far leftism for the collapse there

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Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:08:37 AM #1:	http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/26/news/economy/venezuela-economic-crisis/index.html Venezuela is running out of food. Hospitals are overcrowded with sick children while doctors don't have enough medicine or X-ray machines. Electricity isn't guaranteed. About the only thing Venezuela has in abundance is chaos. The economy has spiraled toward collapse, and a humanitarian crisis has plunged hordes into needless sickness and starvation. The country is also in the grip of a political crisis. President Nicolas Maduro has called a referendum for Sunday that his critics say could erode the last vestiges of democracy. It would allow him to rewrite the constitution and replace the National Assembly, which is controlled by the opposition, with an entirely new legislative body filled with his hand-picked nominees. Venezuela was once the richest country in Latin America. Here's how it fell apart. Venezuela holds the world's largest supply of crude oil -- what once seemed like an endless gusher of cash. Now the government is running out of money, prices are soaring, and nobody knows how much worse it will get. Venezuela was a powerhouse of South America in the 1990s. Former President Bill Clinton made it his first stop on a trip to the region in 1997. But inequality grew extreme. A small elite class controlled everything while the increasingly impoverished masses fumed. The country turned toward socialism in 1999 and elected Hugo Chavez president. He championed populism, cut ties with the United States and cozied up to China and Russia, both of which loaned Venezuela billions. Chavez ruled until his death in 2013, and is still seen today as a hero for the poor. But his government far overspent on welfare programs, and it fixed prices for everything. It declared farmlands state property and then abandoned them, and instead made the nation dependent on selling its oil abroad. Before he died, Chavez picked Maduro to succeed him, and Maduro kept up the regime's practices. His administration also stopped publishing any reliable statistics, including on economic growth and inflation. It accepted millions in bribes for construction projects and racked up debts that it is still struggling to pay. With oil prices low and the government's cash dwindling, price controls have become a huge problem. The state still subsidizes food far below normal prices to appease the poor. Maduro has printed money at breakneck speed, and the bolivar has plunged in value, wiping out jobs and income. At the same time, Maduro's hostility to foreign business has created a corporate exodus. Pepsi (PEP), General Motors (GM)and United (UAL) are just some of the companies that have cut back or left entirely. Unemployment in Venezuela this year could reach 25%, according to the International Monetary Fund. Inflation is only getting worse. In 2010, one American dollar was worth about eight bolivars. Today it's worth over 8,000 bolivars, according to the unofficial exchange rate, which many Venezuelans use because government rates are considered far overvalued. Prices could rise an astounding 2,000% next year. To keep up, Maduro has raised the minimum wage three times this year. That has provided a little short-term relief to the poor, but experts say it creates long-term pain in the form of a worthless currency. "The economy is really chaotic. It's totally collapsed. It's at the point of no return," says Alberto Ramos, an economist who heads Latin America research at Goldman Sachs. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883755403] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/26/news/economy/venezuela-economic-crisis/index.html Venezuela is running out of food. Hospitals are overcrowded with sick children while doctors don't have enough medicine or X-ray machines. Electricity isn't guaranteed. About the only thing Venezuela has in abundance is chaos. The economy has spiraled toward collapse, and a humanitarian crisis has plunged hordes into needless sickness and starvation. The country is also in the grip of a political crisis. President Nicolas Maduro has called a referendum for Sunday that his critics say could erode the last vestiges of democracy. It would allow him to rewrite the constitution and replace the National Assembly, which is controlled by the opposition, with an entirely new legislative body filled with his hand-picked nominees. Venezuela was once the richest country in Latin America. Here's how it fell apart. Venezuela holds the world's largest supply of crude oil -- what once seemed like an endless gusher of cash. Now the government is running out of money, prices are soaring, and nobody knows how much worse it will get. Venezuela was a powerhouse of South America in the 1990s. Former President Bill Clinton made it his first stop on a trip to the region in 1997. But inequality grew extreme. A small elite class controlled everything while the increasingly impoverished masses fumed. The country turned toward socialism in 1999 and elected Hugo Chavez president. He championed populism, cut ties with the United States and cozied up to China and Russia, both of which loaned Venezuela billions. Chavez ruled until his death in 2013, and is still seen today as a hero for the poor. But his government far overspent on welfare programs, and it fixed prices for everything. It declared farmlands state property and then abandoned them, and instead made the nation dependent on selling its oil abroad. Before he died, Chavez picked Maduro to succeed him, and Maduro kept up the regime's practices. His administration also stopped publishing any reliable statistics, including on economic growth and inflation. It accepted millions in bribes for construction projects and racked up debts that it is still struggling to pay. With oil prices low and the government's cash dwindling, price controls have become a huge problem. The state still subsidizes food far below normal prices to appease the poor. Maduro has printed money at breakneck speed, and the bolivar has plunged in value, wiping out jobs and income. At the same time, Maduro's hostility to foreign business has created a corporate exodus. Pepsi (PEP), General Motors (GM)and United (UAL) are just some of the companies that have cut back or left entirely. Unemployment in Venezuela this year could reach 25%, according to the International Monetary Fund. Inflation is only getting worse. In 2010, one American dollar was worth about eight bolivars. Today it's worth over 8,000 bolivars, according to the unofficial exchange rate, which many Venezuelans use because government rates are considered far overvalued. Prices could rise an astounding 2,000% next year. To keep up, Maduro has raised the minimum wage three times this year. That has provided a little short-term relief to the poor, but experts say it creates long-term pain in the form of a worthless currency. "The economy is really chaotic. It's totally collapsed. It's at the point of no return," says Alberto Ramos, an economist who heads Latin America research at Goldman Sachs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:08:59 AM #2:	Nearly 11,500 infants died in 2016, a 30% rise from the prior year. Malaria cases jumped to 240,000, a 76% rise from 2015. "Even at the hospital there is still no food for the patients," says Dr. Huniades Urbina-Medina, head of pediatrics at Hospital de Niños J.M. de los Rios, a children's hospital in Caracas. "We still don't have medicines, X-rays, CT scans -- nothing." It's not just food and medicine. Venezuelans sometimes must ration electricity and water during droughts. The crises have literally pushed Venezuela's upper and middle classes out, creating a severe brain drain. Nearly 2 million Venezuelans have left the country since 1999, according to research by Tomas Paez, a sociology professor at the Central University of Venezuela in Caracas. Venezuela is a country of only 30 million people. