Poll of the Day > It is wrong to try to normalize circumcision

(+) Yeah! (+)

If it's something you wouldn't want to remember when you know what it is, then why do it as a baby?

There is a population that were cut as babies who now wished they were not. If your uncut and want to be cut, you can still go do it.

IronBornCorps posted...

If it's something you wouldn't want to remember when you know what it is, then why do it as a baby?

There is a population that were cut as babies who now wished they were not. If your uncut and want to be cut, you can still go do it.

Because that population is really small
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I have seen more women care about it then men, and it is usually because of some bullshit reason like it "barbaric", "traumatic" or "painful". Umm, it happened when I was less then a day old. Hell, I am pretty sure it happened when I was less then an hour old. I had just gone from a womb out the birth canal into the world where I had to breath air for the first time. Not to mention the tube that was feeding me got severed and I now have to consume food in a way I am not used to. Pretty sure having a piece of my dick cut off after that is not any worse then what I just went through to get into this world. And even if it was there is no way I would have any memory of it by the time I can communicate to people.
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Circumcision on infants has impacts on psychological development.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

Ok but for the men that like their circumcision: why do you like it?

Is it because it looks normal? Outside of the US it would be abnormal looking

Is it for hygeine? We all have running water or other ways to clean regularly, any kind of dick is going to be nasty without hygeine

People say they're glad it was done before they could remember. But what if you're one of those kids that has horrific scarring or gets a disease from an unclean procedure and suffers damage? Or be one of the kids that loses their penis. Wouldn't you want the choice of what to do with your body, and not have that risk taken for a cosmetic surgery you could elect to do later?
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IronBornCorps posted...

If it's something you wouldn't want to remember when you know what it is, then why do it as a baby?

There is a population that were cut as babies who now wished they were not. If your uncut and want to be cut, you can still go do it.

As the way above poster said, it seems to be a small percentage. And I would do it as a baby because I can't remember. I don't much about the tool they use or how they do it, but I generally don't like surgery or surgery type operations. But as a baby, Idc. I won't remember that ever.
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ImmortalityV posted...
ImmortalityV posted...

IronBornCorps posted...

If it's something you wouldn't want to remember when you know what it is, then why do it as a baby?

There is a population that were cut as babies who now wished they were not. If your uncut and want to be cut, you can still go do it.

Because that population is really small

For someone who I have seen post about men's oppression, I would think infantile genital modification without consent would be on the top of your list....I was really hoping we would agree on this.

Also, circumcision is not really exclusively a men's issue.

IronBornCorps posted...

Also, circumcision is not really exclusively a men's issue.

??????????????????
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Super_Thug44 posted...

IronBornCorps posted...

Also, circumcision is not really exclusively a men's issue.

??????????????????

it can be done to women. just not something that i'm aware is common in first world countries. but i've heard of some countries where it is done.
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Not everyone born with a penis is a man.

Also, yes genital mutilation of intersex people is very common.

Super_Thug44 posted...

IronBornCorps posted...

Also, circumcision is not really exclusively a men's issue.

??????????????????

Male circumcision makes sex less pleasurable for females. The foreskin adds stimulation.

Doctor Foxx posted...

Ok but for the men that like their circumcision: why do you like it?

Is it because it looks normal? Outside of the US it would be abnormal looking

Is it for hygeine? We all have running water or other ways to clean regularly, any kind of dick is going to be nasty without hygeine

People say they're glad it was done before they could remember. But what if you're one of those kids that has horrific scarring or gets a disease from an unclean procedure and suffers damage? Or be one of the kids that loses their penis. Wouldn't you want the choice of what to do with your body, and not have that risk taken for a cosmetic surgery you could elect to do later?

I like the way it looks better than the others. I don't travel the world much, and I do like that it's more normal. Doesn't make me a bad person.

Either way, people should clean their penis. Also, I feel it makes cleaning faster. But that's not really important.

Wouldn't elect to get it as an adult for probably a couple reasons. First, like I said, wouldn't want to go through a surgery/operation/procedure or whatever it is.
Second, if I grew up with an uncut penis, I would most likely like it better I grew up with it(which is why I always wonder why they are people who are mad about it). And I am glad I did it at a time I won't remember. In the end, no scarring, still got a penis, no diseases, all good. So, that part kinda doesn't apply to me anymore.
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Super_Thug44 posted...

IronBornCorps posted...

Also, circumcision is not really exclusively a men's issue.

??????????????????

It's about bodily autonomy. It's not right to take that choice from someone.

(Circumcision is a feminist issue)
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Ok but for the men that like their circumcision: why do you like it?

Who says I need to like it? What if I just don't care one way or another?

