LogFAQs > #960874391

Revelation34 posted...

There's no such thing for one. If you do believe it exists then toxic masculinity is the way men actually act, not stigma behind the idea of it.

adjl posted...

Masculinity=The ideals and attitudes defining how men are expected to behave
Toxic masculinity= Ideals for men's behaviour that are harmful or otherwise toxic

It's very simple. This is how every single adjective in the English language works.

Yep.

ReturnOfFa posted...

I believe that there are attributes reinforced in males that are toxic. Obviously not all males are toxic, and obviously females can be toxic too. These 'negative' traits have unfortunately been gendered as masculine, but I believe it still worth addressing.

The fact that they've been gendered as masculine is the core issue here. Fundamentally, toxic masculinity is a matter of encouraging and/or permitting toxic behaviours and attitudes because they've been gendered as "manly," and that justifies them in many people's eyes. That's stupid. Everyone needs to stop doing that. Good and bad behaviours don't need to be gendered at all. People talk about how "toxic masculinity" is such a terrible concept because it punishes men for being assertive and confident, but being assertive and confident are useful traits regardless of how many penises you have. So is having the humility and tact to recognize when what you think is being assertive and confident is actually just ignoring everyone else's ideas and being an asshole, a nuance which "men should be confident and assertive" ignores (which, in turn, is a toxic behaviour).

UnMead posted...

i think its fair that there is plenty of feminine toxicity rampant in society as well. People of all types can be just fucking awful to each other.

It's important to note, however, that "feminine toxicity" does mean "women doing bad things," which is distinct from "toxic femininity." Toxic femininity is more often just called "misogyny" in modern culture, since it entails stuff like "women should just raise their children instead of trying to have careers." There's actually a lot of overlap between toxic masculinity and toxic femininity, such as that example somebody else gave of that nutjob saying "women should stay home with the kids and men should go die in war because they're expendable." Anyone trying to enforce toxic gender roles is generally dipping a little into both pots.

KodyKeir posted...

Maybe we should start calling it Toxic Humanity, and ignored the gender issue entirely.

There's merit in that, but the gendering is actually the bulk of the issue, and addressing the problem has to include recognizing that gendering the behaviours doesn't actually make them any better or worse. I don't know how it could be solved by totally ignoring the gender issue; it's necessary to at least confront how stupid and counterproductive the gendering is.

KodyKeir posted...

Though I am pretty sure modern right wing will still feel personally attacked by the term.

I mean, that's a given. Whatever you call it, the fact remains that trying to address the issue of toxic masculinity means saying that these behaviours that are traditionally considered masculine (to which the modern right tends to cling quite aggressively) are bad and should be avoided by everyone. Conservatives generally don't like being told that they need to change.