Lim not sure how your typical teachers union works but I know my union can and has had people let go for sucking
This is not the case for the vast majority of unions. Unions are about "protecting their own," so unless you do something to explicitly piss off the union leaders, you're probably golden. It takes one hell of a case against a worker for an employer to be able to fire them.
In the case of teacher unions in particular, I was released from a job after a year of getting good marks because the school system was downsizing and some person with four years' experience was losing their job and bounced me. They bounced me because they were being pushed out of their position by someone with ten years experience. Considering this school system represents like twenty Catholic schools across six counties, some of the commutes they created were ridiculous and in many cases they were preserving some really crappy teachers at the expense of good young folks trying to get in. But hey, they protected their own, right? (Sidenote: I am not trying to claim I was a good teacher.)
For other unions, there have been times where they have literally brought companies to their knees and run them out of business. My parents grew up in Bethlehem, PA, which was famous for its steelworks. The entire town was supported from the steel mill, as if you didn't work there, you probably did something that supported the people who did. They treated their employees well, and if you had a job at the steel factory, it was a job for life if you wanted it to be. At some point the workers unionized (for reasons unknown to me) and the union bosses started making unreasonable demands. Considering the owners faced either shutting down from lack of workers or taking losses on their work because of the increased wage costs, they took the slow death and the union just worked harder to run the company into the ground. I'm sure it was great for them while it lasted, but the whole town went to **** afterwards.
If capitalism is fair, then Unionism must be. If men have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men to capitalize their labor.
Nobody is saying that unions have no right to exist, just that they deserve no special privileges and protections from the government. An employer (in this case, the governor of Wisconsin) should have every right to refuse to negotiate with a particular union for whatever reason they wish.
Also, the Koch brothers spend their own money on politics. Unions use required dues from their employees to support radical socialist political causes which are in direct opposition to the beliefs of the vast majority of their members. There's KIND OF a difference there.
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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
Nobody is saying that unions have no right to exist, just that they deserve no special privileges and protections from the government. An employer (in this case, the governor of Wisconsin) should have ever right to refuse to negotiate with a particular union for whatever reason they wish.
Also, the Koch brothers spend their own money on politics. Unions use required dues from their employees to support radical socialist political causes which are in direct opposition to the beliefs of the vast majority of their members. There's KIND OF a difference there.
the post right above you says "do away with unions". Kinda implying that they need to be made illegal.
Fun fact: you dont have to join the union where you work. Yes, its true. (http://www.examiner.com/article/unions-101-do-i-have-to-join-the-union-at-my-workplace) You may think you have to, but in every place ive worked where there is a union, I've never had to join. Also nice little "radical socialist cause" throw in when if they are radical, the people who throw millions of dollars the other way are just as radical for other causes.
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Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II
From: Metal_DK | #056 Fun fact: you dont have to join the union where you work.
Another provision said that a civil servant can no longer be forced to join a union and pay dues; there must be freedom of choice.
Some told stories of teachers who were happier now that they didn't have to pay union dues and had more freedom. The Wall Street Journal has reported that membership in the state's second largest public union, the American Federation of State, Country and Municipal Employees, fell from 62,818 in March 2011 to 28,745 this February; the union disputes the figure, but no one disagrees that the unions have been losing members.
Republicans literally lost the State Senate and are trying to spin this as a win because Walker barely hold on.
Damage control if i've ever seen it, walker just lost all his power.
First, 60 percent of voters thought that recall elections were only appropriate for official misconduct, while 27 percent said "any reason." Another 10 percent said "never"—and those voted for Walker 94-5. It's hard going into any election with 10 percent immediately off the board, and for those who said "only official misconduct," Walker won 68-31. Turns out people just didn't like the idea of a recall—something worth filing away as an important lesson learned.
-- Warning_Crazy Winner of Board 8 Big Brother! "better than ngamer"- nick
Republicans literally lost the State Senate and are trying to spin this as a win because Walker barely hold on.
Damage control if i've ever seen it, walker just lost all his power.
First, 60 percent of voters thought that recall elections were only appropriate for official misconduct, while 27 percent said "any reason." Another 10 percent said "never"—and those voted for Walker 94-5. It's hard going into any election with 10 percent immediately off the board, and for those who said "only official misconduct," Walker won 68-31. Turns out people just didn't like the idea of a recall—something worth filing away as an important lesson learned.
The Democrats' most vilified governor wins by a larger margin than Obama did in '08, and you are literally saying you guys won.
Thank you, W_C.
-- SephirothG, channeling awesomeness from Mershiness. The Resurrection
im kinda confused about the opinion in this topic then. This ultimaterializerx guy posts:
"Do away with unions and we can start firing all of these jerkoffs."
and nobody really disagrees with him. The opinion i formulated from that post is that he thinks all unions should be illegal, public or private. That goes against the capitalistic values i hold, as making unions illegal is a forced regulation on the economy.
Or is he only talking about the public sector unions? In that case, that would seem mildly hypocritical to support private unionization but not public. Meh, maybe im just not in the loop on the posters here itt.
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Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II
Unions are the absolute worst. People only need their jobs protected if they are literally putting their lives on the line daily, like factory workers, cops or tower dogs. Teachers are about the last profession that needed to unionize.
About 1 in 4000 teachers will lose their job. Plum is 100% right about tenure making it next to impossible to fire a POS teacher, especially given you don't really learn how to teach in education majors. You learn how to exploit the system until you get tenure, then you learn about 50 different ways to remove annoying kids from your classes without getting sued by parents.
Do away with unions and we can start firing all of these jerkoffs.
people who point to the worst excesses of unions and use that to argue that we should outlaw unions are just as shortsighted as people who point to the worst excesses of big business and declare all big business and capitalism bad.
Since 2010, unemployment in Wisconsin is down, along with support for public sectors unions. Exit polls say 88% of voters had made up their mind by April.
Blaming the advertising money here is silly. What it really comes down to the incumbent is going to have a big advantage if things have "gotten better" economically during his term, deserved or not.
i kinda wanted a response from this ultimaterializerx guy. He really used poor language to describe what he feels, because he sounded like he wants all unions illegal. Which is the definition of regulation, and not a free market value which all people should hold ideal.
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Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II
i still would like to know how the libertarians in this topic (ive noticed a few of you also post in the ron paul topic) feel about unions. I get the vibe that you all want them illegal (although smartmuffin said he did not), but that is a really anti-capitalistic stance on things.
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Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II