LogFAQs > #977744313

agesboy posted...

golden sun dark dawn................................................

Xenoblade X was the first one to come to mind for me, but Dark Dawn is also up there. At least there's some hope for a Xenoblade Y, but I've pretty much given up on Golden Sun at this point.

agesboy posted...

i think if you metagame and beat a fight before you're supposed to (or on ng+), the reward should also be metagame-y like stat boosters or accessories. story concessions should be made if reasonable, but in a LOT of them, they're foundational

It's fun when that happens, but I'd consider that more of an easter egg than something I would ever expect. It kind of hinges on the intended loss being relatively low-stakes so you don't end up undermining the story by removing it. I also very much expect dissonance on NG+, because NG+ is generally meant to be a matter of trivializing the gameplay so you can rush through the story again, so I don't particularly mind it there.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

That doesn't make sense. The two are related.

"Related" doesn't have to mean "perfectly consistent at all times." They should try to be consistent whenever possible, but the occasional failure in that regard isn't the end of the world.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

Frankly, I don't need greater depth.

That's fine. Many would disagree. Deeper stories are great, even if that's not something you particularly value.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

The game I was playing that prompted this was light hearted fun until you autolose in the cutscene, twice, get captured by the bad guy that has no reason to keep you alive, escape, immediately attack the bad guy without any new power ups from when you lost last time, beat him, beat the real final boss in the gemaply, but then lose in the cutscene AGAIN just for the gods to come down and beat it for you. The end. Wtf was I even there for?

That does indeed sound silly. Assuming it is indeed as bad as you're describing and you didn't just miss plot points that made it more justifiable (which seems unlikely because I don't think justifying that final boss nonsense is even possible), it sounds like that was an example of scripted losses done poorly and I'd likely share your frustration in your position.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

We don't actually get the middle ground games I'm fine with, outside of MAYBE atelier games (although the ones I've played still follow this). We either get pokemons level of nonstory or this exact same heroes journey that forces you into a low point, usually due to a loss and capture at around the 60-70% mark.

That's the thing: A story in which nothing ever goes wrong for the protagonist so long as you win every fight is Pokemon levels of non-story. You aren't going to get stories that satisfy your insistence on never having a narrative failure without stripping out so much depth that they stop being interesting. Exceptions are always going to be very rare because it's hard to do anything surprising or compelling with "I win all the time."

YoukaiSlayer posted...

But games ARE.

Right. So test yourself with the game and be rewarded with the story. If you don't like the story you're rewarded with, that's just the nature of surprise rewards like that, so you've just gotta roll with it and let that guide future purchasing decisions (namely, avoid games from franchises that have a history of stories you dislike).