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883755420] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>Nearly 11,500 infants died in 2016, a 30% rise from the prior year. Malaria cases jumped to 240,000, a 76% rise from 2015. "Even at the hospital there is still no food for the patients," says Dr. Huniades Urbina-Medina, head of pediatrics at Hospital de Niños J.M. de los Rios, a children's hospital in Caracas. "We still don't have medicines, X-rays, CT scans -- nothing." It's not just food and medicine. Venezuelans sometimes must ration electricity and water during droughts. The crises have literally pushed Venezuela's upper and middle classes out, creating a severe brain drain. Nearly 2 million Venezuelans have left the country since 1999, according to research by Tomas Paez, a sociology professor at the Central University of Venezuela in Caracas. Venezuela is a country of only 30 million people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
frozenshock 07/28/17 11:10:06 AM #3:	Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots --- I don't hate people, people hate me. <cite>frozenshock posted [p:883755492] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
John_Galt 07/28/17 11:10:49 AM #4:	I read an article the other day where they ask you to bring your own supplies to the hospital Lol socialism what a joke --- Who is John Galt? <cite>John_Galt posted [p:883755529] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>I read an article the other day where they ask you to bring your own supplies to the hospital Lol socialism what a joke</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:11:14 AM #5:	The decreasing value of their oil wouldn't have been so devastating if they hadn't overspent on welfare programs, if they hadn't fixed prices for everything, if they hadn't declared farmlands public property and then misused them as governments are apt to do, if they hadn't abandoned sound statistic on economic growth and inflation, and if they hadn't printed money at an astounding rate. All of that put the country into a death spiral, and anyone who had anything worth losing abandoned ship. Companies, the middle class, the upper middle class, professionals, entrepreneurs, etc, have all been leaving. You cannot abuse the tax payers and expect them to stay. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883755561] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>The decreasing value of their oil wouldn't have been so devastating if they hadn't overspent on welfare programs, if they hadn't fixed prices for everything, if they hadn't declared farmlands public property and then misused them as governments are apt to do, if they hadn't abandoned sound statistic on economic growth and inflation, and if they hadn't printed money at an astounding rate. All of that put the country into a death spiral, and anyone who had anything worth losing abandoned ship. Companies, the middle class, the upper middle class, professionals, entrepreneurs, etc, have all been leaving. You cannot abuse the tax payers and expect them to stay.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
E32005 07/28/17 11:12:02 AM #6:	It's true so... --- http://i.imgur.com/LAvnefi.gif http://i.imgur.com/6kW9fXL.gif <cite>E32005 posted [p:883755618] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>It's true so...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:12:13 AM #7:	frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883755627] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 07/28/17 11:13:42 AM #8:	Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:883755704] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:13:56 AM #9:	http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/27/investing/delta-venezuela/index.html Yep, even the last airlines are pulling out of Venezuela. This is in addition to the American government telling the government officials at the embassy there to send their family members home. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883755720] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/27/investing/delta-venezuela/index.html Yep, even the last airlines are pulling out of Venezuela. This is in addition to the American government telling the government officials at the embassy there to send their family members home.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:14:16 AM #10:	OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. There is no meaningful difference. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883755738] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> There is no meaningful difference.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AlephZero 07/28/17 11:16:06 AM #11:	bernie's socialist paradise --- "There is value in segregation." - qwertyman2002 01001100 01010101 01000101 00100000 00110100 00110000 00110010 <cite>AlephZero posted [p:883755844] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>bernie's socialist paradise</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 07/28/17 11:16:52 AM #12:	Transcendentia posted... There is no meaningful difference. There is or there wouldn't be successful countries with the socialist ideas the left wants to implement that are doing well. I mean, you just have to look a little bit to the north of America to see that it can work. :u --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:883755873] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote>There is no meaningful difference.</quote> There is or there wouldn't be successful countries with the socialist ideas the left wants to implement that are doing well. I mean, you just have to look a little bit to the north of America to see that it can work. :u</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 07/28/17 11:18:02 AM #13:	To be fair CNN isn't socialist They have the same political ideology as Hillary Clinton --- Shenmue II = best game of all time Shenmue = 2nd best game of all time <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:883755943] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>To be fair CNN isn't socialist They have the same political ideology as Hillary Clinton</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 07/28/17 11:18:17 AM #14:	CNN is not leftist, I don't know why the surprise of the topic title. Here are leftist critiques of Venezuela. