LogFAQs > #965723723

ctesjbuvf posted...

If you're scum I'm still buying watcher. I don't know if you did or did not assume Ulti being doctor. But I do know that he seemed like a decent mislynch target until the point when he had claimed. Plus, scum did a fine job not killing the doctor targets. Ulti said he targetted you every night because of how good watcher is. Yet here it still is on the final day. Our tracket's reason for living as long as he did was that his scans were stolen, but you're still here. Does scum really kill Sbell and not you when killing you was the one certain way to not be watched that night? Perhaps they do and Sbell was deemed your least likely watch but it does seem like an unnecessarily risky play.

So your argument is that the scum kept doctor alive because they knew who Ulti would target and went after other people. So if I were scum, I have to ask:

1) How would scum have accurately predicted Ulti's targets? Do any of the scum flips -- Sheep, Ben, Isquen, Lea, and MZero -- know Ulti so well that they could've pinpointed who he would target? When Ulti revealed his night actions, I'm pretty sure everyone was baffled that he didn't protect Death and was insistent on protecting me. Speaking of Death...

2) If I'm not mistaken, Death was killed as soon as he claimed. Ulti was also killed as soon as he claimed. Do you think this is just a coincidence? If scum was trying to keep easy mislynch targets alive, why did Plum die? If scum knew Ulti would protect me, why wasn't a hard-to-mislynch target like Chris killed? Frankly, scum's killing patterns don't make sense, but they were consistent about killing the Cop and Doc as soon as they were revealed.

As for why they killed Sbell, really, I don't know. I'm just as puzzled about that. For what it's worth, Sbell had a town clear scan, and Hb made it clear that I should watch him in case he dies. With Abacus touted as the next lynch option after MZero, killing Sbell eliminates a confirmed townie while leaving Hb wide open for death the next day, as Abacus was clearly going to be lynched. This leaves me (the suspicious Gladiator Watcher without any town clears that can't be spun into scum behavior), you (the other Cop clear), and Chris (who is either bathing in the blood of his allies like a madman or more likely is the town arbiter in this final decision).

It's clear to see that this final three was an intentional setup to cause as much confusion as possible. Is Kirby a scum Watcher? Is Ctes a second Godfather? Is Chris the true mastermind? One of these conclusions goes against our assumptions we made earlier in the game. But now we have far less people to discuss it with and anyone could be a suspect.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Yeah, these are all fine reasons why I didn't go for you yesterday, but it's not like it can't be explained. Isquen didn't use his backup as fast as he could, maybe he still hadn't maybe he wasted it on tracker or something. A lot of this is why I considered a switch or something like that. It's not like it's needed. Redirector could be faked, but it allows me to make more sense of some things. We've already reached the point where the easy solution wasn't the answer, so that's just how it has to be.

Okay, let's humor your "light side converted to the dark side" theory.

First off, what would be the incentive to switch sides? If scum looked like they were gonna win, sure, it makes sense to jump ship at that point.

And if the switching mechanism involves winning a gladiator duel... why on Earth would I use that switch on Day 3, after two scum with powerful roles (or at least in Sheep's case) were just lynched? Why wouldn't I wait to use it later when the odds of scum winning looked better?

Sure, we were wrong about the "easy solution" with Abacus, but that doesn't justify convoluted theories with no solid answers. Again, you could make a theory about Chris being scum and intentionally bussing Sheep and Ben to their deaths, then only killing off the rest of his team when he had no choice but to let them die. Yet you seem to be laser-focused on proving that my claims are the false ones here; you aren't concerned at all that Chris may have been lying to us the entire time. And that speaks millions about your intents today: appealing to a town Chris and using his doubts against me to seal the mislynch and get victory.

ctesjbuvf posted...

It's not only his actions, he was also neighborized by scum and makes bulletproof have a function. He also absolutely would have used poison, I believe. It's a stronger case.

Regardless of what Isquen did or did not do, poison was not backupped, so there's a limit of how much sense we can't find in however it was used. HB targetting the one person that could out scum is probably something they hit their heads with afterward but didn't find likely enough regardless of your alignment. Perhaps this should be looked into more.

Weren't you arguing yesterday that Bulletproof could've been a red herring? And one of my crackpot theories earlier in the game was that Ben and Chris could have faked the entire discussion as scummates. If you're gonna argue that there's no easy solution to this dilemma, then you really shouldn't be giving Chris a free pass, because Chris being town is the easy solution.

I do have a potential theory about why they used a redirect that night instead of poison. If I had watched Death that night, I would have seen Isquen poisoning him. So if later on there was a double-kill, I could make that connection that Death was visited by Isquen and later died.
... Though I guess they weren't afraid of Doctor? Idk, the situation was so ludicrous that it's the sole reason I didn't believe Ulti was actually the Doc. I still heavily disagree that Watcher is better than Cop, but I digress.

In any case, Isquen using his redirect on me is the simple solution here. Yet you're willing to argue about the truth on this despite wholly accepting that Chris is town without any issue. You can't say "there are no easy solutions anymore, and that's just how it has to be" when you are not suspicious of Chris at all while concocting arguments of why I'm a town-turned-scum role without any substantial evidence.