LogFAQs > #955672224

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

But Im not even talking about overcoming GOP obstruction, at least not in the short term, Im talking explicitly about not letting the GOP take total control, at which point nothing from 2016-2024 has mattered at all!

...But how does this change in Earth-3 where Sanders beats Clinton and Trump in 2016?

If the GOP still holds the Senate, Sanders can't really advance much of an agenda over McConnell. Your answer thus far, as far as I can tell, is that Sanders would be calling them out... but what in the world makes you think that would change anything? The GOP won't budge and there is no reason to believe that it would trigger a historically unprecedented gain in the 2018 midterms. (As you'll recall this has been my long standing criticism of Sanders. Obviously I love most of his policy ideas but his plan to get there has never seemed realistic. It's always hinged on some massive surge of voters from the abyss to either pressure the GOP into submission (lol) or sweep them out of office.) Now, I'm admittedly cheating a bit by switching back to Earth-1 for a moment here but this strategy couldn't even sweep Biden out of a primary that should theoretically be a friendly pool for him than the general electorate against an allegedly stupid and incompetent Democratic Party. So I'm willing to enter that into circumstantial evidence that we're probably not looking at some midterm takeover in 2018 because the general electorate is outraged at GOP obstructionism.

...So, in terms of actual results how is this hypothetical timeline different than the one we're currently in? Like maybe there's the feel-good self satisfaction that Sanders is calling out the GOP from behind the seal of POTUS but if it isn't translating into actual legislation how is it forestalling the GOP's erosion of small-d democracy?

I'm genuinely asking, what exactly would be different here in terms of achieving actual legislation? Are Dems winning the midterms in 2018? By enough to overcome the Manchin types? Is he flipping Manchin? How - you think public pressure flips him? Why? If not then how are passing any of the necessary electoral reforms to prevent the GOP from implementing the shit they've been doing for years, decades before all this. It's not like it started with Trump.

Like I get the impression that you think we only crossed the point of no return recently. In reality, we probably passed it in 2014 but you can just as easily argue 2010, 2000, 1980, or further back. Biden winning in a landslide that got us 52+ in the Senate was basically the full court heave at the buzzer that could have sent us into OT (not even win the game, just stay alive!) and we missed.

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