist with Rey's parents. Snoke gets killed like a chump before he even really accomplishes anything as a villain.

I can see why people dislike this. But tbh it was pretty refreshing being surprised by a Star Wars movie.

I think it is like, the first post-modern Star Wars that knows its own tropes and wants to subvert expectation.
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There were a bunch of problems. The movie was too long with many things that should've been cut, like the entire casino planet. Rose was so unnecessary. Who didn't want to see more Finn and Poe bromance adventures? Instead we got a terrible forced romance subplot. Having Rose crash her ship into Finn's is so mind bendingly dumb.

Probably could've cut out the ending battle too. Really felt like the movie was supposed to end after Kylo and Rey go separate ways.
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Evolician posted...

There were a bunch of problems. The movie was too long with many things that should've been cut, like the entire casino planet. Rose was so unnecessary. Who didn't want to see more Finn and Poe bromance adventures? Instead we got a terrible forced romance subplot. Having Rose crash her ship into Finn's is so mind bendingly dumb.

Probably could've cut out the ending battle too. Really felt like the movie was supposed to end after Kylo and Rey go separate ways.

Yeah, Poe and Rose is by far the weakest part of the film. I don't think it makes it a bad SW movie. The entire second half of Return has teddy bears destroying the most powerful fighting force in the universe. None of the movies are intrinsically perfect. It is still fresh but like... It didn't ruin the movie for me.
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I... enjoyed it. There were moments that I was depressed about. I was REALLY hoping to see this take place years later, and have Rey and Luke reboot the Jedi. But we didn't get that. I thought it was interesting how Snoke connected Rey and Kylo.. But then thought it was dumb if he had all these master plans, yet failed to see getting cut in half.

The ending basically set up for Rey and team rebooting the Jedi and hopefully having them allow for a more gray area when it comes to them.
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Poe's decisions got people killed. All he did throughout the movie was rebel against authority.

And yet, in the end, we are supposed to just accept how he is a great leader?

That is the hardest pill for me to swallow in term's of shoddy character development.
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A lot of things bothered me.

The Leia scene bothered me the most for obvious reasons.

There was Rose, in general, from her "saving" the animals who most likely were captured soon after their escape given how they had been near the area they escaped, to how she stopped Finn from trying to sacrifice himself, to how she somehow survives the crash, which would have probably killed any non main character.

There was Holdo, and how she wouldn't tell anyone what her plan actually was, which lead to the deaths of nearly everyone. Also the entire lightspeed charge thing, which I had been under the assumption that when they did it, they'd been in another "plane", hence why they've never crashed into anything during the entire process.

Edit: And how Poe seemed to only want to do what he wanted to do because he thought it was right, which was a major contribution to Holdo's entire fiasco. Which was weird since right at the very end she says that she liked him as if she wasn't being a bitch about how he was demoted by Leia.

There was how both Snoke and Rey have no explanation, with Snoke being his existance in general, and Rey's reason for being so great at everything.

But I really did like the scene where Kylo and Rey fought the guards.
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My personal issues:

-the casino subplot was dumb and pointless (though the thiefs backstab was somewhat refreshing)
-Luke being a bitter old hermit and doing absolutely nothing the entire movie and then vanishing into the air like a coward.
-Snoke was awesome up until his random and anti-climatic death.
-Admiral Holdo was insufferable and if she was able to kamikaze the whole time why not do it with one of the medical/support ships? Or do it immediately when you see that the escape pods were taking fire.
-Leia surviving was dumb. Ackbars unceremonious death was a slap in the face. This guy led the assault on the 2nd Death Star and this is how you treat him?
-Rey learning everything too quickly.
-Finn was annoying
-Captain Phasma once again embarrassed and under utilized. Hopefully shes not actually dead.
-The resistance being down to 8 survivors is laughable.
-How about take some chances with Rey and Kylos relationship? Have her join him and double cross him in the third movie if need be. How awesome would it have been if she battled Luke for real? They teased it on the island at least...
-Give us some type of shock and awe ffs. The movie was predictable and at times boring.
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

I liked it overall, but everything having to do with the resistance storyline falls apart the more I look at it.