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/venezuela-crisis-maduro-opposition-violence-elections-economy https://jacobinmag.com/2016/06/venezuela-emergency-lines-chavez-mud-inflation-oil --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:883755960] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>CNN is not leftist, I don't know why the surprise of the topic title. Here are leftist critiques of Venezuela. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/venezuela-crisis-maduro-opposition-violence-elections-economy https://jacobinmag.com/2016/06/venezuela-emergency-lines-chavez-mud-inflation-oil</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:18:19 AM #15:	OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... There is no meaningful difference. There is or there wouldn't be successful countries with the socialist ideas the left wants to implement that are doing well. I mean, you just have to look a little bit to the north of America to see that it can work. :u https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-21/canada-s-housing-bubble-will-burst Working so well! :V Anyway, enough of your gimmick posts. * <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883755962] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote>There is no meaningful difference.</quote> There is or there wouldn't be successful countries with the socialist ideas the left wants to implement that are doing well. I mean, you just have to look a little bit to the north of America to see that it can work. :u</quote> https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-21/canada-s-housing-bubble-will-burst Working so well! :V Anyway, enough of your gimmick posts. *</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The23rdMagus 07/28/17 11:18:41 AM #16:	Transcendentia posted... OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. There is no meaningful difference. Except this one became corrupt and poorly managed. --- ~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~ Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul Harvey <cite>The23rdMagus posted [p:883755989] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> There is no meaningful difference.</quote> Except this one became corrupt and poorly managed.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:19:05 AM #17:	Damn_Underscore posted... To be fair CNN isn't socialist They have the same political ideology as Hillary Clinton Antifar posted... CNN is not leftist, I don't know why the surprise of the topic title. They've been leaning pretty left as of late, especially during the course of the previous election. For them to call it out this brazenly, without sugar coating all of the leftist policies listed within, is a good thing and shows that they're smelling the coffee. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883756007] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Damn_Underscore posted...</cite> <quote>To be fair CNN isn't socialist They have the same political ideology as Hillary Clinton</quote> <cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>CNN is not leftist, I don't know why the surprise of the topic title.</quote> They've been leaning pretty left as of late, especially during the course of the previous election. For them to call it out this brazenly, without sugar coating all of the leftist policies listed within, is a good thing and shows that they're smelling the coffee.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
coolboy11 07/28/17 11:19:58 AM #18:	I love how bad left governments always have to be pointed out as left wing. bad Right governments are just bad not because of Right Wingism of course like there aren't a shit ton of trash right leaning governments in much of the world. --- Sigs are boring <cite>coolboy11 posted [p:883756043] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>I love how bad left governments always have to be pointed out as left wing. bad Right governments are just bad not because of Right Wingism of course like there aren't a shit ton of trash right leaning governments in much of the world.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 07/28/17 11:20:24 AM #19:	Transcendentia posted... https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-21/canada-s-housing-bubble-will-burstWorking so well! :V Anyway, enough of your gimmick posts. * A housing bubble "bursting" like this opinion piece suggests isn't anywhere near what is happening in Venezuela. Get a grip. :v You probably didn't even read that article, you just googled "socialist problems in Canada" and posted what you found first. --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:883756062] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote>https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-21/canada-s-housing-bubble-will-burstWorking so well! :V Anyway, enough of your gimmick posts. *</quote> A housing bubble "bursting" like this opinion piece suggests isn't anywhere near what is happening in Venezuela. Get a grip. :v You probably didn't even read that article, you just googled "socialist problems in Canada" and posted what you found first.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sativa_Rose 07/28/17 11:20:31 AM #20:	It seems to be very common for a nation that nationalizes a major industry (particularly oil) to squander most of the money it gains from it instead of putting it into long term investments, and then when that industry falters, the country suffers tremendously. --- I may not go down in history, but I will go down on your sister. <cite>Sativa_Rose posted [p:883756071] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>It seems to be very common for a nation that nationalizes a major industry (particularly oil) to squander most of the money it gains from it instead of putting it into long term investments, and then when that industry falters, the country suffers tremendously.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 07/28/17 11:21:10 AM #21:	Sativa_Rose posted... It seems to be very common for a nation that nationalizes a major industry (particularly oil) to squander most of the money it gains from it instead of putting it into long term investments, and then when that industry falters, the country suffers tremendously. --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:883756113] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote>It seems to be very common for a nation that nationalizes a major industry (particularly oil) to squander most of the money it gains from it instead of putting it into long term investments, and then when that industry falters, the country suffers tremendously.