Current Events > DeVos: College sexual assault enforcement is a failure and will be replaced

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/09/07/protesters-gather-anticipating-devos-speech-on-campus-sexual-assault/?utm_term=.4dd1fd2dce41

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos vowed Thursday to replace what she branded the “failed system” of campus sexual assault enforcement, to ensure fairness for victims and the accused.

“Instead of working with schools … ,” DeVos said, “the prior administration weaponized the Office for Civil Rights.”

“We must do better because the current approach isn’t working,” she said.

DeVos spoke to about 100 invited guests at George Mason University, where protesters had gathered outside, worried that she would announce changes to the way sexual violence cases are handled on campuses across the country.

“One rape is one too many,” DeVos said firmly, and “not one more survivor will be silenced. We will not abandon anyone.” As a mother, she said she has sympathy for parents whose children are victims of sexual misconduct. “I cannot imagine receiving that call.”

But she also repeatedly emphasized the rights of students who are accused, saying one person denied due process is one too many, and was harshly critical of the system established by the Obama administration, saying it had failed too many schools. “School administrators tell me it has run amok.”

She said the department would go through a formal process seeking public input in order to replace the current system with a more effective and just system.

“Every survivor of sexual misconduct must be taken seriously,” she said. “Every student accused of sexual misconduct must know that guilt is not predetermined.

“These are non-negotiable principles.”

DeVos criticized a key element of Obama’s policy: that schools use a standard known as “preponderance of the evidence” when weighing sexual misconduct cases.

“Washington dictated that schools must use the lowest standard of proof … it’s no wonder so many call these proceedings ‘kangaroo courts.’ ”

DeVos said those flawed approaches to sexual misconduct cases are bad for all involved, especially if they lead to litigation. “Survivors aren’t well served when they are re-traumatized by appeal after appeal.”

Amen.
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in other words, it's about to get a lot worse, just like the education system

par the course for a rapist as a president
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Yeah I can't think of a reason this is bad at all. Still don't like the old bitch but this is good.
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DeVos is awful and shouldn't have the job she does, but this doesn't appear to be unreasonable.
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Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

Yeah I can't think of a reason this is bad at all. Still don't like the old bitch but this is good.

NadYobWoc posted...

DeVos is awful and shouldn't have the job she does, but this doesn't appear to be unreasonable.

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“We must do better because the current approach isn’t working,” she said.

DeVos spoke to about 100 invited guests at George Mason University, where protesters had gathered outside, worried that she would announce changes to the way sexual violence cases are handled on campuses across the country.

“One rape is one too many,” DeVos said firmly, and “not one more survivor will be silenced. We will not abandon anyone.” As a mother, she said she has sympathy for parents whose children are victims of sexual misconduct. “I cannot imagine receiving that call.”

But she also repeatedly emphasized the rights of students who are accused, saying one person denied due process is one too many, and was harshly critical of the system established by the Obama administration, saying it had failed too many schools. “School administrators tell me it has run amok.”

That.... Sounds totally reasonable.
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Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?
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Hopefully this is a true case of stopped clock syndrome and not underhanded shit.
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Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

Yeah I can't think of a reason this is bad at all. Still don't like the old bitch but this is good.

The fact that Devos is doing it is pretty suspect. There is definitely lots of room for improvement on this issue, but I have no confidence in her ability to fix it. Her saying all of this and the results of her actions are two different things.
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The "rape and sexual assault are problems women in first-world countries want to pretend they have" Admiral
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Isn't the burden of proof for sexual crimes still beyond a reasonable doubt in the courts? Preponderance of evidence seems too low for something that serious no matter the venue.
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Didn't know DeVos was capable of doing something decent in education
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Bu I heard rape doesn't happen on college campuses
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hockeybub89 posted...

Bu I heard rape doesn't happen on college campuses

From the voices in your head again?
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lderivedx posted...

Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?