Is it because it looks normal? Outside of the US it would be abnormal looking

Again, who cares? I don't go around comparing my penis to others.

Is it for hygeine? We all have running water or other ways to clean regularly, any kind of dick is going to be nasty without hygeine

I clean my penis by masturbating in the shower with soap, so it is a non-issue either way.

People say they're glad it was done before they could remember. But what if you're one of those kids that has horrific scarring or gets a disease from an unclean procedure and suffers damage? Or be one of the kids that loses their penis. Wouldn't you want the choice of what to do with your body, and not have that risk taken for a cosmetic surgery you could elect to do later?

I wasn't, so I don't care.
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Super_Thug44 posted...

??????????????????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

They actually call it genital mutilation.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Super_Thug44 posted...

IronBornCorps posted...

Also, circumcision is not really exclusively a men's issue.

??????????????????

It's about bodily autonomy. It's not right to take that choice from someone.

(Circumcision is a feminist issue)

This

Botched circumcisions happen and it doesn't have to happen because of an unnecessary medical procedure meaning normalized. All because you may not care about it it doesn't mean it's not problematic. It is a permanent procedure done on someone who can't consent . Plenty of people are upset about being circumcised, but can't speak out against it without being stigmatized.

LinkPizza posted...

(which is why I always wonder why they are people who are mad about it)

It takes the autonomy away from the person to have it done to a baby.

Let them make that choice if they wish. You're right, many wouldn't. That's part of the point. After a few generations uncut would be the norm again. This happened in Canada. Circumcision used to be the norm and it no longer is.

It also wouldn't be right to perform other cosmetic surgery to a newborn just because of whatever reasons. And moreover that's a seriously sensitive part of the body to take away just because that's the norm in an area. I can totally understand being upset that something like that was done to you without consent.
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Anisoptera posted...

Botched circumcisions happen and it doesn't have to happen because of an unnecessary medical procedure meaning normalized. All because you may not care about it it doesn't mean it's not problematic. It is a permanent procedure done on someone who can't consent . Plenty of people are upset about being circumcised, but can't speak out against it without being stigmatized.

True. But in the end, most people are fine or happy that their parents did it. Especially when they were a baby. And it does happen. But how often? Like percentage wise?
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I was also alluding to the fact that trans women who are cut and elect to pursue surgery have less skin to form their neo vagina. Forskin more or less functions the same as the clitoral hood.

Plenty of men are "okay" with being circumcised because of how normalized circumcision has become. It doesn't matter how many Articles you show these people detailing how harmful and unnecessary circumcision is .

Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

(which is why I always wonder why they are people who are mad about it)

It takes the autonomy away from the person to have it done to a baby.

Let them make that choice if they wish. You're right, many wouldn't. That's part of the point. After a few generations uncut would be the norm again. This happened in Canada. Circumcision used to be the norm and it no longer is.

It also wouldn't be right to perform other cosmetic surgery to a newborn just because of whatever reasons. And moreover that's a seriously sensitive part of the body to take away just because that's the norm in an area. I can totally understand being upset that something like that was done to you without consent.

Sure. I can understand that taking away consent sucks. But I still don't see many people mad about their penis one way or the other. Out of all the guys that have talked about whether their cut or uncut and like it or don't(which is probably way more than you think), almost all the guys like their penis the way it is. Other than here, maybe one or two guys I've talked to don't like it. Maybe. But I don't really remember anyone ever saying that.
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Picture this: parents in America start doing cosmetic surgery to female newborn babies to slice up their external genitalia. It becomes a thing tomorrow. You can get it done at the hospital. I'd be aghast, and I'm sure most of society would find it extremely fucked up.

Tradition for cutting up male babies needs to be evaluated.
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Not too many people are mad about circumcision because there aren't constant PSA's about how harmful is. If circumcision was treated the same way smoking, racism, and sexism was, then more people would be upset. Imagine if there were "truth" adverts on youtube/TV about how bad circumcision is. More people would be aware of it just like how they would be more aware of how bad cigarette smoke really is.

LinkPizza posted...

Sure. I can understand that taking away consent sucks. But I still don't see many people mad about their penis one way or the other. Out of all the guys that have talked about whether their cut or uncut and like it or don't(which is probably way more than you think), almost all the guys like their penis the way it is. Other than here, maybe one or two guys I've talked to don't like it. Maybe. But I don't really remember anyone ever saying that.

"I resent my penis was circumcised and that the most sensitive part of my genitals was removed over vapid bullshit, and that I will never experience sex the way nature intended. I resent that the psychological trauma has most likely altered my physical brain structure and the way I think to this day."