Isn't that more of a trope on the adventure genre? When do the plans of Indiana Jones always work out correctly instead of him just kinda bullshitting his way out of it when it goes wrong?

It's less things going wrong and more that most of it could be avoided through simple communication.
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My main issue was

False lea death scene and suspicious resistance admiral that Poe damersn had beef with

And Rose

Those bits were absolutely pointless and the film wouldve been fantastic without it
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I could go on at length, but the gist is that it was poorly constructed
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EvalAngell posted...

-Luke being a bitter old hermit and doing absolutely nothing the entire movie and then vanishing into the air like a coward.

It blows my mind that people think this
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Maybe they shouldn't have made Luke so trash if they didn't want people to think that
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DarthAragorn posted...

Maybe they shouldn't have made Luke so trash if they didn't want people to think that

Maybe people should pay attention to a movie. Star Wars isn't even complicated.
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Because Rian Johnson is an inept asshole.
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Darmik posted...

DarthAragorn posted...

Maybe they shouldn't have made Luke so trash if they didn't want people to think that

Maybe people should pay attention to a movie. Star Wars isn't even complicated.

The only thing that was wrong was that he vanished like a coward, when he simply went into the force.

You'd be either lying or incorrect to say he wasn't bitter given how he had said that the Jedi needed to die, and how he sorta found some place in the middle of nowhere to die himself.
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It isn't complicated, it's just a garbage fucking direction to take Luke to fuck off to an island for years, somewhat kind of train Rey for like 2 days, then die delaying the Empir-sorry First Order from killing the last 30 people who give a shit

But he gave them hope and saw the suns so it's okay
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StarReaper13 posted...

Darmik posted...

DarthAragorn posted...

Maybe they shouldn't have made Luke so trash if they didn't want people to think that

Maybe people should pay attention to a movie. Star Wars isn't even complicated.

The only thing that was wrong was that he vanished like a coward, when he simply went into the force.

You'd be either lying or incorrect to say he wasn't bitter given how he had said that the Jedi needed to die, and how he sorta found some place in the middle of nowhere to die himself.

Yes and? That doesn't mean he did nothing the entire movie. The pay-off for the entire movie was Luke confronting Kylo Ren at the end.
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Luke was selfish and insufferable the whole movie. Your sister is alive (for laughable unexplained reasons) and you do nothing to help her?? After you begged Han and others to risk their lives for her in your younger years? I hated Luke in the movie. He was impossible to root for. Rain Johnson completely changed his entire character for no reason. And even mark Hamill himself hates the direction they went. That in itself is all you need to know.
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DarthAragorn posted...

It isn't complicated, it's just a garbage fucking direction to take Luke to fuck off to an island for years, somewhat kind of train Rey for like 2 days, then die delaying the Empir-sorry First Order from killing the last 30 people who give a shit

But he gave them hope and saw the suns so it's okay

Which Jedi haven't gone off in a garbage direction in your eyes.
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Darmik posted...

DarthAragorn posted...

It isn't complicated, it's just a garbage fucking direction to take Luke to fuck off to an island for years, somewhat kind of train Rey for like 2 days, then die delaying the Empir-sorry First Order from killing the last 30 people who give a shit

But he gave them hope and saw the suns so it's okay

Which Jedi haven't gone off in a garbage direction in your eyes.

Obi-Wan, quite a few of the EU ones

Not a wide variety to choose from in just the movies
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EvalAngell posted...

Luke was selfish and insufferable the whole movie. Your sister is alive (for laughable unexplained reasons) and you do nothing to help her?? After you begged Han and others to risk their lives for her in your younger years? I hated Luke in the movie. Completely changed his entire character for no reason.

He wasn't a young, idealistic farm boy anymore. He blamed himself for letting Kylo Ren happen. He blamed the Jedi for letting Vader happen. He believed the Jedi weren't contributing anything positive to the Galaxy. So he decided to kill off the Jedi by letting the knowledge of their teachings die with him.

