Current Events > It shouldn't be called "white privilege"

(+) Yeah! (+)

Maybe "minority disprivilege" might be more accurate
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:^)
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Agreed, white privilege is a turn off for actually talking about shit.
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White Advantage
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid
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I feel very ripped off. Point me to a state that will take care of me simply based on me being white please. So i can go there.
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it should be called wealth privilege, because it has nothing to do with white skin

"It shouldn't be called white privilege, because then that would make me part of the problem"
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What's the difference. Not having disadvantages most other people have is a privilege

Not all white people are privileged
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VandorLee posted...

I feel very ripped off. Point me to a state that will take care of me simply based on me being white please. So i can go there.

That isnt what White Privilege means.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

it should be called wealth privilege, because it has nothing to do with white skin

Except for that whole "minorities traditionally locked out of avenues that white people have used to accrue wealth" thing.
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White privilege is just it being OK to be racist towards white people.
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Anteaterking posted...

"It shouldn't be called white privilege, because then that would make me part of the problem"

Well isn't that why generalizing demographics is bad? Because not the whole of any demographic in any generalization is guilty of whatever the accusation is? Do people only understand how generalizations work when their agenda is being attacked?
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A_Good_Boy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

it should be called wealth privilege, because it has nothing to do with white skin

Except for that whole "minorities traditionally locked out of avenues that white people have used to accrue wealth" thing.

this has happened in other countries where it wasn't about white skin vs black skin. sometimes it's about class. sometimes it's about castes. sometimes it's about wealth. white skin isn't inherently privileged in any country. wealth is.

thanosibe posted...

Well isn't that why generalizing demographics is bad? Because not the whole of any demographic in any generalization is guilty of whatever the accusation is? Do people only understand how generalizations work when their agenda is being attacked?

This isn't about "accusing" anyone. It's just that people are sociologically uncomfortable with the idea that they benefit from a biased system, so any way that they can frame it that doesn't reflect their privilege allows them to just ignore the problem.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

it should be called wealth privilege, because it has nothing to do with white skin

Except for that whole "minorities traditionally locked out of avenues that white people have used to accrue wealth" thing.

this has happened in other countries where it wasn't about white skin vs black skin. sometimes it's about class. sometimes it's about castes. sometimes it's about wealth. white skin isn't inherently privileged in any country. wealth is.

And in the US it was about race.
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Anteaterking posted...

"It shouldn't be called white privilege, because then that would make me part of the problem"

"It should be called white privilege because that lets me vent my frustrations against a group of people."
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Anteaterking posted...

thanosibe posted...

Well isn't that why generalizing demographics is bad? Because not the whole of any demographic in any generalization is guilty of whatever the accusation is? Do people only understand how generalizations work when their agenda is being attacked?

This isn't about "accusing" anyone. It's just that people are sociologically uncomfortable with the idea that they benefit from a biased system, so any way that they can frame it that doesn't reflect their privilege allows them to just ignore the problem.

But that is the issue. Not all white people benefit from being white. Even if it's a small margin, I don't blame people for not wanting to be lumped in a group that gives a negative connotation for something that doesn't apply to them. It's not a hard concept to grasp. White privilege is proving to be a futile tactic in helping bridge racial gaps and has just become a passive aggressive way to attack people. Failed tactics need to be replaced with better tactics if we actually want some racial progress.
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thanosibe posted...

Not all white people benefit from being white

I'd say there are specific situations where being white doesn't give you specific benefits, but generally white people (in America at least) benefit from being white. It's almost never an overall negative. I grew up in an area that was majority hispanic and while I got occasional hatred from other students at school, the teachers were always great to me, and I was almost never hassled for my race by anyone other than kids. When my family later moved to a majority white area, I definitely wasn't at a disadvantage because of my skin (obviously).
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

every race has privileges

Yes. But there's no harm (or there shouldn't be any harm) in acknowledging that we clearly have the most and best privileges.
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That_Happened posted...

thanosibe posted...

Not all white people benefit from being white

I'd say there are specific situations where being white doesn't give you specific benefits, but generally white people (in America at least) benefit from being white. It's almost never an overall negative. I grew up in an area that was majority hispanic and while I got occasional hatred from other students at school, the teachers were always great to me, and I was almost never hassled for my race by anyone other than kids. When my family later moved to a majority white area, I definitely wasn't at a disadvantage because of my skin (obviously).

Well in your example in life, that's because all races are capable of hate, bigotry and/or racism. Children or adults. So anyone can be a victim no matter their skin color. And being the minority in a group whether you be white in a minority of another race, can cause those xenophobic feelings in people. I too grew up into my mid 20's as a racial minority, even my race isn't a minority in this country. I was many times treated with the same racism my friends received just by association to them. So no, I had no privilege in those instances. I was treated with disdain and consider guilty until proven innocent just like my friends were.

