1. Valkyria Chronicles 2. Xenoblade 3. The World Ends With You 4. Skyrim 5. Pokemon Diamond/Pearl 6. Final Fantasy XIII-2 7. Tales of Graces F 8. Crisis Core 9. Final Fantasy XIII 10. Pokemon Black/White
9000. Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn 900000001. Super Paper Mario 90000000002. Eternal Sonata 9000000000000000003. Star Ocean IV 9000000000000000000000004. Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the new world
Haven't played - Tales of Vesperia Have played but haven't really played - Disgaea 4, Mass Effect 2 , Demon's Souls
I really only like number 1 on this list, but considering you haven't played the Souls games I can't really find a fault with it either. DP being there maybe, that game is pretty much where I gave up on Pokemon. I'd probably put TWEWY over Xenoblade, but ehh... whatever.
nah, it really wasn't better than that, at all. there's nothing wrong with being a 7-8/10, but it's not really this amazing piece of gaming or something. good, def worth playing, but there's better.
there is no argument you could make to not count castlevania as an rpg. action/rpg(/platformer if you want to get technical - though OoE makes even THAT not apply so much) obviously, but it's totally one.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
I wouldn't consider the DS CVs to be RPGs, but considering smurf calls VC one... I guess you almost have to, it would be a pretty sad generation if it wasn't.
Devil Survivor 1 isn't better than TWEWY though, at least the DS version isn't don't know about the 3DS one.
...though i guess it probably is a top 10 rpg after all, since remembering DoS doesn't make me think i prefer it, and i wouldn't count Izuna 2 as better than it even if you like your rogue types. other big ones i can think of are Contact (if you can get past the gameplay - i couldn't), Infinite Space (i seriously need to get back to this to complete it, but it's definitely better), and... that'll be it unless you have some really, really specific tastes in mind (e.g., DQ9). not in the top 5 but hey.
still, for the CV games DoS is all i'd give it. PoR and OoE especially, no chance. (EO2 better, EO3 2nd best RPG on system, squeezed between OoE and Radiant Historia.)
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
you really, really can't not consider the DS ones RPGs. the older ones through SCV4, sure, that was platformer all the way. SoTN changed that entirely though and there's... really nothing about them that wouldn't qualify. it's no less an RPG than KH, Ys, Skyrim, Mass Effect, a billion other WRPGs, Demon's/Dark Souls, etc. they're action/rpg hybrids, taking pieces of both to make the game. OoE even ditches Metroidvania to make it even further from the rest.
and nah, DS1 is better, while TWEWY is in the 7-8 range (i personally think of it as just 7.5), DS1's just a solid 8. bit better there. DS2's a bit better than the first (8.5~), but still a winner.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
mm.... if Infinite Space isn't RPG then what would it be? VN/Simulation? i think rpg/sim fits it better since there's a lot of customization on the user's end that relies on dem numbers and the way characters come or don't ends up feeling very SRW-like. SRW's heavy on story, but still an srpg, so rpg works.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
The big block for CV games being RPGs is there being modes in every one of the games that remove all the RPG elements from them. That to me says they're close enough to action games that you can pretty safely call them action games with RPG elements more than action RPGs
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...you can block the stuff out of other games like SRW too or something (some hard modes prevent upgrades). doesn't magically not make it an srpg. pretty sure some of the Ys games also limit you in higher difficulties. O_o
just 'cause there's a way to make them harder or focus on a different storyline doesn't mean they lose the genre they are in the first place. if square decided they wanted to make a hard mode for KH where you don't get any upgrades it'd still be action/rpg because the base game is one. hell, pokemon had DRM that prevented you from getting EXP, did it stop being an rpg then? that logic just doesn't make sense, just because you have extras doesn't mean the main game magically loses its genre, it just means that extra is just that, an extra. much like a shmup section in a game or something.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
My point was more that there were a lot of elements to hold up games like Pokemon and Kingdom Hearts as rpgs whereas CV's is... very flimsy. If you removed all of the rpg elements from those games you'd have a completely different game. Castlevania you just have a game with locked in gear and stats-- not a big deal at all.