DarthAragorn posted...

Obi-Wan, quite a few of the EU ones

You mean the guy that fucked off on a desert planet for two decades after sparing Vader, trained Luke for a few days and then died to let like 5 people escape the Death Star?
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Luke was being a coward. That was the point. He felt like he did more harm than good and decided to go into isolation like Yoda. He 100% created Kylo Ren and he knows it.
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they should have skipped the casino plot and focused on Luke training the young Jedi and the mess with Kylo Ren instead imo
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The guy was missing three limbs and was just lit on fire, I wouldn't call that sparing him. And I'd be willing to bet that he stayed there for Luke and wasn't completely useless in that twenty year period either.
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Obi Wan purposely hung out on Tattooine to watch over Luke at the request of Yoda. He didnt run away and hide.
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It's a totally valid opinion to like the direction they took Luke, but it's also completely valid to hate everything about it. The topic asked why people dislike the movie and that's absolutely a part of it
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> 2018
> Star Wars still being a thing
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Obi-Wan was on Tattooine to make sure that he was safe from Vader. That was about it. Luke barely even knew him before A New Hope. He was hiding from the Empire in the same place as Luke. Yoda fucked off to a swamp.
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Speaking of light-speed sacrifices, was it explained or shown how it caused the other ships to split as well?

I'm guessing debris, but I'd imagine after the first impact the shrapnel would be going at far slower speeds, and look closer to normal impacts.
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DarthAragorn posted...

It's a totally valid opinion to like the direction they took Luke, but it's also completely valid to hate everything about it. The topic asked why people dislike the movie and that's absolutely a part of it

At the very least it really shouldn't have been a shock that Luke exiled himself like Yoda and Obi-Wan did after whatever happened with Kylo Ren. This was pretty damn obvious in TFA.

But saying that he was a coward that did nothing the entire movie is 100% wrong.
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Luke didn't just vanish, he died. It was established earlier that Force projection exerts the user so much that it can kill someone, and that's exactly what happened with Luke. He did the Force projection because he figured he was being targeted and would die before giving the Resistance enough time to flee.
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What exactly did he do in the movie though?

-He half assed trained Rey (who may or may not even need training considering how OP she is)
-He had a fake lightsaber duel with Kylo that ended in a draw
-He allows the resistance to escape by creating that diversion but....theres only 8 of them remaining so you didnt really help too much. And the First Order is still right on their asses.

What did he do exactly? Besides turn his back on his family, friends and supporters?
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EvalAngell posted...

What exactly did he do in the movie though?

-He half assed trained Rey (who may or may not even need training considering how OP she is)
-He had a fake lightsaber duel with Kylo that ended in a draw
-He allows the resistance to escape by creating that diversion but....theres only 8 of them remaining so you didnt really help too much. And the First Order is still right on their asses.

What did he do exactly? Besides turn his back on his family, friends and supporters?

If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Imagine Luke turning the Knights of Ren since he can talk to them whenever he wants as a Force Ghost.
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EvalAngell posted...

What exactly did he do in the movie though?

-He half assed trained Rey (who may or may not even need training considering how OP she is)
-He had a fake lightsaber duel with Kylo that ended in a draw
-He allows the resistance to escape by creating that diversion but....theres only 8 of them remaining so you didnt really help too much. And the First Order is still right on their asses.

What did he do exactly? Besides turn his back on his family, friends and supporters?

I dunno man. We'll have to wait for the next movie I guess to see how much of an impact he made. ESB was left open for a sequel as the enemy wasn't defeated by the end of it.
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So Force Ghosting is only a Light side thing? Palpatine and/or Snoke cant reappear and haunt the Resistance?
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EvalAngell posted...

What exactly did he do in the movie though?