As I said above, it less about if there is indeed rampant white privilege, and it is how to address the issue. White privilege accusations aren't working. We're taking steps back in racial gaps because it's becoming negative. You might and probably can get people to understand that they may have advantages if you address in a manner that assumes you really want to make progress and just not try and make people feel bad for their skin color. Because well, that's what a lot of other races have felt in America's history.
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That_Happened posted...

27_Sandman_40 posted...

every race has privileges

Yes. But there's no harm (or there shouldn't be any harm) in acknowledging that we clearly have the most and best privileges.

Except we actually don't. When you look at any reasonable metric, Asian-Americans outperform white Americans. They have higher gradation rates, they have higher average income, they have better outcomes within the legal system (Asians make up 6% of the general population but only 1.5% of the prison population -- meanwhile whites are far closer to a representative number), etc. Oh, and Asian-Americans even OUTLIVE white Americans on average.

http://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/life-expectancy-by-re/

If anything, you should be asking why are Asians, as a minority group, so much superior to whites if "minority disadvantage" and "white privilege" supposedly keep other groups down? Part of the answer could involve the fact that Asians are less likely to believe in the concept and blame whites, instead taking it upon themselves to succeed -- even though minority policies in the US disproportionately hurt Asians *because* they're so successful, such as when it comes to college admissions.
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That_Happened posted...

thanosibe posted...

Not all white people benefit from being white

I'd say there are specific situations where being white doesn't give you specific benefits, but generally white people (in America at least) benefit from being white. It's almost never an overall negative. I grew up in an area that was majority hispanic and while I got occasional hatred from other students at school, the teachers were always great to me, and I was almost never hassled for my race by anyone other than kids. When my family later moved to a majority white area, I definitely wasn't at a disadvantage because of my skin (obviously).

The thing is, white people's "advantages" are just what life is like in a homogeneous society. "Not being discriminated against for your race" isn't a privilege, it's the default. You go to any racially homogenous country and you won't ever hear "gee I sure am thankful I don't get discriminated against for my race". It's an issue people in a minority group experience, not a privilege people in the majority group enjoy.
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Zeus posted...

If anything, you should be asking why are Asians, as a minority group, so much superior to whites if "minority disadvantage" and "white privilege" supposedly keep other groups down?

That's an easy answer. It's selection bias, and the history of each group's journey here. You'd see similar success in almost any group of people that chose to move halfway across the world to America, vs those who were brought here during slavery or through various wars.
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The privilege of being called a racist by people who knows nothing about you except the color of your skin.
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Medz1206 posted...

The privilege of being called a racist by people who knows nothing about you except the color of your skin.

On the internet.

I'm sure it's hurt your feelings just as much as it's hurt mine.
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Anteaterking posted...

"It shouldn't be called white privilege, because then that would make me part of the problem"

How so?
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weapon_d00d816 posted...

The thing is, white people's "advantages" are just what life is like in a homogeneous society. "Not being discriminated against for your race" isn't a privilege, it's the default. You go to any racially homogenous country and you won't ever hear "gee I sure am thankful I don't get discriminated against for my race". It's an issue people in a minority group experience, not a privilege people in the majority group enjoy.

Hello apartheid.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

"minorities traditionally locked out of avenues that white people have used to accrue wealth" thing.

Literally there's no avenue that exists like that at all in the US today.
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this could have been avoided if "White" people were never created, tbh. literally a color, not an ethnicity. why did immigrants from the British to the Irish ever subscribe to such a silly social construct?

nobody's ancestors can answer that today, but their descendants have the power through sheer numbers to decide what to do about it in the present. if that's the desire, anyway.

not sure who coined the term. I assume it was something that happened on a campus.
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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

but their descendants have the power through sheer numbers to decide what to do about it in the present.

Really? Because last I checked there's way more Asian people in the world than "white people".
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Howl posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

but their descendants have the power through sheer numbers to decide what to do about it in the present.

Really? Because last I checked there's way more Asian people in the world than "white people".

okay? what does that have to do with my point? and... why did you not address my point if you were going to quote me?
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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

not sure who coined the term. I assume it was something that happened on a campus.

It's original use was a bit different from how it is used today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

In his work, Allen maintained several points: that the "white race" was invented as a ruling class social control formation in the late seventeenth and early eighteenth century Anglo-American plantation colonies (principally Virginia and Maryland); that central to this process was the ruling-class plantation bourgeoisie conferring "white race" privileges on European-American working people; that these privileges were not only against the interests of African-Americans, they were also "poison," "ruinous," a baited hook, to the class interests of working people; that white supremacy, reinforced by the "white skin privilege," has been as the main retardant of working-class consciousness in the US; and that struggle for radical social change should direct principal efforts at challenging white supremacy and "white skin privileges".