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Malcolm_Caradoc 07/28/17 11:22:28 AM #22:	Is Scandinavia collapsing No Then shut the hell up Proudclad, go piss away your immortal soul on some other forum CNN isnt left wing, Democrats arent left wing, and nobody wants to turn the USA into a Bolivarian autocratic shithole anyway --- M. <cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted [p:883756178] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>Is Scandinavia collapsing No Then shut the hell up Proudclad, go piss away your immortal soul on some other forum CNN isnt left wing, Democrats arent left wing, and nobody wants to turn the USA into a Bolivarian autocratic shithole anyway</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:23:21 AM #23:	The23rdMagus posted... Transcendentia posted... OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. There is no meaningful difference. Except this one became corrupt and poorly managed. You cannot abuse the tax payers to the point of suffering brain drain, and then expect that you can continue printing money and overspending on welfare programs. You cannot borrow tons of money from Russia and China and then have no plan on how to pay them back when the time to pay comes. You cannot seize farmland and private property and deem it public property and then act surprised when the food system collapses. You cannot misrepresent statistics and data in order to give things a leftist slant and then act surprised when everything tumbles down. You can't keep raising the minimum wage without having a currency that becomes useless. Each of these actions embodies leftist principles, and when you swing that far to the left you're bound to marginalize the people who produce the most. Those people are going to leave, and you're going to be left with this. Venezuela certainly had bad management, but that's no different than Romania's management situation - no amount of good management could've avoided this, except a strict adherence to tried and true conservative fiscal policies that don't push away talent and tax payers. That don't debase the currency, overspend, overborrow, and the like. The only reason other countries with these policies might appear to be surviving is because under the hood, their heavy investments into the capitalistic market of the world have not yet dried up. But it's not sustainable to ride on the success of others forever without contributing something as well. We'll see what happens when, say, Canada's housing bubble pops very soon. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883756224] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>The23rdMagus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> There is no meaningful difference.</quote> Except this one became corrupt and poorly managed.</quote> You cannot abuse the tax payers to the point of suffering brain drain, and then expect that you can continue printing money and overspending on welfare programs. You cannot borrow tons of money from Russia and China and then have no plan on how to pay them back when the time to pay comes. You cannot seize farmland and private property and deem it public property and then act surprised when the food system collapses. You cannot misrepresent statistics and data in order to give things a leftist slant and then act surprised when everything tumbles down. You can't keep raising the minimum wage without having a currency that becomes useless. Each of these actions embodies leftist principles, and when you swing that far to the left you're bound to marginalize the people who produce the most. Those people are going to leave, and you're going to be left with this. Venezuela certainly had bad management, but that's no different than Romania's management situation - no amount of good management could've avoided this, except a strict adherence to tried and true conservative fiscal policies that don't push away talent and tax payers. That don't debase the currency, overspend, overborrow, and the like. The only reason other countries with these policies might appear to be surviving is because under the hood, their heavy investments into the capitalistic market of the world have not yet dried up. But it's not sustainable to ride on the success of others forever without contributing something as well. We'll see what happens when, say, Canada's housing bubble pops very soon.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
halomonkey1_3_5 07/28/17 11:23:26 AM #24:	Venezuela is yet another example of how cronyism destroys a country almost as quickly and thoroughly as any army could --- Billy Mays: July 20, 1958 - June 28, 2009 The Greatest <cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted [p:883756227] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>Venezuela is yet another example of how cronyism destroys a country almost as quickly and thoroughly as any army could</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sativa_Rose 07/28/17 11:23:50 AM #25:	Malcolm_Caradoc posted... Is Scandinavia collapsing No Then shut the hell up Proudclad, go piss away your immortal soul on some other forum CNN isnt left wing, Democrats arent left wing, and nobody wants to turn the USA into a Bolivarian autocratic shithole anyway The Nordic model is not the same thing as traditional socialism. This is something that US politics has completely twisted up in the minds of many people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model The Nordic model (also called Nordic capitalism[1] or Nordic social democracy)[2][3] refers to the economic and social policies common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, and Sweden). This includes a combination of free market capitalism with a comprehensive welfare state and collective bargaining at the national level.[4][5] The Nordic model began to earn attention after World War II.[6] Although there are significant differences among the Nordic countries, they all share some common traits. These include support for a "universalist" welfare state aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy and promoting social mobility; a corporatist system involving a tripartite arrangement where representatives of labor and employers negotiate wages and labor market policy mediated by the government;[7] and a commitment to widespread private ownership, free markets and free trade. --- I may not go down in history, but I will go down on your sister. <cite>Sativa_Rose posted [p:883756255] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted...</cite> <quote>Is Scandinavia collapsing No Then shut the hell up Proudclad, go piss away your immortal soul on some other forum CNN isnt left wing, Democrats arent left wing, and nobody wants to turn the USA into a Bolivarian autocratic shithole anyway</quote> The Nordic model is not the same thing as traditional socialism. This is something that US politics has completely twisted up in the minds of many people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model The Nordic model (also called Nordic capitalism[1] or Nordic social democracy)[2][3] refers to the economic and social policies common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, and Sweden). This includes a combination of free market capitalism with a comprehensive welfare state and collective bargaining at the national level.