LogFAQs > #956378227

Truth_Decay posted...

What makes you think people who suffer want their suffering to end through the means you're proposing? Very arrogant of you to assume your idea is something people need, or even want.

Everyone suffers, this is true. But for many, suffering is a small part of the overall life experience, and suffering is manageable.

Humans are adaptable. For people born into extreme poverty and famine, suffering becomes a part of life, and they find joy and happiness in their experience still. For many people born into seemingly impossible situations, who experience tremendous adversity, they still come away enjoying life. They don't look to throw up the white flag, they look for ways to improve their lives, and the lives of their forebears.

Aside from being incredibly arrogant of you to assume antinatalism is the best choice for ending human suffering, the idea that we should give up and end humanity is beyond ignorant. Every year we inch closer to ending cancer. Someone who isn't born yet could be the key to solving the riddle, and once we discover that cure, think of the countless numbers of people whose suffering - at least in terms of the cancer experience - will end. And that's one facet of suffering. You're proposing throwing in the towel. Future generations could solve so many issues that we face as a species, as well as issues that that have a negative effect on societies, environment, animal welfare, etc etc.

We should strive to improve upon each generation. Can we ever achieve a life without *any* suffering? Absolutely not. But many, and I'd hedge a bet that it's a vast majority, would choose to push forward and make incremental progress, rather than give in and wait for death.

You, like so many others before you show a basic misunderstanding about what anti-natalism is. Here's a hint, it's in the name, natal as in birth. You're talking about currently living humans, I'm talking about potential humans, two different subjects. Also I've never claimed my philosophy was something anyone needed or (directly) wanted, pretty arrogant of you to put words in my mouth. I'm simply pointing out that it is the morally correct thing thing to do.

This reeks of first world privilege. How many times a week do you go to sleep hungry? Thirsty? In pain? In fear? Really now.

Alright let me ask you, would you be fine switching places with someone in extreme poverty in a famine? I mean you're effectively claiming that one can't assess one's situation by any objective metric and suffering is 100% perception. What about if you were trapped in someone's basement torture and rape dungeon? I mean you could just adapt right? Find joy in being fed day old table scraps instead of week old ones right? That line of thinking also lays the blame of anyone who feels that they are suffering on themselves. If someone loses their legs in an accident and feels bad about it they should just adapt and get over it, they're choosing to feel bad about it by your logic. That totally isn't a disgusting and insulting way to think on your part.

The ONLY choice for ending human suffering is human extinction, literally nothing else would work. This isn't a matter of opinion, this is an outright, undeniable fact. As long as humans exist human suffering will exist. Anti-natalism is the least violent and least invasive method I can think of, there is no Infinity Gauntlet laying around that would let someone snap their fingers and bring it about instantly and painlessly. You point about a potential person curing cancer is irrelevant, if there are no humans in existence than there will be no human cancer to be cured, why bring millions if not billions of children into the world, all of whom are GUARANTEED to suffer, on a gamble that one of them might solve a problem that only exists because people are cruel enough to keep breeding in the first place? The very reason humans are animate in the first place is because of our problems. Every single action undertaken by any human is a striving to fulfill a desire, to meet a need, this "want" is inseparable from humanity.

Progress towards WHAT? You ignored my questions on that matter (and the other one) so I ask you directly to address them now, go on.