Current Events > interesting post about white privilege i found on FB

(+) Yeah! (+)

Warning: Long post ahead: TL; DR at end
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Question: I am white. That's all you know about me. Am I privileged based on that alone and assuming I am, should I feel guilt and what should I do about it?

Post in response:

Absolutely.

Consider it this way. All I know about you is you’re tall.

Do you have any advantages?

Yes.

Does that mean you don’t deserve the can of tuna on the higher shelf? No. Nobody is saying that. Eat away mighty giant.

Should you feel guilty about getting the tuna from the top shelf? No. Nobody is saying that. Lighten your soul’s burden and let it fly free in the clouds beneath your knees.

Does that mean short people can’t get the tuna? No.

Nobody is saying that. See how the enduring hobbit pushes forward in her quest.

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6fb67d106b4bd7f9e7e02585c14a53e8.webp

Does that mean there aren’t disadvantages of being tall? No.

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a9d4af34db600edb755d1e21310faed5.webp

Nobody is saying that. You have our sympathy for your poor bruised knees.

What people are saying is:

Denying you are lucky is silly.

Stop looking bewildered every time a short person can’t reach something. We’re sick of explaining this incredibly simple concept.

We know there are things you do not have (i.e. even higher shelves).

We know there may be other things preventing you reaching the high shelves. Maybe you have bad elbows or arthritis. Short people with arthritis are still below you. You are still lucky you are tall.

It works out well for most people, for the grocery store to put most things on medium shelves.

If you can help shorter people with things on higher shelves, do so. Why would you not do that? Short people can help you with stuff on lower shelves.

We are annoyed that the people who run the grocery store put all the best stuff on the top shelves.

There are a lot of people who are putting things on higher shelves because they hate short people. Don’t associate with those people. They want everything to be about this height:

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3b4980897b75769abcea5c7ce5c94d16.webp

Same with white. Advantages. It doesn’t mean you’re rich. It doesn’t mean you’re luckier than a lucky black guy. Nobody wants you to be crippled with guilt. Nobody has ever wanted that, or means those things.

It means you have an advantage, and all anyone is asking is that you *get* that. Once you get that, it’s pretty straightforward to all the further implications.

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TL;DR version: Tall people have advantages that short people don't have. There are some disadvantages as well, but generally they are better off. You should help people reach higher shelves when you can, even though they perhaps can reach them themselves with some effort. Just recognize you have some advantages, and help out when you can. You don't need to feel bad for being tall, just recognize that some people have it tougher in different ways.

Same thing applies to white privilege as well. You don't need to feel guilt, but just recognize that you have advantages. Help people reach things as well when you can.

I don't want your damn help
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Asherlee10 posted...

Wouldn't you say that most of us have advantages over others in some form or fashion?

A short person might have an easier time buying clothes that fit, for example.

Yes. The hard part is getting people (who naturally think almost everything is balanced) to realize when their advantages are so much more valuable and higher in number than most other groups.
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Asherlee10 posted...

Wouldn't you say that most of us have advantages over others in some form or fashion?

A short person might have an easier time buying clothes that fit, for example.

yeah the article recognizes that

it emphasizes mostly that while there are advantages and disadvantages to a given status, they are not automatically in balance.

i think most white people in america are capable of recognizing the net advantages associated with their ethnicity outweigh the advantages associated with being some other race in america. height is used because it's a really obvious case where being tall, despite having some disadvantages, is pretty much fundamentally more advantageous than being short, although i think that is only really obvious for men.
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We're all victims of society boo fucking whooo!!!!
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Same thing applies to white privilege as well. You don't need to feel guilt, but just recognize that you have advantages. Help people reach things as well when you can.

So we've come full circle and are now back at the White Man's Burden phase again
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shockthemonkey posted...

"Yeah but"

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josifrees posted...

So we've come full circle and are now back at the White Man's Burden phase again

itp kipling's "white man's burden" was about helping people and not conquering them
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good post

it's funny/sad how white privilege is simply "this is a thing that exists, you may go on with your usual life now" and it's not accusatory or guilt-tripping at all and yet certain people start foaming at the mouth at the mere mention of the term
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That_Happened posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Wouldn't you say that most of us have advantages over others in some form or fashion?

A short person might have an easier time buying clothes that fit, for example.

Yes. The hard part is getting people (who naturally think almost everything is balanced) to realize when their advantages are so much more valuable and higher in number than most other groups.

But that isn't the case.
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Asherlee10 posted...