[4][5] The Nordic model began to earn attention after World War II.[6] Although there are significant differences among the Nordic countries, they all share some common traits. These include support for a "universalist" welfare state aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy and promoting social mobility; a corporatist system involving a tripartite arrangement where representatives of labor and employers negotiate wages and labor market policy mediated by the government;[7] and a commitment to widespread private ownership, free markets and free trade. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:24:07 AM #26:	OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-21/canada-s-housing-bubble-will-burstWorking so well! :V Anyway, enough of your gimmick posts. * A housing bubble "bursting" like this opinion piece suggests isn't anywhere near what is happening in Venezuela. Get a grip. :v You probably didn't even read that article, you just googled "socialist problems in Canada" and posted what you found first. I didn't say Venezuela has a housing bubble. I responded to what you said about how leftist countries to the north are doing so well. Canada is not doing well. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883756270] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote>https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-21/canada-s-housing-bubble-will-burstWorking so well! :V Anyway, enough of your gimmick posts. *</quote> A housing bubble "bursting" like this opinion piece suggests isn't anywhere near what is happening in Venezuela. Get a grip. :v You probably didn't even read that article, you just googled "socialist problems in Canada" and posted what you found first.</quote> I didn't say Venezuela has a housing bubble. I responded to what you said about how leftist countries to the north are doing so well. Canada is not doing well.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChromaticAngel 07/28/17 11:25:40 AM #28:	Transcendentia posted... They've been leaning pretty left as of late, especially during the course of the previous election. For them to call it out this brazenly, without sugar coating all of the leftist policies listed within, is a good thing and shows that they're smelling the coffee. Anti Trump doesn't automatically mean left. They have actual leftist journalists like Anderson Cooper, but overall the network is a fair mix of bullshit. Back in 2010 or whatever they were reporting that Obamacare was declared unconstitutional for like, 2 solid minutes AFTER Fox news declared it was upheld. --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png <cite>ChromaticAngel posted [p:883756333] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote> They've been leaning pretty left as of late, especially during the course of the previous election. For them to call it out this brazenly, without sugar coating all of the leftist policies listed within, is a good thing and shows that they're smelling the coffee.</quote> Anti Trump doesn't automatically mean left. They have actual leftist journalists like Anderson Cooper, but overall the network is a fair mix of bullshit. Back in 2010 or whatever they were reporting that Obamacare was declared unconstitutional for like, 2 solid minutes AFTER Fox news declared it was upheld.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:26:06 AM #29:	Sativa_Rose posted... It seems to be very common for a nation that nationalizes a major industry (particularly oil) to squander most of the money it gains from it instead of putting it into long term investments, and then when that industry falters, the country suffers tremendously. That was just the tip of the iceberg. The issue is much deeper than that, and it involves all the things I mentioned - overspending on welfare programs, borrowing what you can never pay back, forcibly seizing and nationalizing private property and farms, printing too much money, raising minimum wage way too much, debasing your currency, ignoring data and evidence from sound statistical models, etc. If it was just a badly timed investment into oil, the country could've escaped. But this is much more than that. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883756347] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote>It seems to be very common for a nation that nationalizes a major industry (particularly oil) to squander most of the money it gains from it instead of putting it into long term investments, and then when that industry falters, the country suffers tremendously.</quote> That was just the tip of the iceberg. The issue is much deeper than that, and it involves all the things I mentioned - overspending on welfare programs, borrowing what you can never pay back, forcibly seizing and nationalizing private property and farms, printing too much money, raising minimum wage way too much, debasing your currency, ignoring data and evidence from sound statistical models, etc. If it was just a badly timed investment into oil, the country could've escaped. But this is much more than that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 07/28/17 11:26:43 AM #30:	OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free shit that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialists become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion. --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:883756384] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free shit that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialists become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sativa_Rose 07/28/17 11:27:22 AM #31:	Transcendentia posted... Sativa_Rose posted... It seems to be very common for a nation that nationalizes a major industry (particularly oil) to squander most of the money it gains from it instead of putting it into long term investments, and then when that industry falters, the country suffers tremendously. That was just the tip of the iceberg. The issue is much deeper than that, and it involves all the things I mentioned - overspending on welfare programs, borrowing what you can never pay back, forcibly seizing and nationalizing private property and farms, printing too much money, raising minimum wage way too much, debasing your currency, ignoring data and evidence from sound statistical models, etc. If it was just a badly timed investment into oil, the country could've escaped. But this is much more than that. Oh I agree. I was just commenting that it seems like almost every country that has nationalized a major sector like that ends up in some kind of scandal, like Petrobras in Brazil for example. The money very rarely seems to be spent well. Norway with Statoil may be the exception. --- I may not go down in history, but I will go down on your sister. <cite>Sativa_Rose posted [p:883756413] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote>It seems to be very common for a nation that nationalizes a major industry (particularly oil) to squander most of the money it gains from it instead of putting it into long term investments, and then when that industry falters, the country suffers tremendously.