Current Events > C/D: Grand Theft Auto was better when it was focused on gameplay/crime.

(+) Yeah! (+)

C

GTA IV and GTA V are good and all, but lets be honest, nobody actually likes the awful "family and friends" shit they brought to the table, right?

Did anyone actually find the Michael family missions fun in GTA V? Did anyone actually enjoy going to restaurants and bars with their friends? Were darts, tennis and yoga *really* worth the time it took to develop them?

I'm starting to think this is the only reason GTA Online is so successful even though it's so shit, it's still closer to GTA III/Vice City/San Andreas than GTA IV or V were. Hell, half my friends haven't even played past the first heist because they didn't like the story in GTA V.
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San Andreas 4 lyfe. 4 lyfe u herd?

They're still focused on gameplay and crime.
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D. I prefer the evolution
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C

I don't really want a sympathetic crook as the protagonist, it just clashes with the narrative when he's all like "I've done bad things and I regret it" but right after that you can go on a shooting rampage and get a bunch of SWAT teams on your ass
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ledbowman posted...

They're still focused on gameplay and crime.

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chill02 posted...

C

I don't really want a sympathetic crook as the protagonist, it just clashes with the narrative when he's all like "I've done bad things and I regret it" but right after that you can go on a shooting rampage and get a bunch of SWAT teams on your ass

Yes, thank you, fuck Niko.
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C

GTA IV's main problem was it being way too focused on telling a down to earth crime story which lead to boring as shit missions.

GTA V has missions that are actually fun, but there are also pretty boring fucking missions that are only there to move the plot along.

GTA III/Vice City/San Andreas felt like the story was written around the game, GTA IV and GTA V feel like a game designed around a story.
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chill02 posted...

C

I don't really want a sympathetic crook as the protagonist, it just clashes with the narrative when he's all like "I've done bad things and I regret it" but right after that you can go on a shooting rampage and get a bunch of SWAT teams on your ass

You'd hate VCS then

Go_Totodile posted...

You'd hate VCS then

I dunno. Victor seemed more like a guy that knew he was an asshole but was just kind of like resigned to that fate. Maybe it's because I loved the empire building in VCS that I give it a pass though.
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I mean, add as much story as you want, but just let the protagonist be an asshole or amoral and just use it as an excuse to get the player to steal cars or kill people.
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D.

the personal missions that the characters have help flesh them out, IMO.

like, you get a better view of what day to day life is like for these violent criminals, and it adds more context as to what motivates them/what they value.

plus, they can be a nice dinner from the more action oriented stuff.

GTAV is my favorite because of all that stuff.
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D, GTA4 is the best GTA IMO. Not to say I don't love the previous GTAs but 4s story knocked it outta the park.
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KillerSlaw posted...

GTA III/Vice City/San Andreas felt like the story was written around the game, GTA IV and GTA V feel like a game designed around a story.

THIS

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

They're definitely not focused on gameplay because every single thing is some sort of tool to further tell the story instead of being something that is just fun to do. Going out with friends and friend activities are a tool to get more characterization across than to actually be fun things to do.

It's why they removed shit like ambulance/fire fighter/vigilante missions and instead replaced them with stuff like the shitty bounty hunter missions. Yeah, it's like vigilante except each criminal has some bullshit story they tell you as you haul them off to the bail bond chick. And because of that, we only made five of them.

Or street races. You can't just have a street race, you have to first wait for a text message from Hao. And fuck help you if the game hangs up and decides to wait a week to send you that text message. But hey, they had to make sure Franklin felt like he was alive and had friends, right?

The more they try to make these worlds feel "alive", the less fun they seem to become.
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KillerSlaw posted...

Go_Totodile posted...

You'd hate VCS then

I dunno. Victor seemed more like a guy that knew he was an asshole but was just kind of like resigned to that fate. Maybe it's because I loved the empire building in VCS that I give it a pass though.

Don't get me wrong, I fucking love VCS.

I liked the original idea behind the buddy/dating activities, where developing a good relationship with someone gave you perks that could be called upon later. Unfortunately IV made it annoying with people calling you all the time, and V completely lost sight of the point by doing away with perks entirely. It's like they downgraded the feature each game instead of building on it.
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Also, I'm not sure if the way GTA V treats mission rewards and the stock market were deliberately made that way as some sort of "crime doesn't pay" metaphor, or if they were just poorly designed
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http://imgur.com/a/8ykfk

The one on the left is GTA III's script, the one on the right is obviously GTA IV.

Somewhere along the way, Dan Houser got this insane fucking idea that he was some great fucking writer and went waaaaaay too fucking far with it.
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chill02 posted...

C

I don't really want a sympathetic crook as the protagonist, it just clashes with the narrative when he's all like "I've done bad things and I regret it" but right after that you can go on a shooting rampage and get a bunch of SWAT teams on your ass

is that really your own opinion or have you read that in a magazine or another messageboard post about 20 times so now you are just parroting it along with the others
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Swagnificent119 posted...

http://imgur.com/a/8ykfk

The one on the left is GTA III's script, the one on the right is obviously GTA IV.

