LogFAQs > #978757580

@DnDer - your post

I don't think that call to action will have nearly as much power if Israel stops being the bad guy.

Why would anyone with their basic needs met (plus the basic need of not being genocided) along with having open ports and infrastructure in place want to join a violent and dangerous mission to annihilate someone who has f***ed off and left them alone.

There's no leverage for hamas to use to make that call to action appealing for normal people. They wouldn't exactly be toothless, but a two-state solution with Israel being forced to rebuild what they razed... kicks the feet out from most of hamas's position.

And that begins a radical political sea change away from violence and fundamentalism.

I feel like I already answered that in my previous post:

I don't feel placing trust in Hamas to act in good faith is workable. Because Hamas will literally do anything to prevent losing power - including attacking Israel to provoke a response. We can argue that in their minds they feel they are justified for doing these heinous acts (which is a complex moral philosophical debate in of itself) but if we are being "pragmatic" I just feel the need to reiterate I personally do not think Hamas will go quietly.

To add to that

I feel you put too much emphasis on the aftermath of Gaza being 100% self governing and Israel pulling out completely and completely ignore that with Hamas in place they wont allow that to happen. I dont disagree that in a 100% free Gaza there would be less reason for people to support Hamas. I think where we disagree is despite claiming to be pragmatic you are over simplifying the road in getting there.

I believe Hamas itself will be a roadblock to get to that outcome.

If you feel Im wrong in that fundamental point we may just have to agree to disagree.