Yes, but that may be a good thing. It depends. We will see.
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RebelElite791 posted...

The "rape and sexual assault are problems women in first-world countries want to pretend they have" Admiral

You forgot to mention how this suddenly becomes a serious issue when the perpetrator is a Muslim refugee.
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TommyG663513 posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

The "rape and sexual assault are problems women in first-world countries want to pretend they have" Admiral

You forgot to mention how this suddenly becomes a serious issue when the perpetrator is a Muslim refugee.

You're replying to Rebel's made up quote seriously again.
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too late for all the innocent people wrongly accused though.

The Admiral posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Bu I heard rape doesn't happen on college campuses

From the voices in your head again?

I hope you're not in my head.
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The Admiral posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Bu I heard rape doesn't happen on college campuses

From the voices in your head again?

Probably from the football coaches
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hockeybub89 posted...

The Admiral posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Bu I heard rape doesn't happen on college campuses

From the voices in your head again?

I hope you're not in my head.

I lol'd

the policy needs reworking, but it doesn't seem to address the reason why colleges ended up being given the right to do the investigations and court stuff (namely that a lot of cops and lawyers turned a blind eye to it and ignored campuses)
i'd like to see changes, but given devos' track record, looks like we'll be back to the days of forcing rape victims to sign a gag order or be expelled
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TommyG663513 posted...

lderivedx posted...

Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?

Yes, but that may be a good thing. It depends. We will see.

I'm not sure that the solution to something that's horribly under-reported is to make it even less worth someone's time to report it. "Beyond reasonable doubt" is an extremely high standard of evidence for sexual misconduct because of its nature: it's often one person's word against another.

She's absolutely right in that we need better support for victims, but it really sounds like she's courting the "i'm terrified of being falsely accused of rape" crowd while saying generalities that nobody in their right mind would argue with. I hope I'm wrong about that.
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Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

Yeah I can't think of a reason this is bad at all. Still don't like the old bitch but this is good.

Same.
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lderivedx posted...

Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?

Sure, if you think convicting people with little or no proof is justice.

prince_leo posted...

the policy needs reworking, but it doesn't seem to address the reason why colleges ended up being given the right to do the investigations and court stuff (namely that a lot of cops and lawyers turned a blind eye to it and ignored campuses)
i'd like to see changes, but given devos' track record, looks like we'll be back to the days of forcing rape victims to sign a gag order or be expelled

This is what I expect as well. She's definitely the type that would prioritize school reputation over the victim

Why the hell would you even consider public input
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What I don't get is how LAW AND ORDER the whole administration is, and suddenly when it comes to sexual assault it's all "hey guys, we gotta make sure we do every possible thing to make sure the people we put away are bad"

Like, it's great to be thorough, but it's odd to pick and choose what gets real investigations and 'innocent before guilty' while other things get fucked over
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Hinakuluiau posted...

What I don't get is how LAW AND ORDER the whole administration is, and suddenly when it comes to sexual assault it's all "hey guys, we gotta make sure we do every possible thing to make sure the people we put away are bad"

Like, it's great to be thorough, but it's odd to pick and choose what gets real investigations and 'innocent before guilty' while other things get fucked over

Very true.

I mean, our justice systems so fucked up as it is there's really no fixing it without a straight overhaul.

You bring up a good question as to why this though.
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lderivedx posted...

Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?

Yes. What's your point?
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The Admiral posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

The "rape and sexual assault are problems women in first-world countries want to pretend they have" Admiral

You forgot to mention how this suddenly becomes a serious issue when the perpetrator is a Muslim refugee.

You're replying to Rebel's made up quote seriously again.

So when I had a screenshot of that years ago on my old computer you cried about that, now you claim it's made-up? Lol. Okay pal.
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lderivedx posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

lderivedx posted...

Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?

Yes, but that may be a good thing. It depends. We will see.