Somewhere along the way, Dan Houser got this insane fucking idea that he was some great fucking writer and went waaaaaay too fucking far with it.

Holy shit. Tbf, that's kinda what happens when your main character doesn't speak, but yeah that's definitely extreme.

Roxborough4Ever posted...

chill02 posted...

C

I don't really want a sympathetic crook as the protagonist, it just clashes with the narrative when he's all like "I've done bad things and I regret it" but right after that you can go on a shooting rampage and get a bunch of SWAT teams on your ass

is that really your own opinion or have you read that in a magazine or another messageboard post about 20 times so now you are just parroting it along with the others

It is. I liked the games where the story was just there as an excuse to get you to the next mission, but now it's the other way around.
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The friend stuff is annoying as all fuck. If I want to play mini-games I'll do it on my own time.
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eston posted...

I liked the original idea behind the buddy/dating activities, where developing a good relationship with someone gave you perks that could be called upon later. Unfortunately IV made it annoying with people calling you all the time, and V completely lost sight of the point by doing away with perks entirely. It's like they downgraded the feature each game instead of building on it.

The worst part is that there are some things in GTA V that need the context of friend activity conversations to make sense during mission conversations (like the fact that Lamar and Franklin wanted to make their own set of the Families, which gets brought up during mission with Stretch. Or the fact that Trevor was planning on bailing on Michael after the depot job, meaning that Michael wasn't as "stuck" as he made out to be. Or the big one where Mike offers Trevor his cut of the big score to fix their friendship)

but like, most people don't do the friend activities so they'll never notice that. Hell, I barely did any of them there's probably all sorts of shit Jimmy and Amanda tell about Michael that I've missed.
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chill02 posted...

C

I don't really want a sympathetic crook as the protagonist, it just clashes with the narrative when he's all like "I've done bad things and I regret it" but right after that you can go on a shooting rampage and get a bunch of SWAT teams on your ass

Well put. San Andreas was the last one I truly enjoyed, just because there was enough of a story to make the characters likeable, but not an overemphasis on it. I told myself when I first started playing 3 that I'd be done with the series if and when it started to take itself too seriously in this regard.

What separates GTA from edgelord trash like that indie serial-killer game that came and went a year or two ago is the absurdness of the world - these aren't real people you're shooting and mowing down with your automobile, they're parodies. The more you try to ground your main characters and story, the more this absurdness becomes compromised and invariably clashes with the story. It's okay to have fleeting moments of humanity build from a parody / absurd piece, and sometimes a parody story can build to a meaningful narrative - something like Kill Bill, for instance. But it's a lot, lot harder to add parody into the mix after the fact when the groundwork of your story is meant to be taken seriously.
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Swagnificent119 posted...

http://imgur.com/a/8ykfk

The one on the left is GTA III's script, the one on the right is obviously GTA IV.

Somewhere along the way, Dan Houser got this insane fucking idea that he was some great fucking writer and went waaaaaay too fucking far with it.

I always thought it was funny that they had such specific things recorded for Niko, like every single street name to use in taxi cabs, or him saying what his preferred radio station is in cabs.

And then in GTA V the main characters just say what district they want to go to.

Like, I wonder was that something that was brought up during development or who exactly decided *that* was going too far with it.
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I really hope they scale back on the linear missions in GTAVI.

Like let the player rob a bank whenever they want. We don't need a story reason. Just let us do it. Let us steal a cop outfit and walk into a police station just for the hell of it. Let us make money however we want. Let us experiment and think of criminal schemes on our own. Let us walk into a dodgy bar and simply ask the manager if he has work instead of making us play through missions to get there. Make an actual crime simulator.

Vice City was probably the closest thing to have a non-linear mission structure towards the end when you invest in all the businesses. I want something similar to that but even more free.
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Darmik posted...

Like let the player rob a bank whenever they want. We don't need a story reason. Just let us do it. Let us steal a cop outfit and walk into a police station just for the hell of it. Let us make money however we want. Let us experiment and think of criminal schemes on our own. Let us walk into a dodgy bar and simply ask the manager if he has work instead of making us play through missions to get there. Make an actual crime simulator.

This.

I feel like this is what GTA Online should have been instead of what we got.
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Somehow the characters in GTA IV and GTA V have like 100% more story and characterization than the characters in GTA III/Vice City/San Andreas yet I can't remember any of them outside like 9. And I honestly couldn't tell you much about any of them while I can think back fondly on all sorts of characters from the other games.
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chill02 posted...