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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

Howl posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

but their descendants have the power through sheer numbers to decide what to do about it in the present.

Really? Because last I checked there's way more Asian people in the world than "white people".

okay? what does that have to do with my point?

That every other race that far outnumbers that of white people are the ones with the power to decide such an issue.
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Howl posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

"minorities traditionally locked out of avenues that white people have used to accrue wealth" thing.

Literally there's no avenue that exists like that at all in the US today.

Even if this was true,
1. the generations of minorities that were locked out still affect today's society
2. just because the laws have changed doesn't mean there was a sudden rush of minorities to every corner of the cultures of success.

For instance, all white country clubs. One day they open their doors to people of all colors. It's not like the club is instantly 15% hispanic, 12% black, 5% asian, and so on. The people who know about the club, the people who get referred to the club, the people who have an "in" at the club are still going to be almost all white. The privilege doesn't instantly disappear just because the rules changed.
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Howl posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

Howl posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

but their descendants have the power through sheer numbers to decide what to do about it in the present.

Really? Because last I checked there's way more Asian people in the world than "white people".

okay? what does that have to do with my point?

That every other race that far outnumbers that of white people are the ones with the power to decide such an issue.

the context went over your head because your responses have got nothing to do with my point. try quoting the other parts of my post.
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That_Happened posted...

Howl posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

"minorities traditionally locked out of avenues that white people have used to accrue wealth" thing.

Literally there's no avenue that exists like that at all in the US today.

Even if this was true,
1. the generations of minorities that were locked out still affect today's society
2. just because the laws have changed doesn't mean there was a sudden rush of minorities to every corner of the cultures of success.

For instance, all white country clubs. One day they open their doors to people of all colors. It's not like the club is instantly 15% hispanic, 12% black, 5% asian, and so on. The people who know about the club, the people who get referred to the club, the people who have an "in" at the club are still going to be almost all white. The privilege doesn't instantly disappear just because the rules changed.

That's a better argument for communism or socialism money knows money and likes to hangout with money. Jimbo from the trailerpark is about as likely as Leeroy from the pjs or Jesus from the Barrio to be invited to join.
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ZeroX91 posted...

That's a better argument for communism or socialism money knows money and likes to hangout with money. Jimbo from the trailerpark is about as likely as Leeroy from the pjs or Jesus from the Barrio to be invited to join.

I'm just using the country club as an example. Most businesses, clubs and organizations whether they be fortune 500 companies or startup businesses in the boonies, are full of white guys and "knowing the right people" is the best way to get into those. And most of the people we know tend to be the same race as us.
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That_Happened posted...

ZeroX91 posted...

That's a better argument for communism or socialism money knows money and likes to hangout with money. Jimbo from the trailerpark is about as likely as Leeroy from the pjs or Jesus from the Barrio to be invited to join.

I'm just using the country club as an example. Most businesses, clubs and organizations whether they be fortune 500 companies or startup businesses in the boonies, are full of white guys and "knowing the right people" is the best way to get into those. And most of the people we know tend to be the same race as us.

But knowing the right people isn't tied to race it's tied to the local economy and social scene. If a straight white dude tried to open a barbershop in Harlem he would face the same issues as a gay black man trying to open a sports bar in the bible belt.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

it should be called wealth privilege, because it has nothing to do with white skin

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ZeroX91 posted...

That_Happened posted...

ZeroX91 posted...

That's a better argument for communism or socialism money knows money and likes to hangout with money. Jimbo from the trailerpark is about as likely as Leeroy from the pjs or Jesus from the Barrio to be invited to join.

I'm just using the country club as an example. Most businesses, clubs and organizations whether they be fortune 500 companies or startup businesses in the boonies, are full of white guys and "knowing the right people" is the best way to get into those. And most of the people we know tend to be the same race as us.

But knowing the right people isn't tied to race it's tied to the local economy and social scene. If a straight white dude tried to open a barbershop in Harlem he would face the same issues as a gay black man trying to open a sports bar in the bible belt.

the key difference is that the vast majority of the US is, in the context of this analogy, more similar to the bible belt than to harlem
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ZeroX91 posted...

That_Happened posted...

ZeroX91 posted...

That's a better argument for communism or socialism money knows money and likes to hangout with money. Jimbo from the trailerpark is about as likely as Leeroy from the pjs or Jesus from the Barrio to be invited to join.

I'm just using the country club as an example. Most businesses, clubs and organizations whether they be fortune 500 companies or startup businesses in the boonies, are full of white guys and "knowing the right people" is the best way to get into those. And most of the people we know tend to be the same race as us.