Not really too excited to be throwing that around. Doesn't play much for pity when everyone around me is fine with it and circumcised as well.
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Babies can't think for themselves. They need someone to think for them. When I think about someone taking someone's rights, it's about takin someone's rights from someone who can make choices for themselves. But the thing it, babies can't. In the end, it comes down to what the parents think should happen.
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LinkPizza posted...

Babies canMt think for themselves. They need someone to think for them. When I think about someone taking someone's rights, it's about takin someone's rights from someone who can make choices for themselves. But the thing it, babies can't. In the end, it comes down to what the parents think should happen.

You're right they can't think for themselves. They can't act for themselves. The parents need to really evaluate why they're obsessed about altering the sex organs of their sons.

If circumcision is really what that person wants they will pursue it, of their own free will, when they want to. Taking away that choice and damaging a body for life should not be the norm.
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LinkPizza posted...

Babies canMt think for themselves. They need someone to think for them. When I think about someone taking someone's rights, it's about takin someone's rights from someone who can make choices for themselves. But the thing it, babies can't. In the end, it comes down to what the parents think should happen.

On rational decisions. Once that thing exits the uterus there's this pesky thing called human rights, so they shouldn't be able to do exactly whatever they want.
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Why does the decision need to be made immediately? Why not wait until the baby is of age to agree to it?

When you agree to be circumcised at an older age you are given anesthetic and pain killer medication.

Seriously though...there are women with dicks.

Anisoptera posted...

Not too many people are mad about circumcision because there aren't constant PSA's about how harmful is. If circumcision was treated the same way smoking, racism, and sexism was, then more people would be upset. Imagine if there were "truth" adverts on youtube/TV about how bad circumcision is. More people would be aware of it just like how they would be more aware of how bad cigarette smoke really is.

Yeah. But most people(even ones who know the dangers) don't see it as dangerous as smoking(probably because it's not) or as bad as racism or sexism(probably because it isn't).

Yellow posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Sure. I can understand that taking away consent sucks. But I still don't see many people mad about their penis one way or the other. Out of all the guys that have talked about whether their cut or uncut and like it or don't(which is probably way more than you think), almost all the guys like their penis the way it is. Other than here, maybe one or two guys I've talked to don't like it. Maybe. But I don't really remember anyone ever saying that.

"I resent my penis was circumcised and that the most sensitive part of my genitals was removed over vapid bullshit, and that I will never experience sex the way nature intended. I resent that the psychological trauma has most likely altered my physical brain structure and the way I think to this day."

Not really too excited to be throwing that around. Doesn't play much for pity when everyone around me is fine with it and circumcised as well.

Most people don't have trauma because like 99.99% of people who get it don't remember. I'm surprised that there are people who do. Also, I could care less about having the sex the way nature intended. I usually don't have it the way nature intended. Most people I have sex with like that I'm circumcised. And it's still very very pleasurable to me. So...
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Would you agree to let parents tattoo their children?

Get them nose jobs?

Get them implants of some kind?

Body modification should be solely up to the person occupying the body and it's not ok to remove that autonomy from someone that can't speak for themselves
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Anisoptera posted...

When you agree to be circumcised at an older age you are given anesthetic and pain killer medication.

Still don't like surgeries. Lots of people don't even. Like needles or going to the doctor.
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I was circumcised at birth and I'm fine with it.
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LinkPizza posted...

Anisoptera posted...

When you agree to be circumcised at an older age you are given anesthetic and pain killer medication.

Still don't like surgeries. Lots of people don't even. Like needles or going to the doctor.

And yet even as an adult you will have to do all kinds of things you don't like. That's life.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Babies canMt think for themselves. They need someone to think for them. When I think about someone taking someone's rights, it's about takin someone's rights from someone who can make choices for themselves. But the thing it, babies can't. In the end, it comes down to what the parents think should happen.

You're right they can't think for themselves. They can't act for themselves. The parents need to really evaluate why they're obsessed about altering the sex organs of their sons.

If circumcision is really what that person wants they will pursue it, of their own free will, when they want to. Taking away that choice and damaging a body for life should not be the norm.

I mean if you are going to use that argument then why not kill a baby when it is crying? What if it isn't consenting to living and you are denying them the right to die?
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I posted an article earlier in this thread about how circumcision is damaging to an infant's mental health so please stop saying that people don't remember being circumcised as a baby.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Anisoptera posted...

When you agree to be circumcised at an older age you are given anesthetic and pain killer medication.

Still don't like surgeries. Lots of people don't even. Like needles or going to the doctor.

And yet even as an adult you will have to do all kinds of things you don't like. That's life.

Yeah. But this isn't needed. And an easy way to solve it is circumcision at birth.
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Dikitain posted...

