LogFAQs > #922533049

Paragon21XX posted...

Firewerx posted...

Paragon21XX posted...

Every country has a right to exist until conquered by a stronger force.

Here's the thing about uncritical supporters of the Zionist position, though. With one move, they'll play the "Right of Conquest" card: insisting that Israel has fully won the right to its territory through force of arms. Then from the bottom of the deck, they'll suddenly pull the "Right of Conquered Nations" card: insisting that Jews always retained a rightful claim to a state there despite the Jewish kingdoms having been conquered over two thousand years ago.

So it seems that for Zionists, there's such a thing as a "right of conquest" when it's convenient for Israel's interests, yet there's no such thing as a "right of conquest" if it's seen to work against Jewish nationalism. Come on guys, enough of the doublethink.

You accuse us of doublethink? Need I remind you of many of the posts in this topic ("I'm not antisemitic but I hate Zionists, and their illegitimate nation should be eradicated")?

Yes, I'm accusing Zionists of doublethink when they adopt mutually contradictory positions and emphasize whichever one is the more convenient for their argument depending on the circumstances. You can't have it both ways. If the Palestinian claim to statehood is illegitimate because whatever Israel wins, Israel has the right to keep and the losers should suck it up and resign themselves to defeat, then Zionist dreamers were wrong to insist that Jews should continue to fight for their inalienable and eternal right to a state that they lost thousands of years ago.

The right of Israeli Jews to live in the state of Israel -- and Israel has to be dealt with as an established fact -- has nothing whatsoever to do with Jewish kingdoms having once existed there three thousand years ago. We can't start redrawing modern maps on the basis of who once lived where a couple of millennia in the past. The descendants of the Lombards in today's northern Italy have no "right" to reclaim their 4th century ancestral lands in eastern Germany and demand their own state there. Northumbria, Yorkshire and East Anglia in England do not rightfully belong to the Danes. The plantation of Ulster and the dispossession of the Catholic Irish wasn't justified because Protestant lowland Scots settlers were descended from the original Ulaid who'd migrated across the Irish Sea a thousand years before. No, Israeli Jews have the right to live in the state of Israel because, quite simply, generations of Israeli Jews have been born there since its establishment and thus there is nowhere for them to "return" to. Let's just not have any more tragic population upheavals, on either side.

But that doesn't mean "whatever Israel wants, Israel should get". And it doesn't mean that Palestinian opposition to the Zionist colonization project during the Mandate was any less legitimate than indigenous resistance against other European colonial-settler movements in Africa and Asia at the time, like the French pieds noir in Algeria or the white British settlers in Southern Rhodesia. We need to put the history behind us, but that doesn't mean denying it.
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texty bastard