But knowing the right people isn't tied to race it's tied to the local economy and social scene. If a straight white dude tried to open a barbershop in Harlem he would face the same issues as a gay black man trying to open a sports bar in the bible belt.

But considering the local economies and social scenes are still pretty segregated means it is at least somewhat tied to race.
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gamepimp12 posted...

ZeroX91 posted...

That_Happened posted...

ZeroX91 posted...

That's a better argument for communism or socialism money knows money and likes to hangout with money. Jimbo from the trailerpark is about as likely as Leeroy from the pjs or Jesus from the Barrio to be invited to join.

I'm just using the country club as an example. Most businesses, clubs and organizations whether they be fortune 500 companies or startup businesses in the boonies, are full of white guys and "knowing the right people" is the best way to get into those. And most of the people we know tend to be the same race as us.

But knowing the right people isn't tied to race it's tied to the local economy and social scene. If a straight white dude tried to open a barbershop in Harlem he would face the same issues as a gay black man trying to open a sports bar in the bible belt.

But considering the local economies and social scenes are still pretty segregated means it is at least somewhat tied to race.

Exactly.
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It doesn't help that some people use the term in a derogatory way. My first introduction to the term was when one of my classmates misused it to say that I didn't really earn my place at our university. I didn't come around to accepting the term until several years later.

Now I'm questioning its effectiveness going forward. It seems to inspire a defensive reaction from many White people, even when it's used correctly. Maybe it isn't communicating what we want it to communicate in the clearest manner possible. Nobody wants to hear the word "privilege" used to describe them when they feel overworked and underpaid (https://thecurrentmoment.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/productivity-and-real-wages.jpg).

Maybe we should use a different word that doesn't come with all that connotational baggage.
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Polycosm posted...

It doesn't help that some people use the term in a derogatory way. My first introduction to the term was when one of my classmates misused it to say that I didn't really earn my place at our university. I didn't come around to accepting the term until several years later.

Now I'm questing its effectiveness going forward. It seems to inspire a defensive reaction from many White people, even when it's used correctly. Maybe it isn't communicating what we want it to communicate in the clearest manner possible. Nobody wants to hear the word "privilege" used to describe them when they feel overworked and underpaid (https://thecurrentmoment.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/productivity-and-real-wages.jpg).

Maybe we should use a different word that doesn't come with all that connotational baggage.

Especially when most of the white people possibly hearing this, and actually care to not be lumped in this category with the rich 1%, are overworked and underpaid. Making someone feel guilty for working hard their whole life because someone else has it harder doesn't make any progress. It's like saying "roof privilege" when trying to point out the disparity for the homeless. As if every homeless person did nothing to get themselves there and people that pay mortgage/rent got that dwelling handed to them on a silver platter.

If being white does indeed present advantages over other races than white people then point out what can be done to change these advantages or even the odds for other races rather than just keep saying white people have magical powers. Because it's nothing but steps back and not steps forward.
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thanosibe posted...

As if every homeless person did nothing to get themselves there and people that pay mortgage/rent got that dwelling handed to them on a silver platter.

If being white does indeed present advantages over other races than white people then point out what can be done to change these advantages or even the odds for other races rather than just keep saying white people have magical powers.

Two problems with this. 1. You're severely misunderstanding what is meant by white privilege, and I think you're doing it on purpose. It has nothing to do with silver platters or magical powers. 2. Even if this was presented to me in the nicest way possible, I'm not giving up my privilege. I know I'm at an advantage to other people, but I also realize I have bills to pay and a future to start, and I'm not in a position where I have a ton of extra privilege to hand out. So I don't see a situation where *any* term that points out white people have advantages, or minorities have disadvantages, being taken well by a white majority. It doesn't bother me when I hear it because I know it's true, but I'm also not giving up my position.
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That_Happened posted...

thanosibe posted...

As if every homeless person did nothing to get themselves there and people that pay mortgage/rent got that dwelling handed to them on a silver platter.

If being white does indeed present advantages over other races than white people then point out what can be done to change these advantages or even the odds for other races rather than just keep saying white people have magical powers.

Two problems with this. 1. You're severely misunderstanding what is meant by white privilege, and I think you're doing it on purpose. It has nothing to do with silver platters or magical powers. 2. Even if this was presented to me in the nicest way possible, I'm not giving up my privilege. I know I'm at an advantage to other people, but I also realize I have bills to pay and a future to start, and I'm not in a position where I have a ton of extra privilege to hand out. So I don't see a situation where *any* term that points out white people have advantages, or minorities have disadvantages, being taken well by a white majority. It doesn't bother me when I hear it because I know it's true, but I'm also not giving up my position.

The entire point is that being white offers no actual advantage. Being a minority in certain circumstances can be disadvantgeous, but being white will never prove to be an inherent advantage especially for the vast vast majority of people.
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