</quote> That was just the tip of the iceberg. The issue is much deeper than that, and it involves all the things I mentioned - overspending on welfare programs, borrowing what you can never pay back, forcibly seizing and nationalizing private property and farms, printing too much money, raising minimum wage way too much, debasing your currency, ignoring data and evidence from sound statistical models, etc. If it was just a badly timed investment into oil, the country could've escaped. But this is much more than that.</quote> Oh I agree. I was just commenting that it seems like almost every country that has nationalized a major sector like that ends up in some kind of scandal, like Petrobras in Brazil for example. The money very rarely seems to be spent well. Norway with Statoil may be the exception.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HydraSlayer82 07/28/17 11:27:50 AM #32:	The23rdMagus posted... Transcendentia posted... OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. There is no meaningful difference. Except this one became corrupt and poorly managed. lol that's our government already. Can you imagine them with more control and more money to shit away? --- Sigless user <cite>HydraSlayer82 posted [p:883756436] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>The23rdMagus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> There is no meaningful difference.</quote> Except this one became corrupt and poorly managed.</quote> lol that's our government already. Can you imagine them with more control and more money to shit away?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The23rdMagus 07/28/17 11:28:19 AM #33:	The Admiral posted... OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free shit that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialist become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion. They do? --- ~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~ Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul Harvey <cite>The23rdMagus posted [p:883756465] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free shit that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialist become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion.</quote> They do?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 07/28/17 11:28:21 AM #34:	The Admiral posted... The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free s* that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialist become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion. That is what the right thinks the left wants, yes. It isn't what the left actually wants. --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:883756467] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free s* that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialist become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion.</quote> That is what the right thinks the left wants, yes. It isn't what the left actually wants.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 07/28/17 11:28:53 AM #35:	OpheliaAdenade posted... The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. This basic concept should be obvious to anyone and yet here we are arguing about it for some reason --- CE's Resident Scotsman. http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z316/CeliaOfTheSky/Pinky0926.jpg <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:883756496] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote>The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> This basic concept should be obvious to anyone and yet here we are arguing about it for some reason</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HydraSlayer82 07/28/17 11:29:02 AM #37:	halomonkey1_3_5 posted... Venezuela is yet another example of how cronyism destroys a country almost as quickly and thoroughly as any army could And that's why it won't work here. Nothing more american than cronyism. The whole system would essentially need gutted and started over. --- Sigless user <cite>HydraSlayer82 posted [p:883756504] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted...</cite> <quote>Venezuela is yet another example of how cronyism destroys a country almost as quickly and thoroughly as any army could</quote> And that's why it won't work here. Nothing more american than cronyism. The whole system would essentially need gutted and started over.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sativa_Rose 07/28/17 11:29:39 AM #38:	The Admiral posted... OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free shit that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialist become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion. There is a difference between socialism and the Nordic model. For some incredibly irritating reason, they have been equated in US politics. Bernie Sanders made this worse by continuously using the word socialism to describe Scandinavian nations. But really it's the Nordic model, which is very based on free market capitalism. --- I may not go down in history, but I will go down on your sister. <cite>Sativa_Rose posted [p:883756545] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free shit that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialist become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion.</quote> There is a difference between socialism and the Nordic model. For some incredibly irritating reason, they have been equated in US politics. Bernie Sanders made this worse by continuously using the word socialism to describe Scandinavian nations. But really it's the Nordic model, which is very based on free market capitalism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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OpheliaAdenade 07/28/17 11:31:56 AM #40:	Sativa_Rose posted... There is a difference between socialism and the Nordic model. For some incredibly irritating reason, they have been equated in US politics. Bernie Sanders made this worse by continuously using the word socialism to describe Scandinavian nations. But really it's the Nordic model, which is very based on free market capitalism. Thank you Sativa, you said it better than I could. We really should just get away from the word "socialism" all together, since it gets lumped in with the shit going on in shitholes like Venezuela. --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:883756662] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote>There is a difference between socialism and the Nordic model. For some incredibly irritating reason, they have been equated in US politics. Bernie Sanders made this worse by continuously using the word socialism to describe Scandinavian nations. But really it's the Nordic model, which is very based on free market capitalism.</quote> Thank you Sativa, you said it better than I could. We really should just get away from the word "socialism" all together, since it gets lumped in with the shit going on in shitholes like Venezuela.