LogFAQs > #965160051

adjl posted...

What you described is toxic masculinity:

Masculinity = The set of gender norms and expectations associated with males and their behaviour
Toxic = Harmful or dangerous (in the context of discussing behaviours)

Toxic + Masculinity = A set of gender norms and expectations associated with males and their behaviour that are harmful or dangerous.

Except it's the creation of the norms and expectations that is toxic, not the person who is masculine, so at the bare minimum that is an extremely inappropriate use of words.

You wouldn't call call rape culture "toxic femininity" when rapists put norms and expectations on women now would you? It's pretty obvious who is the target of that phrasing. It paints the feminine as the problem, which wouldn't be accurate.

adjl posted...

It's not a sexist term, it's simply acknowledging that some things that society promotes as "masculine" are unhealthy. That's how adjectives work. Some things that society promotes as "feminine" are also unhealthy, and could similarly be called "toxic femininity," but those tend to be ideals along the lines of women being subservient, docile, and content to relegate themselves to housewifery, which more commonly just get called "misogyny," so you don't see the term that often.

Interesting that. If it's men it's toxic maleness, if it's women, it's hatred of women. Would it not be more accurate to call toxic masculinity misandry? I believe this disparity of treatment between the genders here is intentional, and is well reflected amongst feminists.

adjl posted...

Those particular averages don't depend on outliers, though the fact that women are all but categorically excluded from becoming outliers is indeed a symptom of the problem.

Indeed they don't, because they aren't quanitfiable terms, nobody has made a claim of what precisely an advantage is or calculated it's frequency in groups. It's a form of pseudo-science, trying to add weight to presumptions without having to back it up.

As soon as actual advantages are brought up, people can argue what they are, so lazy, disingenuous people fall back on to invisible hands like the patriarchy and male privilege. It's unbelievably transparent.

adjl posted...

So call them out for being assholes as is appropriate.

That's the problem, they fall back the same way as you. When someone is a problem it's all men individually, when there's push it's all men as a collective. Duplicitous language is rife with these horribly conflated terms, you can't have an argument with someone who doesn't even stick to a meaning of a term.