LogFAQs > #975941745

Muscles posted...

So yeah, I think it's perfectly fine to say the way you were born is the way you were meant to be but with some exceptions.

Not really. Starting from the basic premise of "accept people for who they are unless that hurts other people" means not gatekeeping cases in which you're okay with people wanting to change the natural state of their bodies. Your perspective is one of "they have to earn my acceptance and support by falling into a category that I've been convinced deserves special treatment," which is not a perspective that somebody who wants to be a tolerant and accepting person should hold.

Muscles posted...

but there's a reason that the first step in transitioning is talking to a professional

I don't disagree. Pretty much any surgery should be preceded by consultations with appropriate professionals to rule out less invasive alternatives for solving the problem. But, again, there's an important difference between expressing supportive concern that somebody might not have properly considered their decision, and a blanket statement of "however you turned out is how you should be and you're wrong to want to change that." The former accepts that they have a problem they want to solve, and is trying to provide alternatives that might be safer, which is accepting and supportive. The latter starts from the premise that they are wrong to want to change themselves and need to justify the decision to you, which is neither accepting nor supportive.

BlackScythe0 posted...

I don't know how exactly what was obviously a low effort troll post went this direction

Because it's an interesting discussion with differing viewpoints. Low-effort troll posts can sometimes lead to meaningful debate, even if the low-effort troll doesn't end up being a part of it.

BlackScythe0 posted...

this is probably the first time in my life I've ever seen cosmetic surgery be defended this way.

My first reaction was "that's stupid, just accept the height you ended up with instead of resorting to invasive surgery to change it," but then I considered that I'd never say the same thing about gender (since that would make me a transphobic dinglemuffin) and realized that any line I might draw between the two would be completely arbitrary and exist solely for the purpose of letting me ignore my cognitive dissonance. So I changed my mind.

BlackScythe0 posted...

While there are definitely a variety of legitimate cosmetic surgeries (like dealing with excess skin after weight loss) I view the "non-legitimate" ones as predatory.

They can be. Much more so than gender-affirming care, there are absolutely cosmetic procedures out there that exist primarily for the sake of preying on people's insecurities and not to genuinely help. Across the board, I think more people considering cosmetic surgeries should consult a therapist before making that decision to see if they can find a way to feel more comfortable with themselves before taking the plunge on invasive medical interventions (as is typical for dealing with gender dysphoria). Be that as it may, however, virtually all cosmetic procedures can have some therapeutic value, whether we're talking radical skeletal modifications or simply getting your ears pierced. Gatekeeping that is neither helpful nor logically defensible.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Wishing you were taller is not the same as a persons gender identity and I consider it to be transphobia that people are attempting to make this argument.

It's not as big of a deal, I would agree, but they're definitely logically analogous. If you can come up with some way in which they aren't (noting that "height doesn't matter as much as gender" falls into the former category and is also completely subjective), I'm happy to entertain it, but I can't come up with a justifiable way to draw that line. As such, I'm not going to draw it.