I also agree with the sentiment that people should help other people without the same advantages. If we all try to lift each other up, we have the potential to have an amazing society.

i think one of the easiest ways for white women to relate to the idea is in turning to the issue of women needing men to help them deal with harassment by other, toxic men

fundamentally harassment/assault of women happens behind the backs of men. i've almost never seen a guy be a shit to a woman when i was directly interacting with her. it happens the second we turn our backs.

when men recognize their privilege (to not be victims of sexual assault or sexual harassment) and make that behavior unacceptable by increasing their vigilance and standing up to the victimizers, women benefit. it doesn't mean that men would then have to get harassed or feel unsafe.

similar thing holds true for whites being more vigilant of those who bully minorities among our own. the main thing being asked of well-meaning people with privilege is "be more vigilant" because most of the shitty stuff done to people is done by a small fraction of the whole of the 'privileged' group. it doesn't mean whites would then get harassed or feel unsafe.
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mario2000 posted...

good post

it's funny/sad how white privilege is simply "this is a thing that exists, you may go on with your usual life now" and it's not accusatory or guilt-tripping at all and yet certain people start foaming at the mouth at the mere mention of the term

You've clearly never heard my sister use it.
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That post is nice and all, though the takeaway I get from it is there's no real reason in pointing out white privilege then.

Based on that train of thought, there's black privilege, Asian privilege, Latino privilege, etc etc... all with their own drawbacks and benefits. But labeling each as such serves absolutely no purpose but to draw lines between human beings, which is honestly really fucking backwards IMO.
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ForestLogic posted...

That post is nice and all, though the takeaway I get from it is there's no real reason in pointing out white privilege then.

Based on that train of thought, there's black privilege, Asian privilege, Latino privilege, etc etc... all with their own drawbacks and benefits. But labeling each as such serves absolutely no purpose but to draw lines between human beings, which is honestly really fucking backwards IMO.

Recognizing that certain groups have certain privileges is how we know who can help in which situations.

Darkman124 posted...

i think one of the easiest ways for white women to relate to the idea is in turning to the issue of women needing men to help them deal with harassment by other, toxic men

fundamentally harassment/assault of women happens behind the backs of men. i've almost never seen a guy be a shit to a woman when i was directly interacting with her. it happens the second we turn our backs.

when men recognize their privilege (to not be victims of sexual assault or sexual harassment) and make that behavior unacceptable by increasing their vigilance and standing up to the victimizers, women benefit. it doesn't mean that men would then have to get harassed or feel unsafe.

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Darkman124 posted...

josifrees posted...

So we've come full circle and are now back at the White Man's Burden phase again

itp kipling's "white man's burden" was about helping people and not conquering them

The proponents of WMB saw it as helping
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^ idk, that walks a thin line between self-perpetuating prejudice and discrimination. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems hypocritical to me since many people who bring up white privilege are also the type of people to cry racism and stuff.

Honestly, I think you gotta acknowledge that either we have the right to group people together and acknowledge one another's general differences (both the good and bad) or (the literal definition of) prejudice is inherently bad and people should try to avoid doing it period.
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josifrees posted...

The proponents of WMB saw it as helping

right, but we're talking about what the people 'being helped' want, not what the people 'helping' spin their actions as being. in practice colonialism was a mixture of mercantilism/resource exploitation and genocide
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Darkman124 posted...

when men recognize their privilege (to not be victims of sexual assault or sexual harassment)

what?

so the way the argument was made, it made me think of one of the things that frustrates me as a tall and strong man.

there are things that I can do with basically no effort that shorter/weaker people can do but require effort. since we have all accepted that it is easier for me, I get times where people ask me to do stuff they are perfectly capable of doing but might take a bit of effort on their part. But because I can do it faster or easier it becomes my responsibility to help them. I think this is a natural reaction when you get people saying "yeah based on this aspect of me x is easier" there is an expectation you have to give more because of that thing you don't control.

does acknowledging privilege not teach a certain degree of helplessness
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Being tall has easily observable advantages. What are the advantages of being white? Not the advantages that tend to be more correlated with being white (like being more likely to be born in a higher income family), but whiteness itself. What privileges will a white person who is born in a poor neighborhood with poor schools, etc. have over a black person in the same situation?
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Fuck that noise, I'm not obligated to hand out favors, especially when my own life has been nothing but struggles and misery.

Goddamn racist assholes up in here kicking me and spitting on me when I'm already down and out, anyone who thinks my existence has been privileged in any fathomable way can eat shit and die.
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Inferno Dive Dragoon posted...

Fuck that noise, I'm not obligated to hand out favors, especially when my own life has been nothing but struggles and misery.