I'm not sure that the solution to something that's horribly under-reported is to make it even less worth someone's time to report it. "Beyond reasonable doubt" is an extremely high standard of evidence for sexual misconduct because of its nature: it's often one person's word against another.

She's absolutely right in that we need better support for victims, but it really sounds like she's courting the "i'm terrified of being falsely accused of rape" crowd while saying generalities that nobody in their right mind would argue with. I hope I'm wrong about that.

Well yeah I very much agree with your suspicion.

I mean, I do think people being falsely accused and punished is an issue that needs to be addressed, but I would still think that people sexually assaulting other people and getting away with it is the bigger issue.

It seems difficult to fairly address both issues at once. Even the current system that gives the accuser the benefit of the doubt seems to have failings in helping victims.

I like the general idea she is presenting, but will remain very skeptical until I see what she is actually doing about it.
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lderivedx posted...

Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?

In literally no way whatsoever does it say that. Title IX has nothing to do with criminal charges. It was intended to be used to protect alleged victims, but it's being used as a cudgel to destroy innocent people.
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darkjedilink posted...

lderivedx posted...

Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?

In literally no way whatsoever does it say that. Title IX has nothing to do with criminal charges. It was intended to be used to protect alleged victims, but it's being used as a cudgel to destroy innocent people.

Um no it will absolutely make it more difficult to convict people within the schools disciplinary system.

No one ITT has really been talking about the US court system.

Schools can't destroy innocent people the same way criminal court can. The worst actual discipline they can give is expulsion.
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TommyG663513 posted...

Schools can't destroy innocent people the same way criminal court can. The worst actual discipline they can give is expulsion.

An expulsion is a pretty devastating consequence. That is absolutely nothing something that should be doled out lightly. This measure is long overdue.

The solution to preventing drunken college sex -- which is essentially what most of these college "rapes" are -- is better education on campuses. Encourage people (i.e. girls) to have a buddy before they go out, make sure someone in their dorm/apt knows where they are, and encourage fellow students to step in if they have any hesitation that someone might be too drunk for their own good. Stop with this myth that women don't enjoy drinking and hooking up, and stop treating women as the victims by default.
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The Admiral posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Schools can't destroy innocent people the same way criminal court can. The worst actual discipline they can give is expulsion.

An expulsion is a pretty devastating consequence. That is absolutely nothing something that should be doled out lightly. This measure is long overdue.

The solution to preventing drunken college sex -- which is essentially what most of these college "rapes" are -- is better education on campuses. Encourage people (i.e. girls) to have a buddy before they go out, make sure someone in their dorm/apt knows where they are, and encourage fellow students to step in if they have any hesitation that someone might be too drunk for their own good. Stop with this myth that women don't enjoy drinking and hooking up, and stop treating women as the victims by default.

That's why the issues so fucking mixed for me.

I'm way too biased because I've partied so much at SDSU and UCSB it's pretty much the norm here still. You get out of college and start going downtown or to PB (Pacific Beach) which is a huge strip of bars and shit gets wild.

Miles Teller just got arrested here like a month ago. Visitors really don't understand when we say PB is its own world... unless they went to UCSB or ASU.

Between bottle rats and are bar scenes the majority of our population that's under 30 who party are hooking up drunk nightly.
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TommyG663513 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

lderivedx posted...

Isn't this saying it'll be more difficult to convict of sexual misconduct?

In literally no way whatsoever does it say that. Title IX has nothing to do with criminal charges. It was intended to be used to protect alleged victims, but it's being used as a cudgel to destroy innocent people.

Um no it will absolutely make it more difficult to convict people within the schools disciplinary system.

No one ITT has really been talking about the US court system.

Schools can't destroy innocent people the same way criminal court can. The worst actual discipline they can give is expulsion.

And, with Title IX, they can and have expelled students based on nothing but the word of a woman that police have stated wasn't sexually assaulted.

Explain to me how that is fair in any way.
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