For instance if you take away the leveling from Pokemon or KH you still have a menu based RPG combat system. You gut the combat system and there's nothing left. You take away the gear and leveling from Skyrim or Mass Effect and you still have... well, extensive roleplaying and a high focus on story (moreso in the case of ME but yeah)... take those away and... well, okay, you have a fps, but it's a lot more to take out. You take away gear and leveling from Castlevania games? You have Richter mode.
The RPG genre has a lot of characteristics to it. If you've hardly got any of those you're generally more an action game than an RPG. If you've got a lot of em, you're more of an action RPG. Makes sense to me.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
Like uh... by your very loose definition of what's necessary to make an RPG, you could call Super Metroid an RPG (you power up over the course of the game via gathering up items). Or you could call Street Fighter Alpha 3 an RPG (leveling up system in World Tour mode).
Just think about that.
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it's... a huge deal to take away gear and lock your levels in CV. you get an entirely different game by doing so. Julius mode has levels to it, but limits your equipment. OoE limits your level if Shanoa, equipment if what's his face. PoR.... i think was the sisters? similar deal. you're still playing an action/rpg, but it's far more restrictive. it's also NOT the main game and an extra feature, a bonus, that you're playing. which... has nothing to do with the main game, genre-wise. if there are extras that you'd find would "convert" the game then it isn't illogical to say that the extra mode is an action game while the main game is an action/rpg. that'd make sense - the game unlocks something you'd find would cross that line over. ....but the main game has all of that. calling it something else because of bonuses makes no sense at all.
also no, KH or Ys with the same restrictions really wouldn't be any different than the CV games are. you'd play a different way, but 'menu based' is a cop-out with that seeing how you're RARELY ever in a menu. for KH you mash X, hit triangle a couple times, make shortcuts with the trigger buttons, and purposefully avoid any need to go into a menu to do your moves. for KH you... have absolutely no need for 'menu based combat' and that's not how it's meant to be played either. it's supposed to be realtime and action.
super metroid as an rpg isn't an unheard of argument either, its genre is one of those that you'll get a lot of disagreement with. but uhhh, i haven't even said a definition for it. if you want one? it's the stats and numbers. stats make the genre. it's the single universal thing you'll find in 'em all, a heavy stat and numbers based system for the player. if that's your base to work with, you're an rpg or sim.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
...it also doesn't help that you're talking about story acting as if the DS ones didn't. SoTN didn't have much of it, but DoS threw story at you everywhere. PoR not only threw story at you everywhere, but even the way it played was defined by the story. and then we get OoE, which was absolutely story-based - it even removed much of the platforming until the end, which was revealed as a plot point.
another example in the action/rpg mess would be Diablo. which also ain't that much different in this than CV, KH, or Ys.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
PoR and OoE's story were both pretty minor by RPG standards. It was big for a CV game but I haven't played any RPGs since the NES that had less story than those, really. I'm not saying story is an RPG exclusive thing, but a certain degree of focus on it is a characteristics that RPGs have.
Anyway I'm just going to leave your argument at "Street Fighter Alpha 3 is an RPG" and leave it at that.
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...and the story in the DS Castlevania (especially OoE) really isn't any less than D2 was so uh... yeah. that ain't workin' either. or hell, the various korean mmorpgs that pop up. if you want lacking in story, there is an entire pool full of it in that one.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
Yes sports games can have sim aspects much like castlevania games have rpg aspects but they're... sports games. They have their own genre. If you called Madden 2011 a sim someone would slap you for it.
You know what else is an RPG/Sim due to stats/numbers?
Gran Turismo 3. Resident Evil 4. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
But I'm sure these are racing sim, zombie survival sim, and homie sim respectively, right.
Also D2 has a bucketload more story than the DS Castlevanias-- people just skip over the dialogue because it's... not very interesting. I'd say the CV games have a better story, even, but D2's is more prevalent and a lot more fleshed out if you look for it. It's just that the flesh isn't very interesting.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love!