Goddamn racist assholes up in here kicking me and spitting on me when I'm already down and out, anyone who thinks my existence has been privileged in any fathomable way can eat shit and die.

I know how to make your situations worse!! Make you a minority!!
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Inferno Dive Dragoon posted...

Fuck that noise, I'm not obligated to hand out favors, especially when my own life has been nothing but struggles and misery.

Goddamn racist assholes up in here kicking me and spitting on me when I'm already down and out, anyone who thinks my existence has been privileged in any fathomable way can eat shit and die.

primo example of someone aggressively misunderstanding a simple concept right here
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anyone pretending that "white privilege" isn't a precursor to being asked and expected to do things if you're white is outright lying

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

FLUFFYGERM posted...

what?

i'd rather not make this a topic about whether men are raped/assaulted/harassed or not (they certainly are, and at nontrivial rates) but the largest source of male victimization is one that is largely separated from modern society (prisons) and tangential to the discussion of whether the typical man in society is in a position where he is relatively shielded from being a victim of sexual violence compared to the typical woman.

it's also tangential to the much more important and illustrative point that these men are in a position to reduce womens' victimization simply by being more present and vigilant in situations that a smaller subset of toxic men take advantage of. that this is analogous to what white people can do for minorities--simply be more vigilant and speak up when they see something they know is wrong--was the point of the post. privilege is a tool, it can simply be used as comfort by not having to deal with a shitty thing, or it can be used as a tool to reduce that shitty thing (which doesn't really reduce comfort, aside from having the occasional uncomfortable conversation).

there are toxic women who take advantage of men too, of course. and women could be leaning in and helping their male friends not be taken advantage of by those women in ways their male peers really couldn't. which is, again, tangential to the point since i was framing the idea specifically for white women who aren't sure they agree with the idea of white privilege.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

anyone pretending that "white privilege" isn't a precursor to being asked and expected to do things if you're white is outright lying

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

Anyone pretending conservativism isn't a mental illness is outright lying

*links to infowars*

Seriously, taking an extreme position and applying it to everyone within a subset is always a stupid fucking argument.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

anyone pretending that "white privilege" isn't a precursor to being asked and expected to do things if you're white is outright lying

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

the main thing asked of privileged people is 'be vigilant for shitheads' which i think is not a lot to request.

privilege is a tool. it can be used simply for comfort, or it can additionally be used to help protect those without it from assholes.

i won't comment on the link except to note that there are shitheads everywhere, including among those who think they're helping. this does not mean that there are equal numbers of shitheads in every group.
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the problem is that the left is being more and more radicalized into those insane points of view. you don't have to look far to find more people espousing the same ideology. it's no different than how the right is becoming more and more radicalized into their own brand of insane points of view.

pretending that it isn't a problem is being complicit in the growing hatred of white people.

FLUFFYGERM posted...

the problem is that the left is being more and more radicalized into those insane points of view

i don't think this is true at all, and i don't think any evidence has been presented that supports this view.
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

anyone pretending that "white privilege" isn't a precursor to being asked and expected to do things if you're white is outright lying

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

the main thing asked of privileged people is 'be vigilant for shitheads' which i think is not a lot to request.

privilege is a tool. it can be used simply for comfort, or it can additionally be used to help protect those without it from assholes.

i won't comment on the link except to note that there are shitheads everywhere, including among those who think they're helping.

who are you to speak with regards to what is the "main thing" being asked of privileged people? i see a BLM leader in that link making ridiculous claims, and people online supporting those claims with all kinds of attempts at nuance and thinly veiled racism.

and if they are shitheads, why are they given a platform and why does it seem like a growing number of people agrees with them?

FLUFFYGERM posted...

the problem is that the left is being more and more radicalized into those insane points of view. you don't have to look far to find more people espousing the same ideology.

I have to look very far to find anyone suggesting anything like the contents of that shit article you posted.

Here's reality: YOU don't have to look far because you regularly scour the internet for that kind of garbage to raise your rage levels so you can post your fake outrage here. But for normal people who have normal interactions with other normal people, you're not seeing much of that in actual everyday life.
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

the problem is that the left is being more and more radicalized into those insane points of view

i don't think this is true at all, and i don't think any evidence has been presented that supports this view.

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

the problem is that the left is being more and more radicalized into those insane points of view.

I'm not sure I follow you about what's insane about this notion in the OP?

i'm responding to claims like "No one is saying you are obligated to do anything of the sort. Not everyone is in a position to help."

Also can we have some examples of how white privilege advantages can be used to help the disadvantaged?

