LogFAQs > #953283325

I was going to say something in the last topic when you mentioned that point, but I was busy and by the time I was available, it felt like it wouldn't benefit the conversation. But now I've gotta add one thing here.

You've mentioned multiple times that the "Right" doesn't consider backlash, and that's true. However, the Right doesn't really experience "backlash". They might not win every time, but Trump won in 2016, the GOP picked up seats in the Senate in 2018, Trump managed to get 74 million votes in 2020/the GOP cut their House minority down to single digits/they held the Senate to a 50-50 split. The GOP, regardless of how heinous or awful they are, are always two years (at most) away from controlling our government, given that their only goal is to ensure nothing changes or works in our political system. They are regularly rewarded for their behavior because their voters are cultist-level of devoted, while the opposition VOTERS (not the politicians, but the VOTERS THEMSELVES) are not. And thus, we get fucked time and time again.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if you want Democratic politicians to play politics like Republican politicians, then Democratic VOTERS need to VOTE like Republican voters. As it stands, when Democratic politicians attempt to play politics like Republicans, they get kneecapped on two fronts. From the fiscally-conservative majority (their moderate base), the voters feel like the politicians are no longer representing them and both parties have moved to the extremes and left them behind. From the progressive left (a minority, but still sizable portion of the party), they nitpick and complain about the policy not being good enough, and then subsequently don't turn out to vote. So, then the Dems lose for trying to push progressive policies (even if they're not as "extreme" as you'd like them to be"), and the government pushes further to the right by rewarding the GOP. Moving forward from there, the Dems get gunshy again, because they have no reason to believe that even moderately-progressive policies are what their voters actually want.

I'm not going to put words into Red's mouth and try to interpret Red's argument, but it's not dissimilar from my own, so I'll say this is me speaking. Slightly less than half this country gladly and fervently supports the GOP. This is not about appealing to them (aside from MAYBE depressing their turnout by limiting the irrational fear they feel about a Democratic government), but rather acknowledging that anyone to the left of the current GOP base (so moderate Republicans, centrist Democrats, and progressives, among other groups) has an uphill battle to maintain any sort of power to affect change and enact policy.

From my perspective, seeing a lot of progressive voices online, they often come across as very standoffish and arrogant. Policy discussions often just turn into "Just do it. The Dems should just do X, Y, and Z. A, B and C aren't good enough. X, Y and Z would be so simple." There's this mindset presented that progressives are just so smart and understand everything, and everyone should just go along with whatever they want, because they're just so much smarter than most people and it's for the unwashed masses' own good. Hell, look at this message you posted in this very topic:

"**I firmly believe there are more people that support those ideas than don't, but the apathy and media propaganda is strong enough to prevent them from coming together. My evidence is all the people in the Primary who said "Yeah I like everything Bernie stands for, but I think we need Joe to win"."

To you, it couldn't possibly be that people just wanted Joe Biden more than Bernie. No, it had to be this mindset of "Bernie can't win, and I want to vote for a winner." It's infuriating, because it feels like you're actively going out of your way to avoid ever formulating a winning strategy. Your constant refrain is "We're right, but the system/the media/the establishment screw us over." It couldn't possibly be that your ideas aren't nearly as popular as you believe them to be, and you do a poor job of marketing them to the moderate majority of the party, who need to be onboard since they outnumber you. Nope, you're doing NOTHING wrong, and it's just inevitable that you're gonna get screwed over by forces beyond your control.

This brings me back to the politicians vs. voters point. Republican politicians can do whatever they want, whenever they want, because their voters will never punish them for that. If you want progressive policies pushed by the Democrats, then progressives need to turn out with the same cult-like devotion that the GOP gets every election. Right now, moderates are reliable for the Democrats, so they get catered to. And the party goes out of their way to push policy that is moderately progressive, but not so much so as to make those voters think the party has abandoned them. Meanwhile, it seems like progressives only ever want to kneecap the Democrats by saying their policies aren't good enough (when the only other option wants to reverse any and all progressive wins of the past century), while subsequently not turning out to vote, even when they have their preferred candidate (Bernie in two primaries) on the ballot. That's the message they're getting from progressives as it stands: that you want the party to cater to you instead of their base, without reliably supporting them and giving them a reason to think progressive policies might actually be popular.

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