C

I don't really want a sympathetic crook as the protagonist, it just clashes with the narrative when he's all like "I've done bad things and I regret it" but right after that you can go on a shooting rampage and get a bunch of SWAT teams on your ass

How does that clash with the narrative? What you do outside of the story is basically non-canon. Plus, almost every game has gameplay and story segregation at some point.
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D. 4 was the best GTA. Those social things could be done better perhaps, but they were a good addition generally. Roman specifically was annoying because the character was annoying, and romances were entirely optional to even start.
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dave_is_slick posted...

chill02 posted...

C

I don't really want a sympathetic crook as the protagonist, it just clashes with the narrative when he's all like "I've done bad things and I regret it" but right after that you can go on a shooting rampage and get a bunch of SWAT teams on your ass

How does that clash with the narrative? What you do outside of the story is basically non-canon. Plus, almost every game has gameplay and story segregation at some point.

Honestly I never got that impression in GTA until San Andreas.
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dave_is_slick posted...

How does that clash with the narrative? What you do outside of the story is basically non-canon. Plus, almost every game has gameplay and story segregation at some point.

There are tons of story missions in GTA IV and GTA V where you kill countless amounts of law enforcement. So the idea of mass murder being segregated out of the story is kind of bullshit.
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KillerSlaw posted...

dave_is_slick posted...

How does that clash with the narrative? What you do outside of the story is basically non-canon. Plus, almost every game has gameplay and story segregation at some point.

There are tons of story missions in GTA IV and GTA V where you kill countless amounts of law enforcement. So the idea of mass murder being segregated out of the story is kind of bullshit.

The difference is context. If Niko is killing cops because a job went south or he was told to rob someone he's doing it because he's getting paid. If he does it while free roaming he's doing it because... he's bored?
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chill02 posted...

The difference is context. If Niko is killing cops because a job went south or he was told to rob someone he's doing it because he's getting paid. If he does it while free roaming he's doing it because... he's bored?

If Niko is killing cops or robbing people in general, he's still a whiny, hypocritical piece of shit.
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I love the GTA series but I tend to agree. 4 and 5 are programming marvels and extremely well designed, but they miss the pizzazz and randomness and fun that comes with asshatting around that came with all the earlier games.

I especially agree that they've done a lot to ruin it with the stripping of cartoony side missions (firefighting and ambulance driving), and redesign of businesses... It used to be fun buying a business and doing a few missions and getting it up and running. In GTA 5, it took you most of the game to have enough money to buy most of the businesses, and then, because they didn't generate revenue regularly, it would take you doing a mundane task like driving a car from point A to point B about 500 times to break even on the purchase.

More realistic damage and police behavior means classic rampaging on the street is completely different and typically very short lived.

And what the hell was up with it being almost impossible to flip cars in GTA 5?

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

KillerSlaw posted...

GTA III/Vice City/San Andreas felt like the story was written around the game, GTA IV and GTA V feel like a game designed around a story.

THIS

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

They're definitely not focused on gameplay because every single thing is some sort of tool to further tell the story instead of being something that is just fun to do. Going out with friends and friend activities are a tool to get more characterization across than to actually be fun things to do.

It's why they removed shit like ambulance/fire fighter/vigilante missions and instead replaced them with stuff like the shitty bounty hunter missions. Yeah, it's like vigilante except each criminal has some bullshit story they tell you as you haul them off to the bail bond chick. And because of that, we only made five of them.

Or street races. You can't just have a street race, you have to first wait for a text message from Hao. And fuck help you if the game hangs up and decides to wait a week to send you that text message. But hey, they had to make sure Franklin felt like he was alive and had friends, right?

The more they try to make these worlds feel "alive", the less fun they seem to become.

You're blowing the side activities way out of proportion. You don't seem to know what "focus" means.
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ledbowman posted...

You're blowing the side activities way out of proportion. You don't seem to know what "focus" means.

Compare the side activities of San Andreas to GTA V and tell me what the focus or idea behind them was.
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Compare the side activities of San Andreas to GTA V and tell me what the focus or idea behind them was.

stfu
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D

scoobydoobydont posted...

D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Compare the side activities of San Andreas to GTA V and tell me what the focus or idea behind them was.

stfu

you're only angry cause you know deep down I'm right.
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I mean, to be fair, I don't think any of the side content in either universe has ever been "that fun". R3 missions and side missions were mostly a chore for completion and/or rewards to me.

The only friend activity I found in the new series was pool, and they fucking took that out of GTA V for fucking Yoga of all things.

I'd rather go back to GTAIII era style of game, though. I grew tired of GTA IV and GTA V's stories and missions really quick but I can still go back to the other games no problem.
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I kinda liked the taxi missions since they were rather chill. Vigilante missions were fun too.

Paramedic and Firefighter though? Yuck. I wouldn't be interested in the whole "Do 10 of them in a row" these days either.
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

ledbowman posted...

You're blowing the side activities way out of proportion. You don't seem to know what "focus" means.

Compare the side activities of San Andreas to GTA V and tell me what the focus or idea behind them was.

Wtf are you talking about? You're in here saying the boring side missions are the focus of the more recent games, which is idiocy.
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