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Topic	Politics Containment Topic 209: Lord of the Lies
Nelson_Mandela 12/08/18 10:24:22 AM #312:	Umitencho posted... red sox 777 posted... I still don't understand why it matters if they worked with Russia. Our politicians work with Israel, Saudi Arabia, the United Kingdom, etc. daily. We are not at war with Russia. Maybe the best ending to this is the Supreme Court finds that our laws against foreign collusion are unconstitutional for violating the 1st Amendment for freedom of association and freedom of speech. They already said money is speech, right? Colluding with Foreign Nations to manipulate the outcome of the American elections is illegal. We aren't talking about simple statements of giving a candidate vocal support, we are talking about hacking opposition communications, ect. As far as the money goes, the money is meant to come from American citizens, when you have a foreign nation pouring in lots of money into a candidate's election, there is a chance he isn't even thinking about the constituents who aligns with their views let alone the nation that they have to govern as a whole. If you are ok with another nation having a bigger voice in America's domestic policy than the citizenry, and ok with opposition candidates being hacked by foreign nations(sorry no amount of cash is gonna protect a candidate from state sponsored hacking from nations like Russia) then I have nothing to say. Also, you might want to research the Supreme Court a bit. As much as they have expanded the 1st Amendment, they have put limitations on it. Nelson_Mandela posted... LapisLazuli posted... I will correct you. I'm not even kidding. Please point me to anything implicating Russian collusion. I am only seeing the campaign finance stuff on Twitter. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/special-counsel-mueller-filing-russia-reached-trump-campaign-59689583 That's not collusion though. Collusion is willfully working with a foreign government to influence the election. I get that Trump likely committed a crime by violating campaign finance laws, but I've yet to see anything to show that he (directly or by giving orders to Manafort) was colluding with Russia. And if the biggest thing that comes out of this is that he used campaign money as hush money for women trying to blackmail him without disclosure (which is really what makes it illegal), then I think that is a gray area at best. One could make the argument that you cannot disclose those payments without in a sense exposing yourself to their extortive purposes. I dunno man, it seems like all they really have on him is a technicality of violating a law that seems borderline unconstitutional in the first place. --- "A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25 "Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso <cite>Nelson_Mandela posted [p:913766329] in Politics C... [t:77254277]...</cite> <quote><cite>Umitencho posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>I still don't understand why it matters if they worked with Russia. Our politicians work with Israel, Saudi Arabia, the United Kingdom, etc. daily. We are not at war with Russia. Maybe the best ending to this is the Supreme Court finds that our laws against foreign collusion are unconstitutional for violating the 1st Amendment for freedom of association and freedom of speech. They already said money is speech, right?</quote> Colluding with Foreign Nations to manipulate the outcome of the American elections is illegal. We aren't talking about simple statements of giving a candidate vocal support, we are talking about hacking opposition communications, ect. As far as the money goes, the money is meant to come from American citizens, when you have a foreign nation pouring in lots of money into a candidate's election, there is a chance he isn't even thinking about the constituents who aligns with their views let alone the nation that they have to govern as a whole. If you are ok with another nation having a bigger voice in America's domestic policy than the citizenry, and ok with opposition candidates being hacked by foreign nations(sorry no amount of cash is gonna protect a candidate from state sponsored hacking from nations like Russia) then I have nothing to say. Also, you might want to research the Supreme Court a bit. As much as they have expanded the 1st Amendment, they have put limitations on it. <cite>Nelson_Mandela posted...</cite> <quote><cite>LapisLazuli posted...</cite> <quote>I will correct you.</quote> I'm not even kidding. Please point me to anything implicating Russian collusion. I am only seeing the campaign finance stuff on Twitter.</quote> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/special-counsel-mueller-filing-russia-reached-trump-campaign-59689583</quote> That's not collusion though. Collusion is willfully working with a foreign government to influence the election. I get that Trump likely committed a crime by violating campaign finance laws, but I've yet to see anything to show that he (directly or by giving orders to Manafort) was colluding with Russia. And if the biggest thing that comes out of this is that he used campaign money as hush money for women trying to blackmail him without disclosure (which is really what makes it illegal), then I think that is a gray area at best. One could make the argument that you cannot disclose those payments without in a sense exposing yourself to their extortive purposes. I dunno man, it seems like all they really have on him is a technicality of violating a law that seems borderline unconstitutional in the first place. --- "A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25 "Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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