-He half assed trained Rey (who may or may not even need training considering how OP she is)
-He had a fake lightsaber duel with Kylo that ended in a draw
-He allows the resistance to escape by creating that diversion but....theres only 8 of them remaining so you didnt really help too much. And the First Order is still right on their asses.

What did he do exactly? Besides turn his back on his family, friends and supporters?

Look at it this way.

Kylo Ren is shocked when Rey projects herself to him. Both Kylo Ren and Rey use the Force. He said that it can kill you. It is later revealed this was made possible because Snoke linked them.

Luke projected himself to an entire battlefield to people who don't know how to use the Force. He managed to fake a duel with Kylo Ren. He made himself look like an immortal hero and made Kylo Ren look like a fool. This tale manages to spread to some random slave kids on a totally different planet. It inspired one to realize that he could also wield the force like his hero Luke.

He did the most Jedi thing in the entire movie series so far.

EvalAngell posted...

So Force Ghosting is only a Light side thing? Palpatine and/or Snoke cant reappear and haunt the Resistance?

That's right.
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I just wish he had more of a hand in protecting the rebels. And didnt just create a grand diversion that only delays their extinction.
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EvalAngell posted...

So Force Ghosting is only a Light side thing? Palpatine and/or Snoke cant reappear and haunt the Resistance?

Concept art has Luke getting visited by a spooky looking red ghostly figure, though obviously it didn't make it into the movie.
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Did it manage to spread? Either way, he's dead now. He can't do much anymore because for narrative reasons having a powerful ghost with no weakness is just bad writing and in story if he shows up to Kylo it'll be clear he's dead now. That'll get out. "Luke Skywalker is dead." Hope gone.
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EvalAngell posted...

I just wish he had more of a hand in protecting the rebels. And didnt just create a grand diversion that only delays their extinction.

He didn't though. The entire point of his final move is that he's bringing back hope to the galaxy. Just like he did in the original movie.

DarthAragorn posted...

Did it manage to spread? Either way, he's dead now. He can't do much anymore because for narrative reasons having a powerful ghost with no weakness is just bad writing and in story if he shows up to Kylo it'll be clear he's dead now. That'll get out. "Luke Skywalker is dead." Hope gone.

Barely anyone knows anything about Force Ghosts. I doubt Kylo Ren will be celebrating if Luke talks to him through the Force.
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Darmik posted...

EvalAngell posted...

So Force Ghosting is only a Light side thing? Palpatine and/or Snoke cant reappear and haunt the Resistance?

That's right.

Do we know that for a fact? We know that individuals have to learn to maintain their individuality in the Force after they die, but I don't think it's been explicitly stated that only light-side Force users can do it. Not that I expect to see Palpatine or Snoke pop up as Force ghosts.
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AileWing posted...

Darmik posted...

EvalAngell posted...

So Force Ghosting is only a Light side thing? Palpatine and/or Snoke cant reappear and haunt the Resistance?

That's right.

Do we know that for a fact? We know that individuals have to learn to maintain their individuality in the Force after they die, but I don't think it's been explicitly stated that only light-side Force users can do it. Not that I expect to see Palpatine or Snoke pop up as Force ghosts.

I remember Rebel saying this back after TFA came out. Google is telling me it's explicitly stated in the Revenge of the Sith novel and comic book. I guess Disney included that in their canon?
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Darmik posted...

AileWing posted...

Darmik posted...

EvalAngell posted...

So Force Ghosting is only a Light side thing? Palpatine and/or Snoke cant reappear and haunt the Resistance?

That's right.

Do we know that for a fact? We know that individuals have to learn to maintain their individuality in the Force after they die, but I don't think it's been explicitly stated that only light-side Force users can do it. Not that I expect to see Palpatine or Snoke pop up as Force ghosts.

I remember Rebel saying this back after TFA came out. Google is telling me it's explicitly stated in the Revenge of the Sith novel and comic book. I guess Disney included that in their canon?

If it's in Rebels then it must be canon.
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The Resistance plotline (both the one following the ship and the one following Finn) were dumb. Rey/Kylo Ren/Luke was good.
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