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:32:35 AM #41:	Sativa_Rose posted... There is a difference between socialism and the Nordic model. For some incredibly irritating reason, they have been equated in US politics. Bernie Sanders made this worse by continuously using the word socialism to describe Scandinavian nations. But really it's the Nordic model, which is very based on free market capitalism. Exactly. And that's why I smh whenever CE's leftists respond to Venezuela's collapse with "b-b-b-but Norway!1111" without paying attention to the fact that those countries could not exist without being heavily invested in the capitalistic engine of the global market in the first place. Their policies would literally collapse because of how unsustainable they are. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883756703] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote>There is a difference between socialism and the Nordic model. For some incredibly irritating reason, they have been equated in US politics. Bernie Sanders made this worse by continuously using the word socialism to describe Scandinavian nations. But really it's the Nordic model, which is very based on free market capitalism. </quote> Exactly. And that's why I smh whenever CE's leftists respond to Venezuela's collapse with "b-b-b-but Norway!1111" without paying attention to the fact that those countries could not exist without being heavily invested in the capitalistic engine of the global market in the first place. Their policies would literally collapse because of how unsustainable they are.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 07/28/17 11:33:29 AM #42:	shockthemonkey posted... But then how could shitposters shitpost?! Good question. Now have you kissed your poster of Stalin yet today? --- CE's Resident Scotsman. http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z316/CeliaOfTheSky/Pinky0926.jpg <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:883756751] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>But then how could shitposters shitpost?!</quote> Good question. Now have you kissed your poster of Stalin yet today?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HydraSlayer82 07/28/17 11:33:47 AM #43:	Sativa_Rose posted... The Admiral posted... OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... frozenshock posted... Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades. The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are. The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free shit that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialist become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion. There is a difference between socialism and the Nordic model. For some incredibly irritating reason, they have been equated in US politics. Bernie Sanders made this worse by continuously using the word socialism to describe Scandinavian nations. But really it's the Nordic model, which is very based on free market capitalism. Bingo. --- Sigless user <cite>HydraSlayer82 posted [p:883756771] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>frozenshock posted...</cite> <quote>Whatever you're doing, you got to be smart about it. A left wing government and a right wing government can both collapse the economy if they're run by idiots</quote> True, but on this board there are many far-left CEmen who think socialism is the second coming and that being far left is the only sane position. Not even kidding. Meanwhile, we see a country that implemented exactly the types of things they want implemented. That country is collapsing, in all of the same ways conservatives have been warning for decades.</quote> The socialism the left wants and the socialism in Venezuela are not the same concepts, regardless of how vehemently the right insists they are.</quote> The socialism the left wants in the U.S. is "I get free shit that someone else pays for." That isn't any more sustainable than the Venezuelan model. Amazingly, the so-called U.S. socialist become incredibly conservative when you ask them how much they are personally willing to contribute to see the expanded social programs they champion.</quote> There is a difference between socialism and the Nordic model. For some incredibly irritating reason, they have been equated in US politics. Bernie Sanders made this worse by continuously using the word socialism to describe Scandinavian nations. But really it's the Nordic model, which is very based on free market capitalism.</quote> Bingo.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
omarssikins 07/28/17 11:34:01 AM #44:	WeTranscendentia posted... Damn_Underscore posted... To be fair CNN isn't socialist They have the same political ideology as Hillary Clinton Antifar posted... CNN is not leftist, I don't know why the surprise of the topic title. They've been leaning pretty left as of late, especially during the course of the previous election. For them to call it out this brazenly, without sugar coating all of the leftist policies listed within, is a good thing and shows that they're smelling the coffee. It's kinda difficult to lean right when the right is pretty much just allowing Trump to do w/ever shit comes to his mind at the time like banning trans from Military and also being obstructionists when it comes to the Russia probe which should be bipartisan issues. --- http://myanimelist.net/profile/omarssikins Luscious Mami Tomoe, what a Mami. Fiora is mine. Eva-unit 00, Rei at your service. Yuno is delicious, fish is not. <cite>omarssikins posted [p:883756782] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>We<cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Damn_Underscore posted...</cite> <quote>To be fair CNN isn't socialist They have the same political ideology as Hillary Clinton</quote> <cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>CNN is not leftist, I don't know why the surprise of the topic title.</quote> They've been leaning pretty left as of late, especially during the course of the previous election. For them to call it out this brazenly, without sugar coating all of the leftist policies listed within, is a good thing and shows that they're smelling the coffee.</quote> It's kinda difficult to lean right when the right is pretty much just allowing Trump to do w/ever shit comes to his mind at the time like banning trans from Military and also being obstructionists when it comes to the Russia probe which should be bipartisan issues.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 07/28/17 11:35:20 AM #45:	Transcendentia posted... Exactly. And that's why I smh whenever CE's leftists respond to Venezuela's collapse with "b-b-b-but Norway!1111" without paying attention to the fact that those countries could not exist without being heavily invested in the capitalistic engine of the global market in the first place. Their policies would literally collapse because of how unsustainable they are. So why are you trying to say in this topic that the socialism in Venezuela is the same kind that the left wants, when you admit here that what they actually want is something different? Embracing socialist ideas doesn't mean forsaking capitalist ones. You can have both. --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:883756859] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote>Exactly. And that's why I smh whenever CE's leftists respond to Venezuela's collapse with "b-b-b-but Norway!1111" without paying attention to the fact that those countries could not exist without being heavily invested in the capitalistic engine of the global market in the first place. Their policies would literally collapse because of how unsustainable they are.