To put it in terms of the hamfisted analogy of the OP, in the grocery store of society what is on the white people shelves and how can white people help minorities gain permanent access to white people goods?
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

what?

i'd rather not make this a topic about whether men are raped/assaulted/harassed or not (they certainly are, and at nontrivial rates) but the largest source of male victimization is one that is largely separated from modern society (prisons) and tangential to the discussion of whether the typical man in society is in a position where he is relatively shielded from being a victim of sexual violence compared to the typical woman.

it's also tangential to the much more important and illustrative point that these men are in a position to reduce womens' victimization simply by being more present and vigilant in situations that a smaller subset of toxic men take advantage of. that this is analogous to what white people can do for minorities--simply be more vigilant and speak up when they see something they know is wrong--was the point of the post. privilege is a tool, it can simply be used as comfort by not having to deal with a shitty thing, or it can be used as a tool to reduce that shitty thing (which doesn't really reduce comfort, aside from having the occasional uncomfortable conversation).

there are toxic women who take advantage of men too, of course. and women could be leaning in and helping their male friends not be taken advantage of by those women in ways their male peers really couldn't. which is, again, tangential to the point since i was framing the idea specifically for white women who aren't sure they agree with the idea of white privilege.

38% of sexual assaults are against men. Trivializing their experiences by ignoring prison rape or waving it away is pretty terrible, since men get worse punishment for crimes than women. It seems to me that it'd make more sense to teach people to be a good person rather than butter it up behind rhetoric about white skin.

And I've already shared an example of a BLM leader demanding much more than white people just calling out injustice when they see it. You're trying to present a moderate approach even though the trend I see doesn't seem moderate.

josifrees posted...

Also can we have some examples of how white privilege advantages can be used to help the disadvantaged?

To put it in terms of the hamfisted analogy of the OP, in the grocery store of society what is on the white people shelves and how can white people help minorities gain permanent access to white people goods?

They won't outright say it now because it's not yet popular or safe enough to say it, but it's along the lines of what that BLM leader said in that article I linked - redistribution of wealth and ongoing reparations.

FLUFFYGERM posted...

38% of sexual assaults are against men. Trivializing their experiences by ignoring prison rape or waving it away is pretty terrible, since men get worse punishment for crimes than women.

and it's even worse for black men! another good point.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

And I've already shared an example of a BLM leader demanding much more than white people just calling out injustice when they see it. You're trying to present a moderate approach even though the trend I see doesn't seem moderate.

That's because you're incorrectly defining isolated incidents of crazy people getting an article in a small-time local tabloid as "trends." Darkman124 is being reasonable and looking at the big picture. You're being insane and trying to take a narrow focus and make it mean more.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

who are you to speak with regards to what is the "main thing" being asked of privileged people?

i am a person with eyes and ears who uses them.

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Trivializing their experiences by ignoring prison rape or waving it away is pretty terrible

post is quite clear: not doing that. simply not talking about it in the context of explaining white privilege to white women, who are quite aware that their specific male peers, who are not prisoners, are getting sexually harassed and assaulted a lot less than they are.

i have long been a proponent of taking action to help male victims. but they're not relevant to the specific discussion ashlee and I were having, one that I think was productive.

FLUFFYGERM posted...

though the trend I see

I think you only see the trends you want to see, and you ignore any evidence that doesn't fit with the conclusions you started with.
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josifrees posted...

Also can we have some examples of how white privilege advantages can be used to help the disadvantaged?

I can think of a couple of times when I was in school when a black kid was being treated unfairly by an authority figure and no matter how much he pleaded his case it took me or one of my white friends speaking up for him before anyone would even begin to listen.
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Asherlee10 posted...

Wouldn't you say that most of us have advantages over others in some form or fashion?

A short person might have an easier time buying clothes that fit, for example.

Yes sure, but in terms of race I'm America it truly comes down to...

We are all humans. All of us have ups and downs.
White people can say I have issue A, B, and C

While I have a totally different set D, E, F.
But the problem is
Whatever I do or whatever life sets up, I will always always have one disadvantage hanging over me for being non-white. So it's everything, plus this constant
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Asherlee10 posted...

No one is saying you are obligated to do anything of the sort. Not everyone is in a position to help.

Bullshit, I'm always getting accusations and guilt-tripping hurled at me like it's somehow *all* my fault, and none of them give a single solid fuck about my own disadvantages on account of my being part of the lower class all my life. Quite the contrary actually, I have been quite often told that I deserve to suffer and get nothing because somehow that's "payback" or "justice" for me being born white.
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mario2000 posted...

primo example of someone aggressively misunderstanding a simple concept right here

I really don't give a fuck what your bigoted, yuppie ass thinks.
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