I mean if you are going to use that argument then why not kill a baby when it is crying? What if it isn't consenting to living and you are denying them the right to die?

Seriously? You don't actively consent to living. You just live. Life is protected in society through things like laws and religion. Life is a right most places.

You have to actively and clearly request to consent to death (when applicable) and a baby can't communicate or consent.

Even if someone asks you to kill them you still can't do it, legally.

Circumcision is the removal of bodily autonomy the same way killing a child for crying would be removing their right to life. Even if they really want to die.

This is one of the weirdest arguments...
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LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. But this isn't needed.

Yeah. Neither is circumcision
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Anisoptera posted...

I posted an article earlier in this thread about how circumcision is damaging to an infant's mental health so please stop saying that people don't remember being circumcised as a baby.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

Sure. It's damaging to some people. But the thing is, most people still don't remember it. And I don't think it's damaging to the majority or circumcised people.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. But this isn't needed.

Yeah. Neither is circumcision

And in the end, most people are glad they are circumcised.
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Circumcision isn't a necessary medical procedure so arguing against vaccinations and wisdom teeth removal is moot. Not everyone needs to have their wisdom teeth removed, but there is no harm in getting them removed.

LinkPizza posted...

Most people don't have trauma because like 99.99% of people who get it don't remember.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

Research has demonstrated the hormone cortisol, which is associated with stress and pain, spikes during circumcision (Talbert et al., 1976; Gunnar et al., 1981). Although some believe that babies wont remember the pain, we now know that the body remembers as evidenced by studies which demonstrate that circumcised infants are more sensitive to pain later in life (Taddio et al., 1997). Research carried out using neonatal animals as a proxy to study the effects of pain on infants psychological development have found distinct behavioral patterns characterized by increased anxiety, altered pain sensitivity, hyperactivity, and attention problems (Anand & Scalzo, 2000). In another similar study, it was found that painful procedures in the neonatal period were associated with site-specific changes in the brain that have been found to be associated with mood disorders (Victoria et al., 2013).

It may be anecdotal, but I have anxiety, hyperactivity, and attention problems.

LinkPizza posted...

And in the end, most people are glad they are circumcised.

If they are that means they are ignorant.
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LinkPizza posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. But this isn't needed.

Yeah. Neither is circumcision

And in the end, most people are glad they are circumcised.

Glad because they are not well-informed and fall for the myths of circumcision about how being uncut is ugly , shameful, and dirty.

LinkPizza posted...

And in the end, most people are glad they are circumcised.

They didn't have a choice in the matter and don't know better. They were denied that point of reference.

How many circumcised men that did so in adulthood feel like it was an improvement when it all healed? That would be much more telling
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Dikitain posted...

I mean if you are going to use that argument then why not kill a baby when it is crying? What if it isn't consenting to living and you are denying them the right to die?

Seriously? You don't actively consent to living. You just live.

You consent to live through eating, breathing, and drinking. If someone stops doing one or more of those things, then they aren't consenting to live anymore.

Yet we force newborn babies to breath, eat, and drink. So how is that any different?
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LinkPizza posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. But this isn't needed.

Yeah. Neither is circumcision

And in the end, most people are glad they are circumcised.

glad or just fine with it? if glad i'm willing to bet because they are just glad to be normal. I really don't care to be honest but if say it where to be banned, I doubt those who go on in the next several generations uncut, they would be just as perfectly fine with it.
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Yellow posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Most people don't have trauma because like 99.99% of people who get it don't remember.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

Research has demonstrated the hormone cortisol, which is associated with stress and pain, spikes during circumcision (Talbert et al., 1976; Gunnar et al., 1981). Although some believe that babies wont remember the pain, we now know that the body remembers as evidenced by studies which demonstrate that circumcised infants are more sensitive to pain later in life (Taddio et al., 1997). Research carried out using neonatal animals as a proxy to study the effects of pain on infants psychological development have found distinct behavioral patterns characterized by increased anxiety, altered pain sensitivity, hyperactivity, and attention problems (Anand & Scalzo, 2000). In another similar study, it was found that painful procedures in the neonatal period were associated with site-specific changes in the brain that have been found to be associated with mood disorders (Victoria et al., 2013).

It may be anecdotal, but I have anxiety, hyperactivity, and attention problems.

LinkPizza posted...

And in the end, most people are glad they are circumcised.

If they are that means they are ignorant.

But you have no way to know if it's actually because of your circumcision, right? It seems like you're just assumimg because they say that it could happen. Like how they say that circumcised infants are more sensitive to pain later in life, yet I'm not. And I know other circumcised adult who also aren't.
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