</quote> So why are you trying to say in this topic that the socialism in Venezuela is the same kind that the left wants, when you admit here that what they actually want is something different? Embracing socialist ideas doesn't mean forsaking capitalist ones. You can have both.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 07/28/17 11:36:10 AM #46:	The nordic model had never been tried in a country nearly as big as the US I think it could work in individual states or in different regions of the US, but just trying to make it work in the full country is not a good idea --- Shenmue II = best game of all time Shenmue = 2nd best game of all time <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:883756900] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote>The nordic model had never been tried in a country nearly as big as the US I think it could work in individual states or in different regions of the US, but just trying to make it work in the full country is not a good idea</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:37:15 AM #47:	OpheliaAdenade posted... Transcendentia posted... Exactly. And that's why I smh whenever CE's leftists respond to Venezuela's collapse with "b-b-b-but Norway!1111" without paying attention to the fact that those countries could not exist without being heavily invested in the capitalistic engine of the global market in the first place. Their policies would literally collapse because of how unsustainable they are. So why are you trying to say in this topic that the socialism in Venezuela is the same kind that the left wants, when you admit here that what they actually want is something different? Embracing socialist ideas doesn't mean forsaking capitalist ones. You can have both. Because CE's leftists don't want both. They want to jack up taxes on the producers, increase minimum wage beyond what that labor is worth, nationalize different sectors of the economy, print more money, spend more money on welfare programs, take it easy on paying back debts, etc. There are even a couple who are literally straight up communists. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883756956] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Transcendentia posted...</cite> <quote>Exactly. And that's why I smh whenever CE's leftists respond to Venezuela's collapse with "b-b-b-but Norway!1111" without paying attention to the fact that those countries could not exist without being heavily invested in the capitalistic engine of the global market in the first place. Their policies would literally collapse because of how unsustainable they are.</quote> So why are you trying to say in this topic that the socialism in Venezuela is the same kind that the left wants, when you admit here that what they actually want is something different? Embracing socialist ideas doesn't mean forsaking capitalist ones. You can have both.</quote> Because CE's leftists don't want both. They want to jack up taxes on the producers, increase minimum wage beyond what that labor is worth, nationalize different sectors of the economy, print more money, spend more money on welfare programs, take it easy on paying back debts, etc. There are even a couple who are literally straight up communists.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:37:54 AM #48:	Damn_Underscore posted... The nordic model had never been tried in a country nearly as big as the US I think it could work in individual states or in different regions of the US, but just trying to make it work in the full country is not a good idea I tried to explain this to Antifar ad nauseum but in his world, systems scale linearly in a perfect and predictable fashion regardless of how many people are thrown into the mix. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883756996] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Damn_Underscore posted...</cite> <quote>The nordic model had never been tried in a country nearly as big as the US I think it could work in individual states or in different regions of the US, but just trying to make it work in the full country is not a good idea</quote> I tried to explain this to Antifar ad nauseum but in his world, systems scale linearly in a perfect and predictable fashion regardless of how many people are thrown into the mix.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mandasnake 07/28/17 11:37:55 AM #49:	Damn_Underscore posted... The nordic model had never been tried in a country nearly as big as the US I think it could work in individual states or in different regions of the US, but just trying to make it work in the full country is not a good idea I think this can be a decent compromise. Its what we lack these days. --- Paging...Dr. Snakes <cite>Mandasnake posted [p:883757000] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Damn_Underscore posted...</cite> <quote>The nordic model had never been tried in a country nearly as big as the US I think it could work in individual states or in different regions of the US, but just trying to make it work in the full country is not a good idea</quote> I think this can be a decent compromise. Its what we lack these days.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/28/17 11:38:27 AM #50:	Mandasnake posted... Damn_Underscore posted... The nordic model had never been tried in a country nearly as big as the US I think it could work in individual states or in different regions of the US, but just trying to make it work in the full country is not a good idea I think this can be a decent compromise. Its what we lack these days. It's not a good idea, though. Because then you have situations like in Illinois. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883757027] in Even CNN i... [t:75613812]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mandasnake posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Damn_Underscore posted...</cite> <quote>The nordic model had never been tried in a country nearly as big as the US I think it could work in individual states or in different regions of the US, but just trying to make it work in the full country is not a good idea</quote> I think this can be a decent compromise. Its what we lack these days.</quote> It's not a good idea, though. Because then you have situations like in Illinois.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Even CNN is calling out Venezuela's socialism/far leftism for the collapse there (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Even CNN is calling out Venezuela's socialism/far leftism for the collapse there